Weird (Possibly Memory?) Issue

[sapphirescales]

There's no way you're getting anywhere near that with a white box.

You'd be surprised. I use up to date images of Windows so all I have to do is download a few drivers and install Office and I'm good to go. If they have some sort of weird proprietary software that makes things harder, of course, but most of my clients only have a few programs they use and those are: Chrome/Firefox, Office, Antivirus, Printer. If they have something more advanced like the Adobe suite, I leave that for them to install. No, the main thing that makes custom builds a pain in the a$$ is actually building them. Then again, you're not getting anywhere near the margin on a prebuilt that I make on a custom, so it's worth the extra work.

 

[GTP]

I've had more problemswith Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer etc proprietary systems than I've ever had with custom builds.
Just my experience and the main reason I dont supply them.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@sapphirescales If I could get the margin, I'd love to white box. I'm quite good at it, I just don't get to do it for anyone but myself. People here are cheap.

 

[sapphirescales]

I've had more problemswith Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer etc proprietary systems than I've ever had with custom builds.

Ditto. That combined with the recent trend of OEMs moving away from the standards makes them a really bad deal. Who wants a desktop where you can't upgrade the motherboard or the power supply? If there's a failure you're stuck trying to find a replacement and hoping Dell even has one. If not, then it's off to eBay. The alternative is to buy a new motherboard, case, & power supply and rebuild the computer from scratch using standardized components. I recently did this with an Alienware that came in here. The guy had an awesome processor, great graphics card, etc. but the motherboard died and it was backordered from Dell so I just rebuilt the entire thing with a new motherboard, power supply, and case. It was really expensive, but not as expensive as buying a new one. Still, he shouldn't have had to do that. Dell should stay with the standard so a technician like myself can just swap out the motherboard with another standard mATX motherboard.

 

[sapphirescales]

@Sky-Knight If your clients really are that cheap then don't they look up the Optiplex or whatever you provided for them on Amazon and demand you price match? If not, then they're not as cheap as you think. Sure, you might not be building $3,000+ systems, but there's plenty of margin in the $1,000 range too. You've just got to sell them on the idea. A decent Optiplex is close to $1,000 so it shouldn't be that hard.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@sapphirescales They are that cheap, and yes they do lookup their own prices. It's just that they can't get what I'm selling at the price I'm selling it at.

 

[sapphirescales]

@sapphirescales They are that cheap, and yes they do lookup their own prices. It's just that they can't get what I'm selling at the price I'm selling it at.

So you're selling cheaper than Amazon? Ouch. My margins on a prebuilt are terrible. I can't imagine trying to beat Amazon's price.

I can easily build a system for $500 and sell it for $1,000. They're easy as sin to build too. Stock cooler, basic case, few additional components, etc. I can complete an easy build in under 30 minutes.

 

[Nathan Igo]

This is a prime example of why I quit building systems and went with prebuilt. Luckily I have a Microcenter locally and their systems usually come in cheaper then if I were to just buy the parts themselves. The systems area all built with off the shelf parts so upgrade and maintenance is no problem and for these off issues they have a 48hr guarantee return for 1 year.

I typically just try to keep a new mid range system on the shelf to swap it out for clients that need a system there during return if it has to go back to Microcenter. For everyone saying stick with Dell for their support or whatever ( which has been great when needed ) the big selling point is to the clients. I can outfit client (that actually need some power) with 10 employees with new Microcenter systems for about $8k cheaper versus going with Dell for similar specs and their proprietary crap that is pointless to stock. Even if I didn't have a Microcenter here I would probably still build most computers just for the sake of maintenance for all except just the outlook and excel users.

 

[NJW]

If I buy one, it will only work with that ONE model.

If it's a mission-critical machine, it's up to the customer to have the spares on hand, not you. If they don't want to do that, then either:
- it's not really mission-critical, or
- you charge a recurring fee to have spares on hand on their behalf.

It's just another aspect of their disaster recovery plan.

 

[Diggs]

The power supplies are also proprietary.

Wait? What? When did this start again? They did this 20 years ago and got burned for it (and I was one that wouldn't touch Dell for years because of it). I have a couple of Optiplexs (390 and 3010) and I see they run standard power supplies?

 

[nlinecomputers]

Wait? What? When did this start again? They did this 20 years ago and got burned for it (and I was one that wouldn't touch Dell for years because of it). I have a couple of Optiplexs (390 and 3010) and I see they run standard power supplies?

Consider the source of that statement…..

 

[sapphirescales]

If it's a mission-critical machine, it's up to the customer to have the spares on hand, not you. If they don't want to do that, then either:
- it's not really mission-critical, or
- you charge a recurring fee to have spares on hand on their behalf.

It's just another aspect of their disaster recovery plan.

That's a ridiculous attitude. It's not reasonable for OEMs to expect people to keep spare parts on hand because they refuse to conform to the standard. NO ONE else does that. Does your car manufacturer insist that you keep spare parts for your car in your garage because they refuse to stock parts themselves? No, that would be ridiculous. I will never recommend a computer that uses non-standardized parts.

Luckily I have a Microcenter locally and their systems usually come in cheaper then if I were to just buy the parts themselves. The systems area all built with off the shelf parts so upgrade and maintenance is no problem and for these off issues they have a 48hr guarantee return for 1 year.

I'd love to do that, but the problem is price matching. Clients would be able to easily look up how much a PowerSpec system costs and would feel cheated. If they didn't put their logo on there then I'd be happy buying PowerSpec systems. They don't use the highest quality parts, but they're 1000x better than anything Dell or HP craps out. Maybe I could buy a decal or something with my logo on it that would cover the PowerSpec logo. I don't know. That sounds kind of seedy. God forbid a client discovered the PowerSpec logo underneath.

 

[sapphirescales]

Consider the source of that statement…..

Just looked up an Optiplex 390. Proprietary power supply. Yes, I know that some other manufacturers use this size of power supply as well, but it's not an off the shelf component and maxes out at like 250 watts or something. Basically it's trash. And this doesn't negate what I said about the motherboard I/O shield being built into the case itself. OEMs are designing computers that are literally disposable and anyone who defends this has no right to call themselves a technician.

I have a couple of Optiplexs (390 and 3010) and I see they run standard power supplies?

If you call those weird slim power supplies that cap out at like 250 watts "standard" then I don't know what to tell you. It's only a matter of time before they remove the 4/24 pin motherboard connectors for something proprietary. There's a new connection standard that's coming out to replace the 24 pin connector, but I can guarantee you Dell/HP and other OEMs won't adopt it. It's just too profitable to make proprietary junk.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Does your car manufacturer insist that you keep spare parts for your car in your garage because they refuse to stock parts themselves? No, that would be ridiculous. I will never recommend a computer that uses non-standardized parts.

No, mechanics do not keep parts on hand. Because nothing is standard in the auto industry between brands. You don’t put Chevy parts in a Ford. This is why auto part stores exist. The PC industry is far more standardized. Even what you claim is not a standard is one.

If you call those weird slim power supplies that cap out at like 250 watts "standard" then I don't know what to tell you.

They are standard Form Factors used by many companies not just Dell. https://www.tomshardware.com/features/pc-form-factor-basics. Not everyone wants a damn ATX tank underneath the desk.

 

[sapphirescales]

Not everyone wants a damn ATX tank underneath the desk.

They're putting them in cases the same size as an mATX case. They never used to do this crap before and it's inexcusable in anything that's not a SFF. And it's laughable you calling mATX a "tank." Who the heck doesn't have room for a small tower under the desk? I'm not expecting everyone to have full ATX towers here, but standardized parts are extremely important. It's also important that you're able to upgrade the power supply if you want to run a better graphics card.

They are standard Form Factors

What is the form factor actually called? It's not listed in the link you provided. It's not a TFX or narrow SFX. The dimensions are all wrong. They might be used in the OEM industry but it's not an actual open standard as far as I'm aware of. They're also pittly pieces of junk that only put out 250 watts or so. Good luck upgrading to a better graphics card unless you go with something terrible like a GT 1030. Some 1650's don't require power, but most do. But honestly, I wouldn't feel safe using a 250 watt power supply with a 1650. The 1650 can draw up to 80 watts, which leaves only 170 watts for the rest of the computer.

 

[NJW]

It's not reasonable for OEMs to expect people to keep spare parts on hand because they refuse to conform to the standard. NO ONE else does that.

You need to get out more. It's very common in industry, where, for example, production machines must keep going. The OEM will either include a spares pack in the quote or offer bonded stock on site (for a fee) and invoice if/when that stock is used.

More so for military supplies, where there will be lists for 7-day, 30-day, 6-month deployments, for example. That's the difference between mission-critical and your self-entitled customers.

If you call those weird slim power supplies that cap out at like 250 watts "standard" then I don't know what to tell you.

They're standard for a wide range of models and 250 W is fine if that's what the machine needs. The whole concept of a given OEM's range of offers is for commercial customers who buy or lease big inventory lists with OEM support. The OEM will have parts on 4 hours availability, if a customer pays for that kind of support.

250 W is what's required for the machine, as ordered. The OEM lists supported options, which may include one or two different graphics cards, that will fit within the PSU spec. If you want something more powerful, you start with a workstation, not a SFF chassis.

They never used to do this crap before ...

That's what happens when an industry becomes mature. Parts are optimised for the application and engineered down to what's needed, instead of drawing from a pool of standard components. There was a time when you had to add option cards for network, sound, run-of-the-mill graphics, mass storage ports, serial ports, parallel ports and more. Nowadays, those functions are mostly either integrated on the motherboard or just need a port connecting to a motherboard header. There are plenty of examples of processor, RAM and mass storage fully integrated on the motherboard, too, and not just in laptops.

 

[sapphirescales]

@NJW You're comparing apples to oranges. Dear lord, you're talking about military grade equipment? I'm talking about home and small business clients. This is completely unacceptable. Just because something isn't mission critical doesn't mean that it shouldn't conform to standards and be easy and affordable to repair. And have you seen a modern OEM computer recently? Even their mATX systems use these underpowered crap non-standardized power supplies. There is absolutely NO reason for this except greed. They want the computers to be disposable so the customer just buys another one. SFF systems have always used those tiny power supplies, and that's fine. That's the price you pay for going with a SFF computer.

People's needs change. I used to be able to upgrade normal Dells and HP's with a gaming graphics card when a client's kids got into gaming or whatever because the case was a standard mATX case with support for a graphics card and a higher wattage power supply. Now their only option is to buy a new computer - exactly what the OEMs want.

Nowadays, those functions are mostly either integrated on the motherboard or just need a port connecting to a motherboard header.

Yes, but they serve the exact same function that they did before and it's not costing customers any more money to integrate it all into the motherboard. But imagine if integrating them into the motherboard forced people to buy expensive docking stations in order to use those ports and the ONLY reason the OEMs did this was to sell expensive docking stations. Using garbage, proprietary components is extremely sleazy on the part of OEMs and they should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[britechguy]

This is completely unacceptable. Just because something isn't mission critical doesn't mean that it shouldn't conform to standards and be easy and affordable to repair.

But it's been standard business practice for a long time now.

Your obsession with something being proprietary, versus off-the-shelf, when either part is available, promptly, and with no massive price differential, is both idiosyncratic and stupid.

You work with what's commercially produced. Period. End of Sentence. Now shut up about the proprietary parts, as this is and had been common practice since well before you were born!

 

[Diggs]

Now shut up about the proprietary parts

Rambus, RIP......

 

[Sky-Knight]

I just cracked open one of the Optiplex 5040 SFFs I have here before they are sold.

They utilize an 8pin header and a 4 pin header to power the mainboard. The 8 pin is "not normal" ATX, but oh wait... it IS! Indeed it's so standard you can get adapters! https://www.amazon.com/COMeap-Adapter-Compatible-Optiplex-Precision/dp/B06XGWRTHC

Which is what I did... because if one of these tiny supplies dies, I can use one of my huge bricks by running the wires through the hole left by the old supply to get the unit running while Amazon brings me a proper part tomorrow.

These are STANDARD parts, just not the oversized BS that goes into full ATX or mATX formats. The machines we work on NEVER NEEDED all those extra voltage rails. Just like how an office workstation runs just fine on a 250w PSU.