Mac Pro 2013 - can't run any app

[Rigo]

G'day folks,
This runs on High Sierra that in itself doesn't appear to have any issue except that just about no app can run, even some system apps.
Can't launch repair from USB install stick when logged in.
Successfully booted and ran in-place upgrade from the installation USB but the problem is still there if not worse as the icons on the desktop are now mangled up.




Any suggestion for how to go forward highly welcome.
Clean install?

 

[NETWizz]

Full Stop: If the Unit is running macOS High Sierra (10.13), that was released in 2017...

It is highly unlikely to support upgrades or clean installs to a currently supported version of macOS and may be lacking Security updates

==>That hardware has probably reached End of Life. If it has replace it!

Oldest Macs Still Getting Security Updates:

Current is macOS Sequoia. Oldest still supported version is MacOS Sonoma

iMac Pro 2017, iMac 2019, Mac Mini 2018, Mac Pro 2019, Mac Studio 2022
MacBook Air 2018, MacBook Pro 2018

^^^ These are the oldest Macs that still get security updates



*****

If it is still supported:

It is so messed up, you are going to have to fix it from alternative boot media or Internet recovery (if supported)

I would power it off ... and power it on and do an ⌥ + ⌘ + R ... (that first symbol is the Option key)
A LOT of Apple Silicon Macs you can just Press and Hold the Power Button a long time on boot, but I doubt it is one of these.

Once in Internet recovery (if supported) , Open Disk Utility, Select the Drive (select the whole drive NOT the volume), Click First Aid

==> If it fails at the device level, that is a red flag you probably have a bad SSD or HDD but it doesn't really do a deep sector scan.


You can launch Terminal and search the Internet how to check SMART data. It also supports fsck_apfs and fsck_hfs with -fy options.

It is a little weird because it is BSD style slices so something like fsck_apfs -fy /dev/disk0s2

You can do a diskutil list to see what you have... Make sure it is NOT mounted. Probably something like diskutil umountDisk /dev/disk0 on a Mac

Another thing you could do is test read the whole disk by doing a bit by bit copy to nowhere to see if it errors:
dd if=/dev/disk0 of=/dev/null bs=1m
***


If the hardware is good (unlikely), you can delete the volume in Disk Utility and quit it... Then just run the macOS installer to lay down a fresh install that works.

On older Macs you can boot USB or whatever by holding the ⌥ Key

Good Luck.


If it was my own computer, I would just buy a new one.

 

[lan101]

If it was my own computer, I would just buy a new one.

Or even a refurbished M1 macbook is going for a pretty good price now if they can't spend a lot.

 

[timeshifter]

If it's for a client then I'd stop right there. No supported OS for that machine. Any fix you come up with may not last. Many modern apps won't work. The computer is insecure.

But, if it's yours and you're just messing around you could try Open Core Legacy Patcher. It's a boot loader among other things. it allows you to run modern macOS on hardware Apple doesn't support.

 

[lan101]

If it's for a client then I'd stop right there. No supported OS for that machine. Any fix you come up with may not last. Many modern apps won't work. The computer is insecure.

But, if it's yours and you're just messing around you could try Open Core Legacy Patcher. It's a boot loader among other things. it allows you to run modern macOS on hardware Apple doesn't support.

I was watching a few videos on that somewhat recently and I know a lot of the comments were saying how the new OS's would run terribly slow on the older apple hardware. Like you said more of an experiment but yeah I know I'd never do that for a client because you just don't know how it would go and anything that doesn't work out they will likely blame you for it lol.

Kinda like the whole work around to get windows 11 on unsupported machines. I've only done that with a handful of computers but definitely wouldn't in every situation. Plus with image backups I can trust we can get things back in a workable state if things go wrong after the fact.

 

[timeshifter]

a lot of the comments were saying how the new OS's would run terribly slow on the older apple hardware

I've done it a couple of times and it runs pretty good in my experience. Any machine I've done it on has an SSD, so that would play into it. I don't touch anything that has a spinner anymore.

 

[lan101]

I've done it a couple of times and it runs pretty good in my experience. Any machine I've done it on has an SSD, so that would play into it. I don't touch anything that has a spinner anymore.

Yeah I'd imagine if no SSD it'd be insanely awful lol. SSD and 16GB of RAM you'd think would be decently sufficient for most. Probably could even get away with 8GB RAM for super basic users.

Apple always used i5/i7 I think in most of the macbooks so you know processor should be fine. That's one thing I've always liked with Apple is that they don't have any models that used complete junk like an N100 celeron or whatever in the intel era. Those things can't even do basic tasks at a reasonable speed on any junk dell/hp I've ever seen. Even brand new out of the box they just suck lol.

 

[britechguy]

That's one thing I've always liked with Apple is that they don't have any models that used complete junk like an N100 celeron or whatever in the intel era. Those things can't even do basic tasks at a reasonable speed on any junk dell/hp I've ever seen. Even brand new out of the box they just suck lol.

Not that I don't agree with your observations, but comparing Apple's "bottom of the barrel" and various other PC makers' "bottom of the barrel" is comparring Apples to Oranges both in terms of tech specs and cost.

Apple's most basic devices (in any given class) cost way more than basic non-Apple devices do, and, in my opinion, always cost more than a comparably specced device from any reputable maker does.

The Apple premium is real. When you pay more, in tech, you generally get more. But a similarly specced Apple and PC has always, in my experience, cost much more for the Apple product. It's not a premium I am willing to pay (and I actually prefer Windows to MacOS).

 

[lan101]

Not that I don't agree with your observations, but comparing Apple's "bottom of the barrel" and various other PC makers' "bottom of the barrel" is comparring Apples to Oranges both in terms of tech specs and cost.

Apple's most basic devices (in any given class) cost way more than basic non-Apple devices do, and, in my opinion, always cost more than a comparably specced device from any reputable maker does.

The Apple premium is real. When you pay more, in tech, you generally get more. But a similarly specced Apple and PC has always, in my experience, cost much more for the Apple product. It's not a premium I am willing to pay (and I actually prefer Windows to MacOS).

Yeah the apple premium for extra storage or ram is definitely crazy high and now since most if not all devices of their's is non upgradable by the user...I'm not a fan of that. Also prefer windows over mac os too. If I ever for some reason wanted a mac it'd either be a mac mini or something refurbished. I can't see that happening though lol.

 

[Rigo]

If it was my own computer, I would just buy a new one

It's a customer's who uses it to process some musical library components created with a software that is no longer compatible with the newer versions of the software.
She also has a new MacBook with the latest version of the software she uses but she still needs to access the older library which is compatible only up to High Sierra.
Her Mac Pro has 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD with HDMIs and DisplayPorts.
No idea what she paid for the thing but the money could've bought a car I think.

 

[HCHTech]

It's a customer's who uses it to process some musical library components created with a software that is no longer compatible with the newer versions of the software.

Somewhere, there is an upgrade path to get that stuff in the new version. It's probably different and some things have been added and some taken away, but that's life. I would be spending my time & effort on convincing them of this path. Even if you get the old box running, it's not going to just run that way for the next 20 years. Things will break and they will call you. More likely, though, you'll burn way more time than you can bill for and NOT get it working. Been there and done that - don't wish it on anyone else.

 

[britechguy]

Even if you get the old box running, it's not going to just run that way for the next 20 years.

And this is something that we, as IT professionals, are obligated to impress upon our clients in the clearest possible terms.

The fact is that it is simply not possible to use outdated and out of support hardware or software "in perpetuity." There comes a time where one absolutely, positively must let go of one, the other, or both in order to move forward.

Yes, it's painful. It's also essential. I just turned down a 95-year-old who wanted me to try to keep a custom-build Windows 7 era machine going for his daily driver. I just won't do that. It makes no financial sense, it makes no technical sense, it makes no security sense. Just because someone wants something, and desperately, does not mean that a responsible technician will provide it. He was turned down by a number of techs before contacting me, and I actually thought I had convinced him to move to Windows 11, but after a week or so of ongoing DIY attempts to repair his old computer (and he's got repair/maintenance skills far better than many young folks) which were as yet unsuccessful, he reverted back to trying desperately to get this machine back, all the while spouting the same stupid tropes about "the problems with Windows 11" that I remember vividly from when Windows 10 hit the street 11 years ago, and were untrue then. He knows if he changes his mind that I'm ready to pick up where we left off, but on my terms for provision of service.

 

[Philippe]

It's a customer's who uses it to process some musical library components created with a software that is no longer compatible with the newer versions of the software.

RAM test (integrated or external), backup (Time machine), HDD test (integrated or external), upgrade HDD to SSD if old and/or failing, reinstall High Sierra, restore backup. Reinstall apps from scratch if still no go.
Obviously, inform the customer of risks, costs, consequences, etc., etc. to cover your back...

 

[timeshifter]

It's a customer's who uses it to process some musical library components created with a software that is no longer compatible with the newer versions of the software.
She also has a new MacBook with the latest version of the software she uses but she still needs to access the older library which is compatible only up to High Sierra.

You could buy a used, similar MacBook Pro for $200. Do a clean install of High Sierra. Make a Time Machine backup of the old machine (if you can) and migrate to the the computer with Migration Assistant. Or install her old software on the "new" machine. If the issue is that she really needs the old OS to run it there are ways. You could also virtualize a High Sierra using Parallels or Fusion on a newer Intel based Mac.

 

[timeshifter]

The question is: can the old software be reinstalled on another machine? If so then rebuilding like @Philippe is suggesting might be enough. I was suggesting a new computer just to preserve the existing computer.

 

[lan101]

You could buy a used, similar MacBook Pro for $200. Do a clean install of High Sierra. Make a Time Machine backup of the old machine (if you can) and migrate to the the computer with Migration Assistant. Or install her old software on the "new" machine. If the issue is that she really needs the old OS to run it there are ways. You could also virtualize a High Sierra using Parallels or Fusion on a newer Intel based Mac.

With super expensive memory and storage prices now I think many will start looking more heavily into the refurb market...so pretty soon that market will get more expensive I'm sure. I thought it was already getting a little high before all the price increases with everything else but now it looks like a steal in comparison lol.

 

[britechguy]

@lan101, I don't disagree with your assessment of marketplace conditions, both immediately and in the near foreseeable future.

But those of us who've been around the block more than a few times also see this as one in a long series of temporary bubbles that will invariably eventually burst.

The people who are in real trouble are those with actual, "I do have to obtain/replace this now," situations. If they can wait without much or any pain, they'd be well advised to do just that.

 

[timeshifter]

I think I mis read this a bit. You said Mac Pro as in the desktop tower Mac, not a MacBook Pro. All the computers involved are the desktop tower variety?

 

[britechguy]

You said Mac Pro as in the desktop tower Mac

That's not only how I read it, but if you look at the photos, there's an HP monitor and an external keyboard that's clearly not a Mac keyboard, so the only way I "could go" is Mac, not MacBook.