Gun control / Anti gun control

[TechLady]

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Are you freaking kidding me! How can you possible "laugh" at a situation like this.

I've been trying to lay low on this thread, but if you find these situations funny, you're one sick individual.

I was laughing at his ironic statement about it, dude.

 

[gunslinger]

Again the problem is you are never going to be able to pass enough laws to make criminals obey them. Its simply flawed logic. As for enforcing the ones we have, I have a better idea. How about we make it less difficult for honest decent people to have a means of protecting themselves and when someone does commit a crime such as murder with a firearm execute them quickly and efficiently instead of paying the $30,000 per year it takes tax payers to keep them in prison.


Guns are completely illegal in some countries yet criminals still get them there. How is that posible? By pro-gun control logic this should not be posible. The reason? CRIMINALS DO NOT OBEY LAWS! You can't pass enough laws to make people stop committing crimes. What you can do is pass enough laws we can all be criminals.

 

[ElementalWindX]

I love this forum. I use to think I was just the only opinionated tech, but as I meet more and more I learn that it seems to be a correlation between techs and opinionated people.

Best part of all, you guys are all SO passionate about YOUR own opinion on things.


God I'm just sitting here poping popcorn in the hospital cracking up and my girl is just looking at me like what are you laughing about?

 

[TechLady]

Hey! Let's play a game! Guess who said this a few days ago:

"In fact, let's be clear about Newtown: the killer had no criminal record so he would never have shown up on a background check. All of the guns he used were legally purchased. None fit the legal description of an "assault" weapon. The killer seemed to have mental problems and his mother had him seek help, but that was worthless. As for security measures, the Sandy Hook school was locked down and buttoned up BEFORE the killer showed up that morning. Drills had been held for just such an incident. A lot of good that did.

And here's the dirty little fact none of us want to discuss: The killer only ceased his slaughter when he saw that cops were swarming onto the school grounds -- i.e, the men with the guns. When he saw the guns a-coming, he stopped the bloodshed and killed himself. Guns on police officers prevented another 20 or 40 or 100 deaths from happening. Guns sometimes work. (Then again, there was an armed deputy sheriff at Columbine High School the day of that massacre and he couldn't/didn't stop it.)"

No Googling, you have to give it your best guess.

 

[angry_geek]

It doesn't matter how many links are posted, how many quotes are copied, or how many insults are hurled. There is no way guns will be outlawed in this country any time soon. In order to do so, there would have to be a constitutional amendment. That would require a super-majority vote by both houses and then a ratification by 75% of the states. Nowhere in US law or the constitution is the president given any role in changes to the constitution, for good reason.

Several people keep screaming about "assault weapons". The guns you are referring to simply look like assault rifles. It's a bit like the Mitsubishi 3000 GT. It may look like a Ferrari, but it definitely is not. The weapons you want to ban are no more or less dangerous than any other firearms. It all depends on who is wielding it. You can ban this type of weapon along with pistols. It still won't matter on the south side of Chicago or in south-central LA.

You see, the gang-bangers and drug dealers there don't care what laws they're breaking. They don't care if a certain type of weapon is outlawed. They don't care about waiting periods or FBI background checks. They know they are breaking the law each time they illegally carry a gun out of the house, each time they use it to rob a convenience store, each time they use it to kill an innocent person or another gang-banger. So, please, tell me: How are more restrictive gun laws going to prevent these animals from packing heat?

You think more laws will prevent massacres like Columbine and Newtown. The news media made it very clear that Harris and Klebold committed many felony weapons violations, both state and federal. Would one more law have made them suddenly stop?

Then there's the mental health issue. I agree something needs to be done about the mental health system. Throughout history, mental illness has been ignored or relegated to the outskirts of society. However, how is it possible to make sure every sociopath and psychopath is kept safely away from the populace? Some of the measures being suggested in the media truly frighten me. Teachers are not psychiatrists, yet it's being suggested that teachers and schools have more power to not only diagnose kids, but have them removed from schools and put into treatment. This reminds me of the ADHD insanity that's been around the last 25 years or so. Any time a kid is a little rambunctious or doesn't pay attention in school, the teachers and administrations are forcing parents to put the kid on medication. I can only imagine what would happen if a school says to a parent they believe the kid is showing anti-social tendencies and then mandate the parents to get a psychiatric evaluation for the kid. Where does it end? Something akin to the Salem witch trials, I would imagine.

I'll finish now with a question I've been wondering about for some time: If certain civilians, say commercial airline pilots, were allowed, or even required, to carry a sidearm, how different would the world be today?

 

[TechLady]

Tsk, tsk. You didn't even try.

 

[gunslinger]

And here's the dirty little fact none of us want to discuss: The killer only ceased his slaughter when he saw that cops were swarming onto the school grounds -- i.e, the men with the guns. When he saw the guns a-coming, he stopped the bloodshed and killed himself. Guns on police officers prevented another 20 or 40 or 100 deaths from happening. Guns sometimes work. (Then again, there was an armed deputy sheriff at Columbine High School the day of that massacre and he couldn't/didn't stop it.)"

This is what I have been saying. Guns on police officers prevented another 20 or 40 or 100 deaths from happening. Guns on admin and staff at the school could have prevented even one. At Columbine police were told to stand down for several mins while the shooters did what they did. No explanation was given.


@angry_geek

You are 100% correct about the term "assault weapons". This is a made up term used by the liberal media. I also agree with you about the mental health issue. Where I disagree is on the total gun ban. Its already happened a few times in the US. Remember hurricane katrina? The people were disarmed by the police and military going door to door. They stood there and took it. All the pres has to have is a large enough disaster and he can declare martial law. Plus due to enough "crime bills" getting passed its not like by the time they do this the people would have anything to fight back with anyway.

 

[TechLady]

This is what I have been saying. Guns on police officers prevented another 20 or 40 or 100 deaths from happening. Guns on admin and staff at the school could have prevented even one. At Columbine police were told to stand down for several mins while the shooters did what they did. No explanation was given.

Still no guesses...? Really?

 

[HFultzjr]

Some interesting reading for those with an open mind.......



http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-si...-blog-psych-drugs-not-guns-doing-the-killing/

 

[gunslinger]

Some interesting reading for those with an open mind.......



http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-si...-blog-psych-drugs-not-guns-doing-the-killing/

Nice find.............

 

[HFultzjr]

Nice find.............

Certainly worth exploring in my opinion.

 

[TechLady]

Hey! Let's play a game! Guess who said this a few days ago:

"In fact, let's be clear about Newtown: the killer had no criminal record so he would never have shown up on a background check. All of the guns he used were legally purchased. None fit the legal description of an "assault" weapon. The killer seemed to have mental problems and his mother had him seek help, but that was worthless. As for security measures, the Sandy Hook school was locked down and buttoned up BEFORE the killer showed up that morning. Drills had been held for just such an incident. A lot of good that did.

And here's the dirty little fact none of us want to discuss: The killer only ceased his slaughter when he saw that cops were swarming onto the school grounds -- i.e, the men with the guns. When he saw the guns a-coming, he stopped the bloodshed and killed himself. Guns on police officers prevented another 20 or 40 or 100 deaths from happening. Guns sometimes work. (Then again, there was an armed deputy sheriff at Columbine High School the day of that massacre and he couldn't/didn't stop it.)"

No Googling, you have to give it your best guess.

The correct answer is...MICHAEL MOORE

 

[oldtech]

Some interesting facts:

Washington DC - -According to the FBI annual crime statistics, the number of murders committed annually with hammers and clubs far outnumbers the number of murders committed with a rifle.

This is an interesting fact, particularly amid the Democrats’ feverish push to ban many different rifles, ostensibly to keep us safe of course.

However, it appears the zeal of Sens. like Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Joe Manchin (D-WV) is misdirected. For in looking at the FBI numbers from 2005 to 2011, the number of murders by hammers and clubs consistently exceeds the number of murders committed with a rifle.

Think about it: In 2005, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 445, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 605. In 2006, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 438, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 618.

And so the list goes, with the actual numbers changing somewhat from year to year, yet the fact that more people are killed with blunt objects each year remains constant.

For example, in 2011, there was 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs.

While the FBI makes is clear that some of the “murder by rifle” numbers could be adjusted up slightly, when you take into account murders with non-categorized types of guns, it does not change the fact that their annual reports consistently show more lives are taken each year with these blunt objects than are taken with Feinstein’s dreaded rifle.

Another interesting fact: According to the FBI, nearly twice as many people are killed by hands and fists each year than are killed by murderers who use rifles.

The bottom line: A rifle ban is as illogical as it is unconstitutional. We face far greater danger from individuals armed with carpenters’ tools and a caveman’s stick.

 

[MobileTechie]

Obviously. Blunt instruments are everywhere and cannot be banned because they are required constantly in normal, daily living.

 

[mraikes]

...lots of good stuff snipped . . .

Another interesting fact: According to the FBI, nearly twice as many people are killed by hands and fists each year than are killed by murderers who use rifles.

...snipped...

Now this worries me. Everyone I know has hands and sometimes fists. I'm going to immediately write my congressman about requiring everyone to wear big inflatable gloves everywhere but in the bathroom.

If it saves just one life . . .

 

[Cybjun]

I dont know all the ins and outs of American gun laws so I wont be able to contribute this this thread in the ways the others can, but one thing I can say is the way the US goes about publicizing these shootings. The American media go about it completely the wrong way.

Of course the media needs to cover an event like this, but they tend to make the shooter famous. We know the names of these people and we know what they look like. It makes shooting up a school more appealing. Obviously these shooters are already really disturbed and are probably at the point of committing suicide. But why not go down famous and shooting?

In Australia back in 1996 we had a shooter kill 35, injure 21 with an AR-15 and a L1A1. Of course the media covered the shooting, but they rarely said the name of the shooter. They just referred to them as "the shooter" which denied him of his "fame".

I would like to see the American media do more of this.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I can't say that I grew up around guns but I will say I live in southern california, LA county which as pretty strick laws regarding handguns yet I still remember my freshman year of high school the school did a backpack check and they found 26 handguns.

Laws will not change anything and letting fear drive legislation is only asking for problems. I can understand the desire to try to make something good out of a tradegy but to me thats worse than doing nothing. Politicians trying to exploit a tragedy is as offensive as the tragedy itself and so are people that take their time to attack others using a tragedy as to support their position.

 

[TechLady]

Some interesting facts...

I would be interested in seeing precisely where these facts came from, with sources/links.

 

[AlaDes]

Some interesting facts:

Washington DC - -According to the FBI annual crime statistics, the number of murders committed annually with hammers and clubs far outnumbers the number of murders committed with a rifle.

This is an interesting fact, particularly amid the Democrats’ feverish push to ban many different rifles, ostensibly to keep us safe of course.

However, it appears the zeal of Sens. like Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Joe Manchin (D-WV) is misdirected. For in looking at the FBI numbers from 2005 to 2011, the number of murders by hammers and clubs consistently exceeds the number of murders committed with a rifle.

Think about it: In 2005, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 445, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 605. In 2006, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 438, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 618.

And so the list goes, with the actual numbers changing somewhat from year to year, yet the fact that more people are killed with blunt objects each year remains constant.

For example, in 2011, there was 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs.

While the FBI makes is clear that some of the “murder by rifle” numbers could be adjusted up slightly, when you take into account murders with non-categorized types of guns, it does not change the fact that their annual reports consistently show more lives are taken each year with these blunt objects than are taken with Feinstein’s dreaded rifle.

Another interesting fact: According to the FBI, nearly twice as many people are killed by hands and fists each year than are killed by murderers who use rifles.

The bottom line: A rifle ban is as illogical as it is unconstitutional. We face far greater danger from individuals armed with carpenters’ tools and a caveman’s stick.

Don't forget about drunk driving and how many people are killed as a result of it, in comparison to all the intentional murders combined.

What I am saying is that regardless of how many laws you make regarding criminal activity, there will ALWAYS be people who choose to break those laws, regardless of the consequences.

I know I'm going to catch a lot of flack for stating my opinion, but I feel that the increase of our nation's violence has allot to do with how the government interferes with us raising our children these days. Granted, not all of it can be blamed on the government, as there are also allot of irresponsible parents that don't teach their children to behave. I feel that a good old fashioned spanking never hurt anybody; Goodness knows, the thought of one definitely kept me out of trouble more times than I can count.

IMO, I don't think we need more laws, I think we need to enforce the ones we already have, instead of slapping the criminals on the hand and saying, "don't do it again, or else!". Or else what? You get another slap on the hand?

My wife and I just had some inherited guns stolen in October by a drug addict who was given probation (shortly before the theft) after being found guilty of drug trafficking. Part of her agreement and probation was that she had to remain clean. This young woman hasn't passed a drug test since her probation has begun and has admitted to our very own police department that she's still using. She even went as far as showing the prosecuting attorney her recent track marks, shortly after she was released on bond for being arrested in connection to our stolen guns! Point being here is...this young woman's probation has been broken many times and yet she is still free to do as she pleases. She has never spent one day in jail for anything she has done. As a matter of fact, she was released on bond within minutes of her arrest pertaining to the stolen guns.

 

[oldtech]

I would be interested in seeing precisely where these facts came from, with sources/links.

Not sure if this is precise enough for you but I'll give it a shot: All of the data is from the FBI.

BTW the data also shows that the homicide rate is dropping from year to year which interestingly enough coincides with the expansion of concealed carry laws.

and here's a link in case you are short on time

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc.../crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls

inconvenient truths indeed...

 

[HFultzjr]

Not sure if this is precise enough for you but I'll give it a shot: All of the data is from the FBI.

BTW the data also shows that the homicide rate is dropping from year to year which interestingly enough coincides with the expansion of concealed carry laws.

and here's a link in case you are short on time

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc.../crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls

inconvenient truths indeed...

I really don't want to fan the flames again,

But here goes............

For those that want to view........
Here is an interesting video WITH STATISTICS, that can be verified.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ooa98FHuaU0

Enjoy!