HELP, need windows 7 pro 64

[Choppie]

I'm building a fresh computer for our office that REQUIRES Win7 pro 64.
I'm managing a small warehouse that I've created a very extensive database using MS Access 2003, with many query's and VBA custom macros--it works FLAWLESSLY for exactly what we need it to do, saving me and our team MANY hours of time tracking our inventory.

I've tried porting the back end tables into MS Access 2007 and it was a DISASTER!
I'm currently running office 2003 on an over 10 year old Dell Optiplex 320, win7 pro 32, that is really about to die. I can't even find one on ebay to where I can just pull the system drive and boot it in a new box. However if I did, it would probably be close to the shape my current box is in.

New computer will be very simple, Gigabyte board, i5 9th or 10th gen, 16GB ram, 1TB NVME.

HELP!
Where can I obtain a LEGAL DVD of win7 pro 64 bit either OEM or consumer version with a LEGAL activation KEY???

This will be connecting to windows server to a mapped drive...

Thanks for any help and advice.....I'm actually afraid to start reading the replies. Windows 10 looks like it will be a problem for office 2003 from what I have been reading...

Thanks,
Choppie

 

[Porthos]

New computer will be very simple, Gigabyte board, i5 9th or 10th gen, 16GB ram, 1TB NVME.

I doubt even if you found a Win 7 legit key, It will work on this newer hardware.

 

[britechguy]

It makes a lot more sense to upgrade everything, including the MS-Access application.

It's been a while since I had to bring anything up from Office 2003, but even when I did Access itself did most of the work. Just opening a copy of the existing database covered almost everything, and what it didn't quite cover was easy enough to fix (if you know how, or are quick on your feet - I was a DBA once upon a time, but for Oracle and Sybase databases).

In a business setting this is the kind of "kicking the can down the road" that eventually get's your can kicked.

 

[Sky-Knight]

No choice but to run a VM somewhere that's Win7, you can do it with patch support on Azure.

Also, before you ask... this is a do not pass go moment.

Intel 9th and 10th generation platforms are EFI ONLY. Windows 7 cannot boot EFI without serious modifications you're never going to complete. So you simply cannot install anything older than Windows 8 on the machine you've listed. Windows 7 is dead, you get to develop your app on a new platform, welcome to 2021.

 

[mattsnoddy]

HELP!
Where can I obtain a LEGAL DVD of win7 pro 64 bit either OEM or consumer version with a LEGAL activation KEY???

Without debating on whether it's a good idea or not, eBay has lots of them, many sealed and new in box.

windows 7 pro: Search Result | eBay

Buy and sell electronics, cars, fashion apparel, collectibles, sporting goods, digital cameras, baby items, coupons, and everything else on eBay, the world's online marketplace

www.ebay.com

 

[nlinecomputers]

OEM versions of Windows 10 are legally able to downgrade to Windows 7. To install and activate Windows 7 you can use ANY key that will activate. SO you buy OEM Windows 10 and put its sticker on the box and then use the key on your old Windows 7 to activate a copy of Windows 7 64 bit.

Then you hire an Access DB programmer to get your database up to a modern version. Running a 20-year-old copy is just inviting Mr. Murphey to dinner every night.

 

[Sky-Knight]

My larger concern is the boot loader. The platform in question may ship with a BIOS young enough to make this a full stop won't work!

Generation 9 or 10 Intel gear with a fully up to date BIOS cannot do CSM boot anymore, which means you cannot get legacy boot modes at all. And without legacy boot, Windows 7 simply will not work. You won't even be able to boot the installer! Though I wonder if you could work around that with a 3rd party boot loader...

That's a nontrivial amount of work. If I were to attempt this, I'd get an ebay version of Windows 7 linked above, install Windows 10 (NOT 11!) on the machine, install VirtualBox, and then make a VM for Windows 7. Even if you do what you should to get that app to current... you still might want the old version around and a VM can do that easily.

 

[sapphirescales]

You're going to need a computer with a 6th gen or older CPU. A 9th or 10th gen board won't be compatible with Windows 7 (as in, it won't boot at all - I'm not just talking about drivers). So long as the network is completely isolated from the internet, I see no problem keeping ancient software going. Go on eBay and buy some new old stock parts and build yourself a nice 6th gen system. You can also buy new old stock copies of Windows 7 on eBay, though to be honest, Microsoft isn't enforcing Windows 7 activation anymore (i.e., if you have a legit key, they'll just activate it even if it's been activated before). I just did a native install of Windows 7 Ultimate on my old 2008 MacBook Pro (native, not Boot Camp) and it took my key and activated just fine even though I have it on several other systems (I have a boxed retail copy of Windows 7 Ultimate).

 

[nlinecomputers]

It makes a lot more sense to upgrade everything, including the MS-Access application.

It's been a while since I had to bring anything up from Office 2003, but even when I did Access itself did most of the work. Just opening a copy of the existing database covered almost everything, and what it didn't quite cover was easy enough to fix (if you know how, or are quick on your feet - I was a DBA once upon a time, but for Oracle and Sybase databases).

In a business setting this is the kind of "kicking the can down the road" that eventually get's your can kicked.

This. If you can’t get the upgrade to work yourself then hire a Access DB programmer. I can’t believe that a simple upgrade to the latest db engine would cost more that $800.

 

[Sky-Knight]

This. If you can’t get the upgrade to work yourself then hire a Access DB programmer. I can’t believe that a simple upgrade to the latest db engine would cost more that $800.

I used to think the same thing... until I went to do it and the estimate was $15,000.

Why? Because the dev said it was easier to start over and rebuild the app from scratch than it was to navigate the spaghetti mess of the app we had and try to figure it out.

It greatly depends on how complex the Access app is, the things are notoriously hard to upgrade, and they are NOT portable. Which is why no one in their right mind relies on it anymore. The above quote was sold as an "Access Upgrade" but what he was really doing was building a new web app based on the Access app's process. Because that would actually stand the test of time!

Access sucks...

 

[nlinecomputers]

I used to think the same thing... until I went to do it and the estimate was $15,000.

Why? Because the dev said it was easier to start over and rebuild the app from scratch than it was to navigate the spaghetti mess of the app we had and try to figure it out.

It greatly depends on how complex the Access app is, the things are notoriously hard to upgrade, and they are NOT portable. Which is why no one in their right mind relies on it anymore. The above quote was sold as an "Access Upgrade" but what he was really doing was building a new web app based on the Access app's process. Because that would actually stand the test of time!

Access sucks...

Sounds like you didn’t really find an Access DB programer. Just someone who can rip the data from the DB and code his web app. While that certainly is probably a better option it doesn’t mean it can’t be done. “Thanks for your quote. NEXT”

 

[Sky-Knight]

Sounds like you didn’t really find an Access DB programer. Just someone who can rip the data from the DB and code his web app. While that certainly is probably a better option it doesn’t mean it can’t be done. “Thanks for your quote. NEXT”

The gentleman in question is a good friend of mine that's forgotten more about Access than I'll ever know, he also programs in about 15 other languages. He's personally responsible for billing and automation systems larger than anything the two of us have ever built combined. His career is marked by removing access apps from government offices... this is what he does.

So no... I'll trust his judgement on this and not some Fiver guy that says he can upgrade it via save as. I have no doubt some apps can be upgraded this way, but some cannot.

 

[Choppie]

Sorry guys, for some reason I wasn't getting notifications of reply's...

 

[britechguy]

The gentleman in question is a good friend of mine that's forgotten more about Access than I'll ever know

But you said he wanted to code a web app. There are many "in Access" apps, and that sounds like what's being described in the original message. There is no hint that Access is interacting with anything outside itself.

That should not cost anywhere near to $15K to bring forward to a current version of MS-Access.

A web app coded on top of Access is apples and oranges compared to an "in Access only" system. [I actually use a primitive one of those for tracking maintenance and expenses on my various vehicles].

But, regardless of cost, if this business intends to continue using this system, they need to spend the money to bring it into a currently supported version of MS-Access, and continue to do that as needed. This is the perfect example of why nursing the ancient along in a business setting, unless absolutely necessary (and sometimes it is), is a horrible idea. You eventually get clobbered if you don't.

 

[Choppie]

The gentleman in question is a good friend of mine that's forgotten more about Access than I'll ever know, he also programs in about 15 other languages. He's personally responsible for billing and automation systems larger than anything the two of us have ever built combined. His career is marked by removing access apps from government offices... this is what he does.

So no... I'll trust his judgement on this and not some Fiver guy that says he can upgrade it via save as. I have no doubt some apps can be upgraded this way, but some cannot.

I think the reason it's so expensive is, it's an almost impossible task to go through someones work and decode what was in their head at the time the project was created. I know many times when I go to a job site where it has many years of different people "working on" their network and patching this and that, and installing new gear and leaving old audio and video equipment half baked into the system....it's a nightmare, wires crossing everywhere to the point where its more cost effective to rip out the whole system and install fresh with new cables and new updated gear.

I can see where this would apply to a database and user front end UI, which is what I'm facing right now. Looks like I'm going to install a win 10 pro box on the network with the latest version of MS Access and start playing all over again, saving what tables i can.

No choice but to run a VM somewhere that's Win7, you can do it with patch support on Azure.

Also, before you ask... this is a do not pass go moment.

Intel 9th and 10th generation platforms are EFI ONLY. Windows 7 cannot boot EFI without serious modifications you're never going to complete. So you simply cannot install anything older than Windows 8 on the machine you've listed. Windows 7 is dead, you get to develop your app on a new platform, welcome to 2021.

THANK YOU Sky-Night, for forcing me to accept the inevitable...

We do custom home theaters, window shades, lighting, security cameras which some have facial recognition that require licensing with some databases that let the client know exactly who and what contractors are on their property. Many of the homes are on A1A in South Florida. I keep track of even the racks screws that we send out to a job by bags of 20 each Middle Atlantic. So, you can imagine the database. Parts ordered, received, sighed out, returned, RMA issues, by PO number, part number, job number, client name, job name...... I've even incorporated a bar code scanner to help automate some common inventory checking processes.

To rebuild this over from the beginning will be a ....... I'm trying to find some polite words...

I'm going ahead with the repair of one office computer, which seems to be pretty good, HP, AMD, 16GB of ram. I installed a spare SSD last night and loaded windows 10, which was VERY strange how it came about. Without being connected to the internet, the dvd wouldnt let me choose which version to install....it only loaded win10 home. I then bought a KEY and it was a hell of a hassell upgrading to 10 pro. It first upgraded to 10 enterprise and then said the key wasn't valid....after many reboots and updates it now shows activated windows 10 pro.... If all goes well and the board and all is stable, I'll install a fresh new 1TB ssd and mirror my current work and go from there.

I'll keep all posted on my updates... I'm going to try MS Access 2003 at first and see how it rolls...

thanks everyone...awesome comments and advice...

choppie

 

[Sky-Knight]

@Choppie I have gotten Access 2003, 2007, and 2010 runtimes to work on Windows 10 by the way.

The full versions should work too... there are some rubs though. Access 2010 is the last version of Access that supports working with Borland DBIV DBs for example...

The laundry list is huge. And yes, this is a monstrous project. So again I'm back to... get something young enough you can trust to make it work for now, even if that's Windows 7 in a VM on a desktop somewhere. But you do need to drag it forward... You've basically fallen off the back end of what's possible and while we can get you back to holding on by your fingernails status... that's not a place anyone wants to be for long.

P.S. Yes, I'm aware of how much of an impossible task it was... I was the poor sod responsible for debugging and expanding that old mess at the time. It took DAYS OF WORK just to fix a logic error in some cells that did percentage math and created a tiny rounding error. I do NOT miss it. And yes, my buddy told me... I'll spend less time starting over, than figuring out whatever is there.

@britechguy Single user web apps are actually easy to containerize and deploy to single systems... far more so than Access is these days.

 

[NviGate Systems]

Unless something has changed, Windows 7 AMD64 has supported EFI boot for some time. I used to build those all the time when clients had Windows 8 boxes and wanted to downgrade to 7.

Unless something weird has happened.....don't get it.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@NviGate Systems CSM EFI, and only early revisions of it. It's not native.

I've had tons of those systems that would work with EFI boot on Win7/8 but then fail to do so with Win 10. iSeries 1/2 EFI was weird.... Intel didn't get to the standardized place where most OS's could work with it natively until 4th gen.

These options simply do not exist on Gen 9 and 10 platforms... so you cannot boot Win7 on them. As was indicated above 6th gen was the last supported option for Win7.

 

[NviGate Systems]

Ok, thanks for the update. It's been a while working with Windows 7.

 

[Markverhyden]

You can't traverse 18 years of technology in one or two hops. Especially a M$ technology. This isn't Word or Excel. The nickel solution to the not a dime problem would be to VM it. But that doesn't address the real problem. It's 18 year old technology. It's far better to be in charge of the change than to let the change be in charge. As in the machine croaks and you're doing the chinese fire drill loosing money the whole time.

If it was me I'd VM it as a bandaid and then get someone to work on getting it ported over. It won't be cheap, but it's the correct path. The further you stay in the past the higher the walls grow.