Weird (Possibly Memory?) Issue

[sapphirescales]

I'm working on a brand new custom build for a client and have run into a weird problem. The first thing I noticed was that my video card was displaying artifacts on my screen while I was installing Windows. It was my test graphics card (just a cheap Nvidia 710) so I shrugged and replaced it with a brand new 1030 and the graphics artifacts went away. Then after installing some Windows updates the computer wouldn't POST. The light on the motherboard lit up indicating a memory issue. I removed one stick of RAM and it fired right up. Then I put both sticks back in and ran memtest. It passed with flying colors. Then I ran PC Doctor Service Center on it and it completely froze up during the memory test (bootable linux environment).

Then I replaced the RAM with different sticks (different size and brand) and ran my PC Doctor Service Center diagnostics on it. It passed. To make sure I had a memory issue, I put the suspected bad sticks back in and ran it through PC Doctor Service Center again and it passed! UGH! I'm starting to wonder if I have an actual memory issue or maybe an issue with the slots/memory controller on the motherboard. The graphics artifacts thing was really weird. I also got a BSOD of Kernel_Security_Check_Failure with the original RAM in there.

What do you think?

 

[GTP]

I suspect a memory controller issue.
Have you got a spare board you can try?
Have you physically inspected the ram slots for detritus that might have fallen in to the slot?
I had a hair (believe it it or not) in a ram slot that did weird stuff.

 

[sapphirescales]

I suspect a memory controller issue.

It's a Ryzen system. Isn't the memory controller located in the CPU or something? I'm not up to date on the latest low level stuff.

 

[GTP]

I'm not sure.
I havent built an AMD system for years now. AMD cant get their shite together with heat/power consumption issues so I avoid them.
Still, I would try another CPU if that's the case.
Also try another board if you have one?

 

[frase]

Had nothing but issues with AMD systems, have you checked a BIOS update? What is the motherboard and CPU model?

 

[nlinecomputers]

Replace the PSU before you do anything else. Dirty power can cause all your symptoms.

 

[Philippe]

Intermittent RAM failure. As you found out, 1 RAM stick need to be replaced.
(+ BAD test graphic card, but that's another story.)

 

[sapphirescales]

My client needs this system urgently so I've decided to just swap out everything and start over. This is why I charge what I do. You've got to account for all the non-billable hours. I've put 4+ hours into troubleshooting this thing, not including the overnight memory diagnostics I've run three times and I'm still no closer to finding the culprit. I don't have time for this BS and neither does my client. I'm certainly not sending it out the door like this.

 

[nlinecomputers]

That's why I don't custom build. Nobody except a gammer needs a custom build anymore. Dell, HP, and Lenovo all build excellent high end workstations.

 

[sapphirescales]

That's why I don't custom build. Nobody except a gammer needs a custom build anymore. Dell, HP, and Lenovo all build excellent high end workstations.

I don't know about your market but I have a LOT of clients who need high end computers. Nobody who actually uses their computer professionally should be using the proprietary turds Dell or HP crap out. It's extremely rare to have a problem like this. I'm 90% sure it's memory related because the RAM the client wanted me to use was 3600Mhz Patriot memory and I've never used that memory before, but I just can't risk sending the system out when the problem is so intermittent. You have to actually use the computer for a few days in order to see if it's fixed or not and I just can't do that. This client is spending almost $7,000 on this system so I'm not comfortable sending it out the door and having them try to use it, have it fail, then they come back, we swap something else out, etc. I'm making almost $2,500 in profit from this build so I can afford to build it again.

This lady does 4K video editing, gaming, music production, illustration work, etc. She actually needs 128GB of RAM and multiple NVMe SSDs. She's a past client. I build her a new computer every 2-3 years. She wasn't even phased by the high price of the graphics card. To her, it's just a business expense.

I'm using different memory and a different motherboard this time. If it was due to a compatibility issue, then that will fix it. I'm going with a higher wattage power supply too, but that's just because the original power supply I got is no longer in stock.

 

[britechguy]

Nobody who actually uses their computer professionally should be using the proprietary turds Dell or HP crap out.

Sorry, but no. Hell to the no!

There is nothing wrong with the business class machines from either of those makers, and a number of others, and the warranty coverage the owner gets is better than anything they can even hope for with most (note most) custom builds.

I avoid custom builds whenever it's possible to do so and make no apology for that, either. And I certainly wouldn't custom build were someone to ask me to.

 

[sapphirescales]

@britechguy A few years ago I might have agreed with you, but the proprietary crap Dell and HP are putting out nowadays is disgraceful. Dell's cases don't even have a removable I/O shield and they use proprietary connectors on the motherboard. The power supplies are also proprietary. That means that any repair beyond SSD/RAM is going to take days/weeks instead of hours unless you've got Dell's emergency 4 hour response time warranty (assuming they still offer that). I would NEVER recommend a computer with proprietary components to a professional user. It's not even a good idea for granny who only uses the computer to watch funny cat videos and play Solitaire, let alone an actual professional.

 

[nlinecomputers]

@britechguy A few years ago I might have agreed with you, but the proprietary crap Dell and HP are putting out nowadays is disgraceful. Dell's cases don't even have a removable I/O shield and they use proprietary connectors on the motherboard. The power supplies are also proprietary. That means that any repair beyond SSD/RAM is going to take days/weeks instead of hours unless you've got Dell's emergency 4 hour response time warranty (assuming they still offer that). I would NEVER recommend a computer with proprietary components to a professional user. It's not even a good idea for granny who only uses the computer to watch funny cat videos and play Solitaire, let alone an actual professional.

Yes Dell offers 4 hr service. And you can order their power supplies from a number of vendors or directly from Dell and get them overnight. You also can buy one and put it on your shelves. If your pad is really as thick as you claim then having a set of standard Dell parts would not be a problem. And many Dell high end workstations are in server form factors are support hot swap redundant PSUs. And honestly a couple of days to fix a PC is perfectly acceptable.

 

[britechguy]

And honestly a couple of days to fix a PC is perfectly acceptable.

Yup. Anyone who thinks "same day service" is the norm for diagnosing and fixing any significant problem with a "dead" computer is delusional.

Proper care and due diligence require time, and if you want both of those things you, as a customer, should be ready to grant that time.

Not everything is, or should be, instantaneous. Your repair technicians have (or should have) what used to be called personal time and a personal lives, too. There is such a thing as it waiting until tomorrow (or even next week, if it's not mission critical).

 

[sapphirescales]

@nlinecomputers I currently don't sell many prebuilt systems unless they're special order. Overnight shipping has been a problem for over a year now thanks to Coronavirus. Yeah, I guess I could stock a proprietary power supply, but what about the motherboard? Those change all the time. And most of my clients don't need or want workstation CPUs. Besides, my "pad" as you call it, would be a lot smaller if I was giving it all to Dell.

a couple of days to fix a PC is perfectly acceptable.

That depends on the client and how urgently they need their computer. A stock trader can't be without their computer for even a few hours, let alone days (unless the market is closed, of course). Some business equipment is absolutely essential for the business to actually function, yet it needs a computer to run. And some clients are so addicted to their games that they can't live without their computer for more than a day. I want the freedom and flexibility to just pull a part off my shelf and throw it in.

If this RAM issue had cropped up months or years after I built the system, I absolutely would have just replaced the RAM and there's a 99.999999999% chance it would have fixed it. Why? Because that's the most likely component to fail. The problem is when you're dealing with a brand new custom build, EVERYTHING has an equal chance of being bad and since the symptoms caused by this RAM issue could literally be caused by almost every part in the computer, there's no way to be sure you've gotten it fixed until you swap the parts and try to use it for a few days/weeks.

Your repair technicians have (or should have) what used to be called personal time and a personal lives

They do, and so do I, but if a client is willing to pay for emergency after-hours service, I'm willing to provide.

 

[nlinecomputers]

If you sell Dells then stock Dell parts solves that problem. If a trader really needs that kind of uptime then he needs to invest in redundant equipment. Not your problem except as an opportunity to upsell.

 

[britechguy]

but if a client is willing to pay for emergency after-hours service, I'm willing to provide.

Indeed. But you are one of the people who has the most unrealistic about the speed with which things should be delivered (literally for goods, and as well for services) as a matter of normal course.

Most things are not emergencies. Too many treat inconveniences as crises. They need to be told otherwise. [And in cases of real mission criticality, redundancy should be built in, so down time on a redundant unit is not an emergency, though it should be handled as promptly as is reasonably possible.]

 

[sapphirescales]

If you sell Dells then stock Dell parts solves that problem

And how many different motherboards does Dell come out with in a year? 10? 15? 20? If I buy one, it will only work with that ONE model. I'd get stuck with a bunch of old motherboards that I couldn't even use in another system because Dell insists on building the I/O shield into their cases. That combined with the much lower profit margin makes selling Dells sound like a nightmare.

Back when Dell and HP stuck with the standards we've had for 20+ years they were a solid option. Now, I can't recommend them. I still deploy Optiplexes and such to larger business clients because it's so much easier than trying to build 50+ computers, but I'd prefer to buy something that uses standardized components. I've thought about partnering with Velocity Micro or another builder, but I always fall back on my Dell rep when this situation comes up.

 

[Markverhyden]

Indeed. But you are one of the people who has the most unrealistic about the speed with which things should be delivered (literally for goods, and as well for services) as a matter of normal course.

Most things are not emergencies. Too many treat inconveniences as crises. They need to be told otherwise. [And in cases of real mission criticality, redundancy should be built in, so down time on a redundant unit is not an emergency, though it should be handled as promptly as is reasonably possible.]

When I'm presented with a customer "emergency" I'll present the emergency rates. Can't remember a single customer who gave me the green light. All of a sudden it can wait a few days, after the weekend, when I can get around to it.

 

[Sky-Knight]

I haven't had a mainboard fault in litterally years. I get PSUs wigging out, drives failing, etc. But I get used Optiplex's, toss in an SSD, install Windows and send them out the doors. They vanish... never to return. Nothing but happy users.

And the time Dell Command alone saves me when installing Windows keeps me doing it. I can install a system fresh, with all the client's requested apps, Windows Updates, as well as current BIOS / drivers in 15min.

There's no way you're getting anywhere near that with a white box.