Gun control / Anti gun control

[Rocco]

While we're throwing YouTube videos around as a "source," here then: http://youtu.be/8QjZY3WiO9s

I know, more liberuh propoganduh. Save your breath. (No, really).

However, you may like this. I disagree with most of it, but:

"A balanced approach to gun control in the United States would require the warring sides to agree on several contentious issues. Conservative gun-rights advocates should acknowledge that if more states had stringent universal background checks—or if a federal law put these in place—more guns would be kept out of the hands of criminals and the dangerously mentally unstable. They should also acknowledge that requiring background checks on buyers at gun shows would not represent a threat to the Constitution. “The NRA position on this is a fiction,” says Dan Gross, the head of the Brady Campaign. “Universal background checks are not an infringement on our Second Amendment rights. This is black-helicopter stuff.” Gross believes that closing the gun-show loophole would be both extremely effective and a politically moderate and achievable goal. The gun lobby must also agree that concealed-carry permits should be granted only to people who pass rigorous criminal checks, as well as thorough training-and-safety courses."​

As much as I hate most gun control suggestions, I strongly believe that gun shows should require a background check be done, persuant to state law. They may not sell as much, but pre-registration/background check BEFORE the show started would alleviate some of that. When I say state law, I want to still be able to produce my concealed carry permit and walk out with whatever gun I wish, just as I can at ANY place that sells guns in Wyoming. (Note, if I go to Colorado, I still have the waiting period.)

As I said in the first post, I teach courses on CC. However, when I carry, I carry openly. It is right there on my hip where the whole world can see it. A lot of people in Wyoming open carry. I think open carry is a lot more of a deterrent to crime than concealed carry is. If you are a criminal (even most crazies), if you looked around and saw 10 people with holsters, would you rather attack there, or where there are no visible guns? A point somebody brought up earlier, that goes with this is, how many mass gun shootings have happened at a police station?

I still strongly believe in the right to carry. However, I believe strongly that anyone who owns a gun needs to have good training. Safety. If you are required to attend anger management class for any reason, you should lose the right to carry. I also think a psychologist should be able to, and required to, submit that you have mental problems to the state. Let that decision be appeal-able to the state medical board. If a psychologist is found to be reporting a lot of false positives because of political, and not true concern for the people, then let him lose his license.

But require training to own a gun. If you have a child, they should be learning basic gun safety at age 5, whether you own a gun or not. My guns are locked up. I cannot promise that every house my daughter goes to the guns will be locked up. I want her to know what to do in that situation. (One of her friends, she is no longer allowed to go over there because she said they had a gun on their kitchen table. When I asked the dad, he said yes, it is loaded, and they do not own anything to lock it up... He should lose custody, or at the very least, the right to own a gun.) If some child who knew nothing about guns saw that, can you imagine the horrors that could have resulted? That is enough to give me nightmares.

Edit: OK, it does happen, lol, but umm, not successfully....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/11/suspect-dead-officer-wounded-in-shooting-at-michigan-police-station/

http://www.rightwingnews.com/videos/detroit-police-station-shooting-video-shows-bravery-was-on-duty/

Now imagine taking the guns away from those cops. How many would have survived then? Would he have been stopped?

 

[NETWizz]

That video is inaccurate because that student is new, the students in his class ARE cops, and they know who has the gun. In the real world, I would be the ONLY person in that whole room who knew I had a gun!

Open Carry is great; in fact, I wish it was legal in SC. I would support it.

That said, I would NOT personally Open Carry unless on-duty as a Law Enforcement Officer or Security Guard, or at a Gun Club, or other function where it is "normal."

I am NOT going to walk the dogs, pump gas, go grocery shopping... with a gun on my belt out in the open.

1. It will necessarily scare the **** out of people, and I don't want to do that even though I know in places like Wyoming that would be THEIR problem because your rights trump their feelings.

2. I don't want people to think I am a gun nut... just a reasonable guy. I don't mind that they know I like guns, or to go to the range with friends, but I don't want to come across as crazy.

3. Don't want to draw police attention by having people call 911 to report me doing something totally legal. Not fair to the police to have to come investigate.

4. It is NOT necessarily the best way to support your Second Amendment Right


5. I am NOT nearly as interested in deterring crime as I am in assuring the safety of myself and others. If I am at a gas station and had a gun open carried; everyone would think I am a cop and nobody would steal an Icee or soda, so it WOULD work as a deterrent. That said, it is MUCH more important to me to be the only person to know I have a gun... Open Carrying Makes you Target #1. If a gunman robs a gas station and you are in the back shopping with 8 or 9 other people for Candy and Soda with your back turned but he sees only you have a gun... Who do you think gets shot in the back? In contrast, if there are 8 or 9 shoppers and it is a routine robbery, he probably has no reason to shoot you vs. somebody else. If motivation is money (usually it is in a robbery) chances are the criminal probably won't shoot... He would more likely take the money as fast a he can and run... and to be honest I don't really feel bad for an oil company that looses a few hundred to a few thousand dollars... I am pretty much indifferent.

 

[Rocco]

That video is inaccurate because that student is new, the students in his class ARE cops, and they know who has the gun. In the real world, I would be the ONLY person in that whole room who knew I had a gun!

Open Carry is great; in fact, I wish it was legal in SC. I would support it.

That said, I would NOT personally Open Carry unless on-duty as a Law Enforcement Officer or Security Guard, or at a Gun Club, or other function where it is "normal."

I am NOT going to walk the dogs, pump gas, go grocery shopping... with a gun on my belt out in the open.

1. It will necessarily scare the **** out of people, and I don't want to do that even though I know in places like Wyoming that would be THEIR problem because your rights trump their feelings.

2. I don't want people to think I am a gun nut... just a reasonable guy. I don't mind that they know I like guns, or to go to the range with friends, but I don't want to come across as crazy.

3. Don't want to draw police attention by having people call 911 to report me doing something totally legal. Not fair to the police to have to come investigate.

4. It is NOT necessarily the best way to support your Second Amendment Right


5. I am NOT nearly as interested in deterring crime as I am in assuring the safety of myself and others. If I am at a gas station and had a gun open carried; everyone would think I am a cop and nobody would steal an Icee or soda, so it WOULD work as a deterrent. That said, it is MUCH more important to me to be the only person to know I have a gun... Open Carrying Makes you Target #1. If a gunman robs a gas station and you are in the back shopping with 8 or 9 other people for Candy and Soda with your back turned but he sees only you have a gun... Who do you think gets shot in the back? In contrast, if there are 8 or 9 shoppers and it is a routine robbery, he probably has no reason to shoot you vs. somebody else. If motivation is money (usually it is in a robbery) chances are the criminal probably won't shoot... He would more likely take the money as fast a he can and run... and to be honest I don't really feel bad for an oil company that looses a few hundred to a few thousand dollars... I am pretty much indifferent.

I guess maybe it is the mentality thing. Here, if you walk into a grocery store with 8 people in it, half of them will be carrying. Some open, some concealed. I have NEVER had someone complain or act scared because they saw my gun. (Well, OK, when I was military and we were deploying on civilian aircraft, I carried my M-14A onto the aircraft through the airport terminal with me. Some flyers were uh, reluctant, LOL.)

Guns are a fact of life here. Again, I have NEVER heard someone complain about it. I may not be as proficient as some, but I spend at least an hour and 200 rounds every week at the range shooting. I hit that 100 yard target with a 50 yard gun 8 out of 10 times. (I would never try to hit someone at 100 yards away with a pistol. Who would do that?)

So to me, if someone is afraid because they see my gun safely holstered on my hip, then yes, as you say it, it is their problem. I have never seen the police called for a weapon in an authorized place. I have boycotted businesses for banning guns. We even put a restaurant out of business because people refused to eat there. I have never worn a gun to a place who bans them though. A business has a right to dictate whether or not you can have a gun in their place of business, just as I have a right not to go there. I believe anyone who takes a gun anywhere that it is not allowed should be prohibited from having guns. (not sure if that should be for life though.) I do not think in my locked car in their parking lot counts for this ban. Their business is safe if it is in my car.

So in many regards, I do not ever see myself believing as you or others do. My upbringing prevents that. That does not make me right or wrong. It just is. some people in places are taught to fear guns. That is sad. There is nothing to fear about guns. Don't fear them. Respect them. Fear the crazies. As someone else said, if crazies can't get a gun, they will still be able to do something to harm a lot of people.

Edit: Most people who come here know this about Wyoming. So where do I think we are most vulnerable? Anywhere guns are not allowed by law. Anywhere you can walk in and know that at least half of the people there do not have guns. This includes but is not limited to schools, most government buildings (at least state and of course federal), and churches. Yes, I feel more insecure about security when I go to worship than I do the rest of the week. All place restrictions are the same for open carry and concealed carry.

 

[NETWizz]

I guess maybe it is the mentality thing. Here, if you walk into a grocery store with 8 people in it, half of them will be carrying. Some open, some concealed. I have NEVER had someone complain or act scared because they saw my gun. (Well, OK, when I was military and we were deploying on civilian aircraft, I carried my M-14A onto the aircraft through the airport terminal with me. Some flyers were uh, reluctant, LOL.)

Guns are a fact of life here. Again, I have NEVER heard someone complain about it. I may not be as proficient as some, but I spend at least an hour and 200 rounds every week at the range shooting. I hit that 100 yard target with a 50 yard gun 8 out of 10 times. (I would never try to hit someone at 100 yards away with a pistol. Who would do that?)

So to me, if someone is afraid because they see my gun safely holstered on my hip, then yes, as you say it, it is their problem. I have never seen the police called for a weapon in an authorized place. I have boycotted businesses for banning guns. We even put a restaurant out of business because people refused to eat there. I have never worn a gun to a place who bans them though. A business has a right to dictate whether or not you can have a gun in their place of business, just as I have a right not to go there. I believe anyone who takes a gun anywhere that it is not allowed should be prohibited from having guns. (not sure if that should be for life though.) I do not think in my locked car in their parking lot counts for this ban. Their business is safe if it is in my car.

So in many regards, I do not ever see myself believing as you or others do. My upbringing prevents that. That does not make me right or wrong. It just is. some people in places are taught to fear guns. That is sad. There is nothing to fear about guns. Don't fear them. Respect them. Fear the crazies. As someone else said, if crazies can't get a gun, they will still be able to do something to harm a lot of people.

1. Yup guns ARE a fact of life in most States... Some places like California the people just freak out due to the social dogma... they WILL call the police for almost anything these days, but it is THEIR problem being the police can't do anything to someone not breaking the law.

2. A lot of people fear guns even those properly holstered... They somehow feel you may have motives or be up to no good and will put distance from themselves and you.

3. I have never seen police called except on Youtube. For a LONG time the police would show up in force with a patty wagon and everything and try to intimidate groups of 20+ open carriers who were just eating breakfast with their family. Their favorite police tactic is to single people out of the group and to demand ID. Many police officers are just assholes though many aren't. Personally, I was at a little town celebration and there were police officers checking everybody's ID. An officer asked for my Driver's Licence when I just walked past him. I responded, "I am not driving sir." It is just a tactic they use to control crowds.

4. Yes, Businesses have every right to dictate if people can carry... and you have every right to not patronize them.

5. Your gun in a locked car should be totally fine. However, I work for State Government and cannot bring my gun inside work with me. In the parking lot at our meetings office 200 miles away they have signs that say "No Guns." Well, mine is locked up in my trunk. I don't think there is any law about no guns locked up in a car, and I sure as heck am not driving 200 miles home to drop off my gun... I just keep my mouth shut about it even though I don't think it is illegal. If they were to EVER illegally search my car, any charges would be dropped anyway, and I would sue.

6. I don't fear guns... I appreciate good quality ones.


In 2013 I plan to buy:
1. A Ruger 10-22 style Rifle
2. An AR-15 and some high capacity magazines and a red-dot sight and Light attachment.
3. A Sig Sauer P226 or P229 in 9mm <==I always wanted one of these. They are a beautiful piece, very reliable, mostly metal construction, and as reliable as a Glock... Have an exposed hammer... The weight should absorb recoil making it easy for my Girlfriend to shoot it, too. $900 to $1300 is hard to swallow to purchase a pistol though, but I have been wanting one for more than 5 years... going to bite the bullet and buy one
4. Something better than my XDS for summer concealment because it is not 100% reliable (maybe 98%)
5. A Glock 26 for winter/summer concealed carry + support for ALL those Glock Factory Magazines including a silly 33 round mag (got to buy at least one of those in my lifetime)
6. A 12 Guage Shotgun

 

[TechLady]

In 2013 I plan to buy:
1. A Ruger 10-22 style Rifle
2. An AR-15 and some high capacity magazines and a red-dot sight and Light attachment.
3. A Sig Sauer P226 or P229 in 9mm <==I always wanted one of these. They are a beautiful piece, very reliable, mostly metal construction, and as reliable as a Glock... Have an exposed hammer... The weight should absorb recoil making it easy for my Girlfriend to shoot it, too.
4. Something better than my XDS for summer concealment because it is not 100% reliable (maybe 98%)
5. A Glock 26 for winter/summer concealed carry + support for ALL those Glock Factory Magazines including a silly 33 round mag (got to buy at least one of those in my lifetime)
6. A 12 Guage Shotgun

That could buy an awful lot of awesome computer equipment, sadly.

 

[NETWizz]

That could buy an awful lot of awesome computer equipment, sadly.

I have enough computer equipment. Buying more is just a total waste the way I look at it:

Simply put if I buy a $900 Sig Sauer P226 today and a $900 computer... Fast forward to 2018... The Used Sig Sauer will be worth $1800 and the computer worth $38.

If some politician bans the sell of Semi-Auto handguns outside the National Firearms Act (like they do full auto and supressors), that Sig may be worth $10,000 by 2020!

 

[angry_geek]

I open carry when I'm in Missouri, which is quite often, and when I go down to Texas and New Mexico. I've never had people react badly or frightened. I do get the occasional "are you a policeman?", but, for the most part, no one minds at all. One cashier at a convenience store I stop at regularly told me she always feels safer when she sees people open carry. When I asked her why, she said, if the gun is on the hip in a holster, it's not going to be some thug trying to rob her, and, if some thug tries to rob her while someone in the store is carrying, it "would be bad for the robber".

I've only had to pull my gun from its holster twice in "action". Once was to defend a friend's poor wife from a crazed raccoon (that was hilarious! Those things are hard to hit when they're nuts.). The other time was on a dark highway. The car in front of me hit a deer. After I stopped to check on the driver, we started looking for the deer. When we found it, it was obvious the poor thing's back was broken, but she was still trying to get up. Since I was carrying, we were able to put it out of its misery.

 

[NETWizz]

I open carry when I'm in Missouri, which is quite often, and when I go down to Texas and New Mexico. I've never had people react badly or frightened. I do get the occasional "are you a policeman?", but, for the most part, no one minds at all. One cashier at a convenience store I stop at regularly told me she always feels safer when she sees people open carry. When I asked her why, she said, if the gun is on the hip in a holster, it's not going to be some thug trying to rob her, and, if some thug tries to rob her while someone in the store is carrying, it "would be bad for the robber".

I've only had to pull my gun from its holster twice in "action". Once was to defend a friend's poor wife from a crazed raccoon (that was hilarious! Those things are hard to hit when they're nuts.). The other time was on a dark highway. The car in front of me hit a deer. After I stopped to check on the driver, we started looking for the deer. When we found it, it was obvious the poor thing's back was broken, but she was still trying to get up. Since I was carrying, we were able to put it out of its misery.

Not judging you, but I wouldn't personally Open Carry... not that I have a problem with people doing it.


I also would not have shot at a raccoon. Sure, it is just a pest, but shooting within city limits scares the crap out of people... If you were out in the country somewhere where nobody will hear it... go for it.

 

[angry_geek]

We were at his shop out in the hills. Thing came out of the ceiling and was trying to attack us. Turned out he was rabid. The dog was outside, thank goodness.

 

[imageblur]

Guns for everyone!

 

[Rocco]

Guns for everyone!

No, lol. Too many people I would not like to see armed...

 

[NETWizz]

We were at his shop out in the hills. Thing came out of the ceiling and was trying to attack us. Turned out he was rabid. The dog was outside, thank goodness.

It's all good then...

 

[TAPtech]

I have a theoretical question.

If the ban on assault rifles was in place for the last 30 years, would this tragedy have happened? Let's please ignore the "buttefly effect" and discuss fathomable proposals.

 

[mraikes]

I have a theoretical question.

If the ban on assault rifles was in place for the last 30 years, would this tragedy have happened? Let's please ignore the "buttefly effect" and discuss fathomable proposals.

A nut with a knife killed 20 in China. They'll always find a way.

 

[TechLady]

A nut with a knife killed 20 in China. They'll always find a way.

Indeed. And it's convenient how much easier guns make it for them.

In that latest China spree the kids were injured, but not dead. Here, they're all dead. DEAD. That's the difference little things like bullets make.

As a commenter recently said on the Washington Post:

"I live in Australia and I am totally perplexed by American resistance to banning private ownership of military style assault weapons. People can own guns in Australia - Australia has shooters and hunters - but we can't own the type of weapons that can slaughter dozens of people in an instant. They were banned after a massacre at Port Arthur in my home state. Check out our statistics compared to Americas. Gun control does not mean that there are NO guns, period. It's very specific. And it does reduce the likelihood and the incidence of mass slaughter. I don't know how you can stand the grief."

I don't either.

P.S. This.

 

[NETWizz]

Let me put it to you this way... an AR-15 is "Sporting Equipment" it is a "Sporting Rifle" that just looks scary.

What is wrong with a lawful citizen owning an AR-15?


Problem with gun control is it starts with certain classes of guns:
1. AR's and AK's
2. Semi Auto handguns
3. Revolvers
4. Sniper Rifles (i.e. Bolt Action)
5. Pinking guns i.e. .22lr
6. Hunting Rifles

 

[alluseridsrejected]

Why would our government think it is ok to take guns away from American citizens while at the same time being ok to give them to Syrian Islamist and Mexican drug cartels?

 

[NETWizz]

Why would our government think it is ok to take guns away from American citizens while at the same time being ok to give them to Syrian Islamist and Mexican drug cartels?

Um, because there is a double-standard they won't admit too, and EVERYONE knows the U.S. Government thinks too highly of itself... Just look at how foreigners view us and our Government... and ask yourself why.

Could it be that our Government always tries to tell everybody else in the world what to do, how to do it, when they aren't asking for our opinion?

 

[seedubya]

Um, because there is a double-standard they won't admit too, and EVERYONE knows the U.S. Government thinks too highly of itself... Just look at how foreigners view us and our Government... and ask yourself why.

Could it be that our Government always tries to tell everybody else in the world what to do, how to do it, when they aren't asking for our opinion?

Wow. Great comment. As a non-American with LOADS of American relatives and a serious soft-spot for the US of A in general, it is nice to see this. It must get painful as an American always having everyone else put your country down when really the only problem is the government. Ordinary American citizens, in my experience are just like people everywhere else. Trying to make a good life for themselves in spite of the the all the crap that politicians and BIG business send your way. You guys are ALWAYS welcome in Ireland.

 

[NETWizz]

Wow. Great comment. As a non-American with LOADS of American relatives and a serious soft-spot for the US of A in general, it is nice to see this. It must get painful as an American always having everyone else put your country down when really the only problem is the government. Ordinary American citizens, in my experience are just like people everywhere else. Trying to make a good life for themselves in spite of the the all the crap that politicians and BIG business send your way. You guys are ALWAYS welcome in Ireland.

Thanks... This is how we feel about the rest of the world too. We really don't support all the stuff our politicians do. As always, you are certainly welcome in the United States...