Gun control / Anti gun control

seedubya said:
Wow. Great comment. As a non-American with LOADS of American relatives and a serious soft-spot for the US of A in general, it is nice to see this. It must get painful as an American always having everyone else put your country down when really the only problem is the government.
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This is a common misconception, that government is the problem. It's actually a convenient distraction for the real problem. As Chomsky, Dewey and many others have said, "politics is the shadow cast on society by big business." And to that end, here's a little cartoon that explains how that works in the gun industry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7RVIE_NsQw (1 1/2 min)

seedubya said:
You guys are ALWAYS welcome in Ireland.
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Believe me, thought about it ;)
 
It's 3pm (uk time). on Christmas Eve.

Reports shown on British TV of a US fire crew Nr Rochester New York, fired upon with an assault rifle whilst attending a house fire.

2 firefighters shot dead, 2 wounded.

Fire crews evacuated, fire spreading.

I just checked CNN and Fox News.

It didn't even merit a mention.

Draw your own conclusions.
 
bertie40 said:
It's 3pm (uk time). on Christmas Eve.

Reports shown on British TV of a US fire crew Nr Rochester New York, fired upon with an assault rifle whilst attending a house fire.

2 firefighters shot dead, 2 wounded.

Fire crews evacuated, fire spreading.

I just checked CNN and Fox News.

It didn't even merit a mention.

Draw your own conclusions.
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You must not be searching too well. It's all over the news, including CNN and Fox. Fox news and ABC have been talking about it for the last 3 hours on TV and the radio. I'm desperately trying to find out if a friend is ok. He works for one of the fire departments there, and, last I heard, there were several departments responding.
 
bertie40 said:
It's 3pm (uk time). on Christmas Eve.

Reports shown on British TV of a US fire crew Nr Rochester New York, fired upon with an assault rifle whilst attending a house fire.

2 firefighters shot dead, 2 wounded.

Fire crews evacuated, fire spreading.

I just checked CNN and Fox News.

It didn't even merit a mention.

Draw your own conclusions.
Click to expand...

Yeah .... this is incorrect. I try and not even watch the news too much because it is just simply depressing but I saw it all over the local and national news including CNN and Fox News.
 
CLC said:
You guys probably wont like my view on this but I think all guns should be banned except for hunting rifles. In my opinion you don't need a handgun, and most definitely don't need an assault rifle. These should only be available to law enforcement and military.

Now what about protecting my home? Well you can protect your home just as well with a rifle as you can with any other gun, unless you are a waiting for the mafia or cartels to come after you, then you best get a bigger gun:)

You could say its the all the criminals fault, but how did they get a gun in the first place? Maybe being able to get one should be harder? "Psych Evaluation!" Don't get me wrong, I believe in the right to bear arms, but lets face it, if we make guns harder to acquire then there will eventually be less incidents like this one.
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In your world does everyone drive a Ferrari and have sex with the women of their dreams while being able to do whatever they want and never have to work for it? Does Obama get re-re-elected after this new term he is currently serving too? X_X
 
I stayed out of this thread for a while because most of the time they end badly. Right up there with religion. I Would like to show the numbers that prove more gun control does not = less crime but people can always manipulate stats to suite their own agenda. I'll say this much: If you have your mind made up that more Gov/more gun control is the answer no amount of stats, data or facts is going to change your views.


I think we need to address the real problems here instead of the tools used. The real problems in almost all of these mass shootings seems to be mentally ill people who were allowed to roam about freely and the fact that a $5 watch at walmart is more closely guarded than our kids. I'll explain. In all of the mass shootings there were clear warning signs of deep mental issues long before anything happened. People have come out months after the fact with this info, sometimes they wont because they feel responsible. I think people need to stop over looking these early warning signs and we need a better system in place to deal with these people that obviously have no place in society. Second problem is lack security for our kids. If I go to my local Walmart and steal a $5 watch and try to make it out the door I'll be tackled by 2-3 people before I can make it out. Why is it if I dont send my kid to school I'll go to jail, yet once there they are not protected? I know, I know "resource officer" I hear. bs. They often get called out for other duties. Plus one officer for maybe 2,000 plus kids and a facility large enough to hold them? Give me a break. Now for some quick facts that no one that is anti-gun wants to hear.

Fact Almost all of these mass shootings have happened so called "gun free" zones.

Fact When met with armed resistance they all either gave up or took their own lives.

Fact Mass killings of school children is nothing new. In fact one of the worst in US history was the Bath School bombing of 1927 in Bath Township, Michigan that killed 38 elementary school children, six adults. No guns were used.


It seems clear that these psychopaths target easy victims who cannot fight back in locations were they are almost certain to not meet with armed resistance. Where are the police department shootings? The gunshow shootings? The gun shop shootings ect? How about shooting range mass murders?


I think what we need is a revamp of the mental health system combined with stronger security at our schools. This means more armed officers protecting my kids and less giving me a ticket for doing 37 in a 35. How about having a select few administration armed and trained? I know at least 2-3 people in the school where my wife works who already have their CCW permit. Train them and let them carry at school.


Simple logic. Who are gun laws for? People who obey the law obviously. Criminals on the other hand by their very nature do not obey laws. So how exactly is disarming law abiding people going to do anything other than make them an easier victim? I can see it now: "Well darn, I was gonna go kill a bunch of kids today but I'm not allowed to carry a gun on school grounds"

Makes perfect sense.
 
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bertie40 said:
It's 3pm (uk time). on Christmas Eve.

Reports shown on British TV of a US fire crew Nr Rochester New York, fired upon with an assault rifle whilst attending a house fire.

2 firefighters shot dead, 2 wounded.

Fire crews evacuated, fire spreading.

I just checked CNN and Fox News.

It didn't even merit a mention.

Draw your own conclusions.
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But no mention of the millions that had a wonderful Christmas. Humm? Wonder why???


What makes me laugh so much is the thought that if we take way guns then people will not harm others anymore. Gosh, Wonder what they did before guns? Probably just shook hands?

You probably didnt catch the little girl that was a victim of a home invasion by 3 armed men. She got her mothers riffle (having completed gun training about a week ago) and took care of the invaders. "No way coffee, Your lying!" Nope. Heres the link --> http://1061evansville.com/little-girl-defends-home-with-pink-rifle/


Just food for thought.

coffee
 
My previous post regarding the lack of reporting of the firefighter shootings was incorrect, it was reported during rolling news reporting.
 
haven't read all this thread because its a little too long however you can really see the difference in mentality between most of the people that have been brought up in a gun society and those who haven't.
 
Lets be honest here. Its not about gun control. Its about people control. The government will use what ever means it can to disarm the people. Disarmed people are easy to control and have no means to fight back. Guns made us free from an overbearing Gov and guns are the only things keeping us that way. The Gov knows full well that more "gun control" wont do a thing to stop crime, in fact it only makes it worse. They play on peoples emotional responses to tragedies like the school shootings to pass knee jerk, unconstitutional legislation that people thinking logically would never allow.
 
If you really think that little of your government, that they are evil and their intent is to enslave the populace, why don't you overthrow them?

One big violent coup, helmets versus tinfoil hats? Do it now before they take away your pea shooters.

Your government is trying to limit guns because people are asking for it. Because people are shooting up crowds and mass-murder is becoming commonplace within your borders. Because you ignore mental health as an issue and do nothing to keep weapons out of the hands of the disturbed.
That is why your government is trying to do something about gun control...because you won't exercise it yourselves.
 
gunslinger said:
Lets be honest here. Its not about gun control. Its about people control. The government will use what ever means it can to disarm the people. Disarmed people are easy to control and have no means to fight back. Guns made us free from an overbearing Gov and guns are the only things keeping us that way. The Gov knows full well that more "gun control" wont do a thing to stop crime, in fact it only makes it worse. They play on peoples emotional responses to tragedies like the school shootings to pass knee jerk, unconstitutional legislation that people thinking logically would never allow.
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As a gun enthusiast since I was old enough to hold and shoot a Stevens .22 Boy Rifle...I actually don't hold this "the big bad gov't is trying to control us" approach.

I'm a firm believer in the "right to bear arms"....I believe one should have the choice to acquire guns. Assuming that person is capable of using them and securing them properly, and of responsible and of sane mind....no bad stuff on their criminal record, no psych problems, etc.

However, as I've said in prior threads...I also support "gun control"...meaning people that have drug problems, a criminal record of bad stuff, psych problems/mental problems, etc...they should not be able to get near guns.

Parents that have kids in their homes....should education them properly, and secure their weapons properly...to prevent little hands from gettings on those guns and causing an accident. This is common sense that is not commonly followed.

As in this tragedy here with this wacko Adam kid...it has been reported that he had a trouble past...mentally. As in psychiatric problems. It has been reported that he has been on medication to stabilize his behavior. Now ...the mother had a collection of guns in the house? And I'm going to go out on a limb here...and guess that the mother knew of her sons mental problems. If this mother is up in heaven right now looking down at all of this that happened...someone should smack her across the head with a frying pan and say "HELLO WHY DID YOU HAVE A COLLECTION OF GUNS IN YOUR HOUSE WITH A MENTAL NUTCASE KID?!?!?!"

The Virginia Tech school shooting...that kid also had a document past of mental issues..and by the law (meaning existing gun control) should not have been able to obtain weapons. Yet...he was able to drive out of state to some other state like New York or something...and obtain guns.

The shooting in Arizona where that senator or state rep...that wife of an astronaut, she got shot in the head...that guy had a criminal past including drug use...by law (existing gun control) he should not have been able to obtain a gun...yet he was able to obtain one through some loophole or out of state thing...or actually I think he purchased from a gun collector and not through a proper dealer....it was some loophole that bypassed proper paperwork.

So many tragedies done by those that, by existing gun control laws...should not have been able to legally get one....yet they stepped outside the rules and got guns.

Recently on the news, some local big newspaper around New York went and printed out a huge list...including address/location....of registered handgun owners.
http://www.aim.org/don-irvine-blog/new-york-paper-defends-publication-of-gun-owner-list/

The outcome of that action that goes through my head? They've basically advertised which homes are NOT protected by gun owners. I'm curious what correlation we'll now see of homes on that list...and burglaries and/or home invasions. The dolt that produced that list/article should be mailed a continually updated list of burglaries or worse...home invasions/rapes that are done by bad guys knowing there's no risk by doing into those unprotected homes.

I..for one...enjoy the status of "enter at your own risk...this house (and my family) is protected by Smith & Wesson"
Some dudley doo-right journalist thinks it will harm me or make me feel bad by putting my name and address on some list of gun owners...I invite them to...it will only ADD to the protection of my home.
 
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@YeOldeStonecat

Check my first post in this thread. Thats not gun control you are talking about, its people with mental issues control. Educating your kids about guns is proper parenting, again, not gun control. I do agree that we should keep weapons out of the hands Of convicted violent felons and people with mental problems. The thing is those are already laws.
 
gunslinger said:
@YeOldeStonecat

Check my first post in this thread. Thats not gun control you are talking about, its people with mental issues control. Educating your kids about guns is proper parenting, again, not gun control. I do agree that we should keep weapons out of the hands Of convicted violent felons and people with mental problems. The thing is those are already laws.
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IMO it is gun control...it's just proper enforcement. Most of the latter part of my thread is about enforcement of existing laws....right now it's poorly done...very poorly enforced...there's more loopholes in it than a giant piece of swiss cheese standing in place of the hoover dam! Plugging those loopholes. Example....you can't go purchase a handgun from a dealer...without getting a license (depending on state you live in..such as mine). But....I can drive to some private gun show....and purchase any gun from a "collector"....without a license...without background checks, etc. Where's the control there?

or...these guys with issues that can't get a gun legally in their own state..so they'll drive a few states away and pickup a gun there...because they know the systems aren't connected and something on their record in their state won't show up in the other state when they get checked.

I go through all the proper steps to do it on the up and legally....yet some jackholes cut through and obtain them illegally, sidestepping rules 'n what not..and ruin the game for everyone. Screw that!
 
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TechLady said:
Ha ha ha ha ha!

Oh hey...by the way, remember when all the NRA guys said that Travon Martin would still be alive if he'd had a concealed 9mm? Me neither!

http://youtu.be/-ld4AB_aFOs
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Ha ha ha ha ha!

Are you freaking kidding me! How can you possible "laugh" at a situation like this.

You're mind must be as warped as the mental people who shouldn't be armed, if you find humor in this.

Thank God there were other ARMED people who quickly ended the situation before the entire office got shot-up.

I've been trying to lay low on this thread, but if you find these situations funny, you're one sick individual.
 
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