Gun control / Anti gun control

[Rocco]

Let's bring the discussion to this thread, and let the other thread be cleaned up and used for the sorrows we all feel for the victims of the vicious attack.

A few things I just want to say on my own part. Here in Wyoming, they changed the concealed carry law to where you don't even need a permit to cc. You just have to be a law abiding citizen. Heck, they even took away the requirement for basic gunmanship class to be able to conceal carry. (Which scares the heck out of me!)

I have a conceal carry permit still, since a lot of states will let me carry in their state with it, not just my own. I also can walk into any gun store and purchase a new gun, show my permit, and not have to wait any period to purchase it, since I have had all the back ground checks already. I keep a loaded gun in my car, next to my seat. I keep 2 guns around my house. I am a licensed NRA instructor in a few courses, including basic pistols, and concealed carry.

I want to see one law that has been proposed in the past that will take guns away from criminals. As a law-abiding citizen, I want to be able to be just as armed as anybody who wishes to rob me, or harm my family. As a law abiding citizen, I would follow any law that is passed, provided it passes the supreme court. However, I would do so with less enthusiasm. I do not believe more gun control laws are required. If a criminal has a gun, then I NEED a gun.

In the other thread, there was talk about the 1st amendment on these boards. I am still amazed that people still think the freedom of speech applies to any private person, or organization. The 1st amendment only protects you from the government. It does not protect you against anyone else.

For the record, I am a registered Democrat. (A Wyoming democrat is closer to a Republican from California...)

 

[NETWizz]

Regardless of which side of the political agenda you are on (we are on the same side), it brings the whole world great pain that some F**K could go into a school and do this to 6 year olds. Don't think I have been this angry and upset hearing the news in years, and for the record I am a gun owner!

How about waiting a little bit out of respect for:
Charlotte, 6
Daniel, 7
Rachel Davino, 29
Olivia, 6
Josephine, 7
Ana, 6
Dylan, 6
Dawn Hocksprung, 47
Madeleine, 6
Catherine, 6
Chase, 7
Jesse, 6
James, 6
Grace, 7
Anne Marie Murphy, 52
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack, 6
Noah, 6
Caroline, 6
Jessica, 6
Avielle, 6
Lauren Russeau, 30
Mary Sherlach, 56
Victoria Soto, 27
Benjamin, 6
Allison, 6
(anyone else I missed)

 

[Knightsman]

Regardless of which side of the political agenda you are on (we are on the same side), it brings the whole world great pain that some **** could go into a school and do this to 6 year olds.

How about waiting a little bit out of respect for:
Charlotte, 6
Daniel, 7
Rachel Davino, 29
Olivia, 6
Josephine, 7
Ana, 6
Dylan, 6
Dawn Hocksprung, 47
Madeleine, 6
Catherine, 6
Chase, 7
Jesse, 6
James, 6
Grace, 7
Anne Marie Murphy, 52
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack, 6
Noah, 6
Caroline, 6
Jessica, 6
Avielle, 6
Lauren Russeau, 30
Mary Sherlach, 56
Victoria Soto, 27
Benjamin, 6
Allison, 6
(anyone else I missed)

I believe that was the point of starting a new thread.

 

[altrenda]

I want to see one law that has been proposed in the past that will take guns away from criminals. As a law-abiding citizen, I want to be able to be just as armed as anybody who wishes to rob me, or harm my family. As a law abiding citizen, I would follow any law that is passed, provided it passes the supreme court. However, I would do so with less enthusiasm. I do not believe more gun control laws are required. If a criminal has a gun, then I NEED a gun.

I believe it's a fools errand talking about taking your guns or stopping criminals from stealing guns. but think about this:

Almost all of the these crimes were committed by people who were not criminals before their cowardly acts.
And almost all of these acts were committed with guns that were purchased legally.

Looking at this list there is only 1 common theme. - the manner used to kill multiple innocent people. Not mental illness, not bad schools, not video games, not lack of prayer.

But it's always "Too Soon" to talk about finding a solution.


February 22, 2012—Five people were killed in at a Korean health spa in Norcross, Georgia, when a man got into an argument and opened fire inside the facility.

February 26, 2012—Multiple gunmen began firing into a nightclub crowd in Jackson, Tennessee, killing one person and injuring 20 others.

February 27, 2012—Three students at Chardon High School in rural Ohio were killed when a classmate opened fire.

March 8, 2012—Two people were killed and seven wounded at a psychiatric hospital in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, when a gunman entered the hospital with two semiautomatic handguns and began firing.

March 31, 2012—A gunman opened fire on a crowd of mourners at a North Miami, Florida, funeral home, killing two people and injuring 12 others.

April 2, 2012—A 43-year-old former student at Oikos University in Oakland, California, walked into his former school and killed seven people, “execution-style.” Three people were wounded.

April 6, 2012—Two men went on a deadly shooting spree in Tulsa, Oklahoma, shooting black men at random in an apparently racially motivated attack. Three men died and two were wounded.

May 29, 2012—A man in Seattle, Washington, opened fire in a coffee shop and killed five people and then himself.

July 9, 2012—At a soccer tournament in Wilmington, Delaware, three people were killed, including a 16-year-old player and the event organizer, when multiple gunmen began firing shots, apparently targeting the organizer.

July 20, 2012—James Holmes enters a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises and opens fire with a semi-automatic weapon; twelve people are killed and fifty-eight are wounded.

August 5, 2012—A white supremacist and former Army veteran shot six people to death inside a Sikh temple in suburban Milwaukee, Wisconsin, before killing himself.

August 14, 2012—Three people were killed at Texas A&M University when a 35-year-old man went on a shooting rampage; one of the dead was a police officer.

September 27, 2012—A 36-year-old man who had just been laid off from Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis, Minnesota, entered his former workplace and shot five people to death, and wounded three others before killing himself.

October 21, 2012—45-year-old Radcliffe Frankin Haughton shot three women to death, including his wife, Zina Haughton, and injured four others at a spa in Brookfield, Wisconsin, before killing himself.

December 11, 2012—A 22-year-old began shooting at random at a mall near Portland, Oregon, killing two people and then himself.

December 14, 2012—One man, murders a reported twenty-six people at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, including twenty children, before killing himself.

 

[CLC]

You guys probably wont like my view on this but I think all guns should be banned except for hunting rifles. In my opinion you don't need a handgun, and most definitely don't need an assault rifle. These should only be available to law enforcement and military.

Now what about protecting my home? Well you can protect your home just as well with a rifle as you can with any other gun, unless you are a waiting for the mafia or cartels to come after you, then you best get a bigger gun

You could say its the all the criminals fault, but how did they get a gun in the first place? Maybe being able to get one should be harder? "Psych Evaluation!" Don't get me wrong, I believe in the right to bear arms, but lets face it, if we make guns harder to acquire then there will eventually be less incidents like this one.

 

[ComputerPro]

guns...

You guys probably wont like my view on this but I think all guns should be banned except for hunting rifles. In my opinion you don't need a handgun, and most definitely don't need an assault rifle. These should only be available to law enforcement and military.

Now what about protecting my home? Well you can protect your home just as well with a rifle as you can with any other gun, unless you are a waiting for the mafia or cartels to come after you, then you best get a bigger gun

You could say its the all the criminals fault, but how did they get a gun in the first place? Maybe being able to get one should be harder? "Psych Evaluation!" Don't get me wrong, I believe in the right to bear arms, but lets face it, if we make guns harder to acquire then there will eventually be less incidents like this one.

I'm the opposite. I firmly believe that criminals will acquire guns regardless. Just like how heroin is illegal but yet criminals somehow get it when they want it. So when you really think about it... anti gun laws will only really keep guns out of law abiding peoples hands.
Tomorrow if ALL guns were made illegal, do you think gangs and criminals would just surrender all their weapons lol? They would have a field day.

We live in an age where there are very bad people walking around. I, for one, feel much safer if I am armed. Sad to feel this way but I really do.

I also know that if some crazy psycho who wants to hurt children in a school will do so regardless of the method of delivery. If they can't get a gun, (which they always can thru illegal channels), then they will make a bomb, or poison the food or whatever. The killer didn't shoot the children 'just because he happened to have a gun handy'. He obviously was bent on causing chaos and would have done so regardless.

Its like an obvious programming equation...
If we ban gun possession by LAW....... and..........criminals DONT follow laws......... then.........they WILL still possess guns and guess who wouldn't? The ones who FOLLOW the laws lol. It's kind of a no-brainer when you really think about it.
I for one, would feel very uneasy if the only ones who could walk around with guns were law enforcement and criminals! That would be a messed up place to be.

Not trying to second guess what happened the other day, because its too terrible to even think about really. BUT.... what if there were armed people in the school? I'm not talking about small women teachers who claim they would get their weapons taken by larger students lol, I mean select individuals whom were authorized to carry them. Could they have shot and killed the intruder and maybe saved 'some' of the childrens lives? I know one thing for sure.... If an armed gunman enters a school and NO ONE is armed, then how in the world would they defend themselves and all the children from the gunman? Just doesn't make sense.

You could argue that the gunman wouldn't be able to obtain the guns in the first place but that would just be plain stupid. How do they get crack? or heroin? or cocaine? They just buy them illegally of course.

The other side of this coin is we need to re-think how we feel about hard core criminals. The bleeding heart ACLU wants all murderers to have a second chance because they are human too. REALLY? People like that kid who murdered all those children need to be killed period. No if's ands, buts or any other excuses. And whoever believes they should have a second chance really needs to lose all their voting rights and be deemed mentally retarded. Death row inmates are on death row for 20+ years??? WTF. And we are paying for them?? RFOL. Maybe we deserve to live in these times because we are all so stupid lol.

 

[TechLady]

Here's some enlightening reading about the mental illness aspect, particularly for anyone whose knee-jerk reactions are to demonize the parents:

I Am Adam Lanza’s Mother

Total lack of mental health care and guns that are easier to get than Sudafed are a bad combination.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I grew up around guns.....
I'm a firm believer in the right to bear arms....
I'm also a firm believer in "gun control".
I do not wish to see a ban on guns...but as I mentioned in the above sentence..."gun control".

I've followed the background stories on many of the examples of shootings...and it seems in over 75% of the time...the person that went on the rampage should not have been able to obtain guns. Virginia tech massacre is a prime example..he had a history of mental illness and should not have been able to get guns. Yet he found some loophole in another state and went there to get them.

That shooting in the movie theater...that kid was whacked in the head, had a history...should never have been able to touch a gun.

People can post all the links they want....shootings, murders, tragedies....Yet...we rarely see lots of links about people that righteously defended themselves and/or their loved ones with guns. Oh yeah..they do happen. Rarely see that in the news, or media...because it's typically low scale...involves just one or two or a just several people. Not "newsworthy". But you can see lots of examples of it in a column in a magazine called Americal Rifleman ...a column called "The Armed Citizen"
http://www.americanrifleman.org/BlogList.aspx?cid=25&id=21

But back to "gun control"...there isn't enough control. We have many good laws on the books...but they're not widely enforced...or there are too many loopholes.

Want a handgun? Go to a dealer...get permits, go through checks. Don't want that kind of bother? Easy...drive to a gun show and purchase the handgun from someone selling there..they don't have to follow those permits and background checks...because they're not dealers...they're "collectors". There's one big loophole that should be closed.

Many guns are not properly secured in the homes. Got young kids? Secure those guns! How many times do we see stories about a young kid that found his fathers gun and was playing...and got shot..or shot a friend. The idiot parent that didn't secure that gun is to blame...not the fault of the gun. Just like you do a ton of other things around your home to make it safe for kids. And then there is education..once the kid gets older. My father spent lots of time with me showing me how to handle guns...going to the ranges, or out in the woods. As did my neighbor. But todays detached kids...hardly any parent interaction or passing down of education. They think they're learning by what they see on TV or on the internet.

Curious what story unfolds about this Adam kid and his mom...apparently all 3 of those guns were hers...including the AR-15 rifle..and she was a gun enthusiast. I bet this kid will have a history of a mental problem..in which case, I put the blame on her for having those in the house.

Ever notice that in many of our states where people are allowed to carry...you don't see nearly as many massacres as you see in states where carry isn't allowed? Just food for thought....criminals that do these things aren't dumb. Potential bad guys that live in those states know they won't get far in their damage. Potential bad guys that live in states where nobody can carry know they will be able to dole out maximum damage before they're put down.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Also in comparison....the big evil US, compared to other countries...
*Size of country
*Amount of urban areas
*mixture of cultures

 

[NETWizz]

You guys probably wont like my view on this but I think all guns should be banned except for hunting rifles. In my opinion you don't need a handgun, and most definitely don't need an assault rifle. These should only be available to law enforcement and military.

Now what about protecting my home? Well you can protect your home just as well with a rifle as you can with any other gun, unless you are a waiting for the mafia or cartels to come after you, then you best get a bigger gun

You could say its the all the criminals fault, but how did they get a gun in the first place? Maybe being able to get one should be harder? "Psych Evaluation!" Don't get me wrong, I believe in the right to bear arms, but lets face it, if we make guns harder to acquire then there will eventually be less incidents like this one.

That's because you're a simpleton... and have no idea how much tyranny we would have if the gooberment didn't fear our guns.

 

[NETWizz]

Let's see:

It is illegal for a person under 21 to have a pistol (he did), illegal to own/posess a pistol without proper license/training in Connecticut (he did), illegal for a person under 21 to transport a pistol (he did), illegal to enter school property with a firearm (he did), illegal to break into a school (he did), illegal to discharge a weapon in city limits and in a school (he did... he did), illegal to kill (he did).


Yes, by all means, add more gun laws, i'm sure it will help...

 

[CLC]

That's because you're a simpleton... and have no idea how much tyranny we would have if the gooberment didn't fear our guns.

Let's see:

It is illegal for a person under 21 to have a pistol (he did), illegal to own/posess a pistol without proper license/training in Connecticut (he did), illegal for a person under 21 to transport a pistol (he did), illegal to enter school property with a firearm (he did), illegal to break into a school (he did), illegal to discharge a weapon in city limits and in a school (he did... he did), illegal to kill (he did).


Yes, by all means, add more gun laws, i'm sure it will help...

First of all there is no need for name calling, if you can't handle someone who doesn't agree with you then you get off the damn topic.

If you read my post before you got all hot and bothered I suggested that all guns but hunting rifles should be banned. This guy used an assault rifle, explain to me the need to have one please? I would really like to hear the opinion of such an Einstein.

The guns were obtained legally, that's the damn point! If people couldn't obtain them legally then there would be less on the street. Where do you think the guns come from that criminals use? They obtain guns from people who got them legally, whether they are stolen or sold it still means legal guns provide more availability to the people that should not have them.

If You can't see past the end of your nose that's not my problem. Something like I suggested takes time, everyone these days wants a quick fix to a problem. Over time they would be harder for a person to get illegally, think about it.

Now as far as obtaining a gun legally there should be stricter laws, yes I said it "Stricter". I think it should go as far as a physiological evaluation, and you should also have to give out information as to who you live with and if they could be a threat or have mental issues. Right now all you need to do to get a gun is not have a violent felony!

I thought this was a mature forum not a teenage chat room, check your issues at the door please.

 

[angry_geek]

Chicago: Strict gun laws. You're more likely to be shot dead there than if you were a soldier in Afghanistan this year.

 

[CLC]

Chicago: Strict gun laws. You're more likely to be shot dead there than if you were a soldier in Afghanistan this year.

I agree that gun laws are not the only answer, what would be nice though is if the laws were the same across the country.

 

[Bryce W]

I dont know all the ins and outs of American gun laws so I wont be able to contribute this this thread in the ways the others can, but one thing I can say is the way the US goes about publicizing these shootings. The American media go about it completely the wrong way.

Of course the media needs to cover an event like this, but they tend to make the shooter famous. We know the names of these people and we know what they look like. It makes shooting up a school more appealing. Obviously these shooters are already really disturbed and are probably at the point of committing suicide. But why not go down famous and shooting?

In Australia back in 1996 we had a shooter kill 35, injure 21 with an AR-15 and a L1A1. Of course the media covered the shooting, but they rarely said the name of the shooter. They just referred to them as "the shooter" which denied him of his "fame".

I would like to see the American media do more of this.

 

[Xander]

Also in comparison....the big evil US, compared to other countries...
*Size of country
*Amount of urban areas
*mixture of cultures

I think you would want to consider, not the size of country, but population density. The US is among the least crowded nations in the world (114th), tied with Venezuela. Monaco is #1, effectively being a city-state. Monaco has cultural diversity. There should be shootings happening there constantly. There aren't.
Japan is #27 and the UK, is #37, incidentally. Nobody can deny that the UK doesn't have its fair share of mixture of cultures and they're a lot more crowded than the US.

In Australia back in 1996 we had a shooter kill 35, injure 21 with an AR-15 and a L1A1. Of course the media covered the shooting, but they rarely said the name of the shooter. They just referred to them as "the shooter" which denied him of his "fame".

I would like to see the American media do more of this.

To back up Bryce's point about denying the killer any fame: Charlie Brooker's Newswipe 25/03/09

 

[ArtemusComputerTechnology]

Here in America, it is hard to force gun control. The first place to target is the American borders then the gun manufacturers. I live in New York City, a person can easily buy a gun, rifle, grenades, etc. from a seller's car trunk. It is that easy. I would to see America have stricter gun rules. I also have a handgun for residential purposes; not for hunting or anything else. 2012 is almost over, our country had numerous incidents by killing of a weapon.

 

[angry_geek]

I agree that gun laws are not the only answer, what would be nice though is if the laws were the same across the country.

This I agree with. It's ridiculous that I can carry my loaded Walther on my hip in Missouri, but, before I cross the Illinois state line, I have to unload it, break it down, and stow it in a locked box in the back of my car.

 

[Angle-Pc]

I dont know all the ins and outs of American gun laws so I wont be able to contribute this this thread in the ways the others can, but one thing I can say is the way the US goes about publicizing these shootings. The American media go about it completely the wrong way.

Of course the media needs to cover an event like this, but they tend to make the shooter famous. We know the names of these people and we know what they look like. It makes shooting up a school more appealing. Obviously these shooters are already really disturbed and are probably at the point of committing suicide. But why not go down famous and shooting?

In Australia back in 1996 we had a shooter kill 35, injure 21 with an AR-15 and a L1A1. Of course the media covered the shooting, but they rarely said the name of the shooter. They just referred to them as "the shooter" which denied him of his "fame".

I would like to see the American media do more of this.

Absolutely and 100% agreed. I think that alone will help curtain some of these horrible acts

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I dont know all the ins and outs of American gun laws so I wont be able to contribute this this thread in the ways the others can, but one thing I can say is the way the US goes about publicizing these shootings. The American media go about it completely the wrong way.

I would like to see the American media do more of this.

I agree with you 100%. The machine known as the media..here in the US...it's all about hype...hype..and over-hype. And yeah that 15 minutes of fame.
When someone like this mentally disturbed person wants to "Go out in fame..go out in a big blaze!"......do it in the US, you'll get your coverage!