Another method for avoiding using a Microsoft account during setup

[nlinecomputers]

And I hate to say this, but it is true: You can't fix stupid.

Yep. What is amazing is that these people do manage to recover their Facebook accounts as they post on FB the demise of their phone and put out the plea of if you know me please send me your contact info. Probably because the new phone has the same phone number, you can text a code and gain access. They can't do that with their Gmail/Apple account because they don't know the email address login they were assigned. Ironically I've even had relatives regain access to the original Gmail which they only access on their computer because they didn't know how to set it up on the phone and didn't go back to the store. They are astonished when I am able to set it up and suddenly their old contact and photos reappear.

 

[britechguy]

They are astonished when I am able to set it up and suddenly their old contact and photos reappear.

And I have no doubt, none whatsoever, that after "this miracle occurs" you explain to them why it is not, in fact, a miracle and what they need to know for when they decide to dump this device for the next one.

Even if they brain purge this information, you have done your part to try to stop a repetition.

 

[Blues]

I have an iPhone and I had iCloud turned off and disabled, it got rid of the annoying out of space messages for a service I will never pay for, until I setup to track our kids phone now it is on but most things are still disabled for me with it. I find iOS users lose things less often as many people still have setup to prompt for password when purchasing, which is a good idea, while most Android users just use it and never know if they have any cloud setup. I just backup my contacts to my PC which is backed up.

 

[Sky-Knight]

That miracle of cloud storage just putting it all back is why I push M365 so hard. As long as the user is actively using the email address in question, it works really well.

 

[frase]

That miracle of cloud storage just putting it all back is why I push M365 so hard. As long as the user is actively using the email address in question, it works really well.

Microsoft must be proud. This is what they are pushing, and what I dislike. Do we rent windows next?
Business need 365, home users do not; there is no parity between according to MS.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Microsoft must be proud. This is what they are pushing, and what I dislike. Do we rent windows next?
Business need 365, home users do not; there is no parity between according to MS.

That's not true. Plenty of home users need M365. If you have kids in school having Office on 6 PCs plus Onedrive storage is a no brainier. Who needs a backup service when you get all that?

 

[fincoder]

Is that true for Windows 11? And that's a serious question, as I thought I had recalled reports here that even when the tricks that can be used to go direct to a local account when setting up Windows 11 still resulted in a box with encryption on.

Probably because local account login PLUS Microsoft account saved for use of apps has the same effect as Microsoft account login in almost every regard.

 

[britechguy]

Plenty of home users need M365. If you have kids in school having Office on 6 PCs plus Onedrive storage is a no brainier.

I am not arguing this point. But there are a very great many home users where nothing even vaguely like this situation exists.

I don't have a single client with a 6 PC household. I have some with 6 device households, but some of those devices are typically tablets and smartphones.

You simply can't beat M365 in the scenario you describe. It would take years of annual subscription fees to come close to the cost of buying standalone Office for six computers.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I am not arguing this point. But there are a very great many home users where nothing even vaguely like this situation exists.

I don't have a single client with a 6 PC household. I have some with 6 device households, but some of those devices are typically tablets and smartphones.

You simply can't beat M365 in the scenario you describe. It would take years of annual subscription fees to come close to the cost of buying standalone Office for six computers.

And where can you get 1TB of online storage for 6 users for only $9.99 month? And then add free Office always updated to the latest version. Just for the ransomware protection it’s worth it even if you never touch office. Even if you only have one PC you can set up individual accounts so that Dad can keep his stuff separate from Mom and Billy can keep his stuff separate from Sally.

 

[timeshifter]

It's crazy to think (unless I'm counting wrong?) that you can get 30 installs of Office for $99 per year - original user plus shared to 5 others, each can have up to 5 installs.

 

[nlinecomputers]

It's crazy to think (unless I'm counting wrong?) that you can get 30 installs of Office for $99 per year - original user plus shared to 5 others, each can have up to 5 installs.

Your counting wrong. The family version only allows 1 device per user on the assumption that devices are shared. Only business versions allow 5 per user.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Microsoft must be proud. This is what they are pushing, and what I dislike. Do we rent windows next?
Business need 365, home users do not; there is no parity between according to MS.

You've ALWAYS rented Windows. Never at any point in your life have you ever "owned" any software... ever. Even Free Open Source Software (FOSS) is rented, in accordance to the license agreement.

@nlinecomputers This is false, The Family subscription has an invitation system for up to 5 other accounts, for a total of 6 human beings, each with up to 5 devices. That's $100 / year.

Buy Microsoft 365 Family (formerly Office 365) - Subscription Price, Download | Microsoft Store

The Microsoft 365 Family subscription delivers powerful productivity apps, premium features, extra cloud storage, and advanced security. Up to 6 users. For PC, Mac, iPhone, iPad and Android. Learn about features, pricing and how to buy.

www.microsoft.com

One convenient subscription for up to 6 people. Includes premium Office apps, up to 6TB of cloud storage – 1 TB per person – and advanced security for all your devices.

With Microsoft 365 Family you and the people you share with can:

Access smart assistance features, plus hundreds of premium templates, photos, icons, and fonts in Word, Excel, and PowerPoint
Save and share files and photos across devices with OneDrive
Experience advanced security protection in OneDrive and Outlook
Set location alerts in the Microsoft Family Safety mobile app*
Each person can use the subscription on up to 5 devices at the same time
Contact support via chat or phone at no extra cost throughout your subscription

Note, Microsoft assumes you're going to be signing in to any given machine with an account that's unique per human, NOT sharing accounts. This fact is often lost on end users, and it screws things up... I think that's where you're getting the issues that make you think it won't work!

M365 MUST BE one user per local user profile on each Windows device!

My kids use a mix of Google Apps and M365 on their school laptops to do all their work. Do you think anything in those endpoints is locally stored? No... Why? Because "the computer ate my homework" isn't a viable excuse. And it's not a viable excuse anymore for all the same reasons all sane people store their junk in such systems.

 

[nlinecomputers]

This is false, The Family subscription has an invitation system for up to 5 other accounts, for a total of 6 human beings, each with up to 5 devices. That's $100 / year.

Ok even so it doesn't matter because in reality, M$ doesn't really care how many computers you install it on. When you install it for the sixth time Microsoft just deactivates the oldest seen install. Should you go back to it you get a "not activated" prompt that you fix with a click of a button and then the oldest seen version at that point deactivates. You can only have 5 activated copies but you can install more than that. You just can't use more than 5 at the same time. It's kind of like how Quickbooks operates. Only licensed copies can have a file open but you can install as many copies as you want.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Ok even so it doesn't matter because in reality, M$ doesn't really care how many computers you install it on. When you install it for the sixth time Microsoft just deactivates the oldest seen install. Should you go back to it you get a "not activated" prompt that you fix with a click of a button and then the oldest seen version at that point deactivates. You can only have 5 activated copies but you can install more than that. You just can't use more than 5 at the same time. It's kind of like how Quickbooks operates. Only licensed copies can have a file open but you can install as many copies as you want.

Yep! And it only applies to platforms running MacOS and Windows, you can have as many iOS and Android endpoints you want on an account. The model is wonky, and enforcement basically doesn't exist.

This system only really exists to try to prevent tightwads from using a single user on 20 machines.

 

[frase]

I use Kali, and is totally free

@Sky-Knight in regards to Windows, I paid and I own a licence for the product, I see your point.

 

[Sky-Knight]

I use Kali, and is totally free

@Sky-Knight in regards to Windows, I paid and I own a licence for the product, I see your point.

You've agreed to a license to the product, which entitles you to a specific use within a specific period of time.

You leased it... with a single up front payment. There is no owning. There SHOULD be owning... but there is none of that. We have no digital property rights.

I'm not even sure what ownership would look like in this case. If Windows was a house, and you needed to re-roof it... how would you do that exactly?

 

[NviGate Systems]

Owning it would mean no activation...ever...on any PC....ever.

 

[britechguy]

Owning it would mean no activation...ever...on any PC....ever.

And would make no sense, either. Software in general, and OSes in particular, require fairly constant care and feeding to keep them viable. I didn't do the coding to create any one of them, I am not responsible (and could not possibly be responsible) for maintaining them, I don't own them in any meaningful sense. Their respective creators do.

You don't even own open-source software, unless you were to choose to fork something and take over that entire project. There are licenses that allow use, but not ownership, in the general case.

Piracy in the digital age has been a problem almost since day one. I do not begrudge any individual or company their intellectual property rights and the right to sell licenses to use their products. That's different than ownership of said products.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Owning it would mean no activation...ever...on any PC....ever.

That's simply an absence of license enforcement, not ownership.

Ownership imparts responsibility, and again I'm back to the home ownership analog. If the main sewer line connecting your home to the city breaks, you get to dig it up and fix it. You can pay someone to do that, but you're on the hook. The city will get upset with you if you leave raw sewage in your lawn for extended periods, so there's laws for that and stuff like it.

If we apply the same set of laws and ideas we use on homes to software, every individual owner would be responsible for the digital damage caused by security faults in the software. And since no one can write patches for a product themselves, even with code access... things would get ugly fast.

Which of course is why all software operates on a timed lease. And the "subscriptions" are just a shorter duration than the "perpetual" licenses. A term I hate because such things are simply not perpetual in any way.

So do you want to lease your software monthly, annually, semi-annually, biannually, triannually, quinquennially?

It's all just numbers games setting a duration of lease, because the operator cannot and will not take ownership responsibility. Even FOSS software does this, it just doesn't demand payment up front. It instead operates as a nonprofit soliciting donations of time or money to continue. But the lease is still there, renewing annually in most cases, and not enforced monetarily.

 

[Philippe]

Which of course is why all software operates on a timed lease.

Still using my 30+ years old games