Vista Lover Here!

[gunslinger]

It's kind of a "Upgrade Or Die!!" Mentality.

Thats what I got from it also.

XP works very well. Its rock solid, stable, and everything made, hardware or software works with it.

 

[nelsonm]

Prior to SP1, i would discourage clients from installing Vista or buying Vista machines although i had Vista installed on my office test computer. Like it or not, its wise to learn about new or updated technology before offering it to customers.

After installing SP1 on the test computer and playing with it again, i felt more confident. I'm now running Vista Business x64 as my main business computer. The only things i found to be a problem where...
1. User Account Control. (I like Linux's method much better.)
2. The excessive use of system shortcuts and layers. (It took me a while to find all of the usual system locations.)

By far the biggest pain in the butt was "User Account Control". It was like continually having to unlock very door in your own home to get from one place to another. After turning "User Account Control" off, i must say that i'm very happy with Vista.

At this point, i have no problem offering Vista to customers and look forward to Windows (Vista) 7.

Ultimately, other than geeks like me, you don't notice or care what version or which system it is as long as its a properly functioning system.

 

[camp.cool007]

OMG! Are you serious? I realize you must learn a new OS, but this OS is terrible! Everyone (even all of my non tech friends) hate Vista. I can learn it without a problem, but I advise people to wait for windows 7 before wasting their money on something that is aweful. Are you serious?

 

[nonchalant]

I LOVE Vista x64 - runs rock solid stable on my system and is as good as XP but with the benefit of all the goodies. Ive been running it for 18 months now and would never go back to XP.

Probably the biggest problem with Vista is noobs running the 32-bit version on mid-range to slow systems. For them I'd recommend XP. IMO Vista is designed to run on fast systems.

 

[MLCS]

3Gigs of RAM = 1Gig...

Are you sure you want to delete this file? Yes..
Are you sure you're sure you want to delete this file? Yes....
You need administrator rights to delete this file do you want to use your administrator rights to delete this file? Yes......
Are you sure you're sure you want to use your administrator rights to delete this file? YES!!!!

Those are the 2 biggest beefs with Vista. Other than that it's an OS. But I don't want to waste my RAM and hours of my time with Vista's crap. MS works in rotations. They have to come out with a real POS OS like ME or Vista so people can waste their money on it, then waste more money on the newer version they release not long after. It's business.

 

[Flyingbull]

When I was upgrading from windows 3.1 to windows 95, all I heard was bitching and moaning about horrible Windows 95 was, it was memory hog, etc.. (I vaguely remember people getting pissy when they upgraded from Dosshell to Win 3.1 but frankly going back 19 years is just sad) When Windows ME came out and quietly disappeared, no-one really bitched except the people who happened to own that OS, it wasn't until switching from 98SE to Windows XP, that I've heard the same thing over and over. It doesn't like my hardware, I have to upgrade my hardware to make it work (Hardware control Lists). I can't move dlls it keeps putting them back (Dll hell prevention), the security is too loose (prior to SP1), the security is too tight or complicated (SP1 & 2).

Then there are the people who bitch because it is trendy (Microsoft is evil, XP is too Cartoonish, They stole the idea from Mac). I remember when sitting for 15 hours straight trying to get windows 95 Version A to load and run, and to find out that "Ooopsy, we sent you the wrong Drivers disk," Just got to love Compact for that, versus the three hours it took to load and dial in Vista when I first got it what, 2 years ago now? Whenever our business edition got delivered, I installed it that week, and I haven't had a reason to go back to XP since.

Now that isn't saying that Vista didn't really piss me off a number of times, like when I had to figure out how to mount the back-ups like virtual drives to restore individual files. Or the fact that the first disks that came with Vista were not bootable. Or when Crystal Reports 8 for my Visual Basic 6.0 wouldn't run (just created a virtual machine for those "legacy" apps, it works amazingly well).

Of course the fact that I'm able to create several websites using the built in IIS console (that run at the same time), get it work so I have a full developers view of my websites without using the virtual bs with Visual Studio, makes me inclined to like it a lot -- that was a throw back to Windows 2k and I liked it alot -- One of things that I hated about XP was I had to control IIS from the command prompt to add websites (other than default), and I could only have one running at a time.

So what can I say, I like Vista, I've never liked XP.
[shrugs] Doesn't mean a damn thing.
The reason that many techs don't like Vista, is the same reason they like Linux. Expectations. Look at this way, The only time I've ever heard people complain, is when the environment changed so much, that the expectations that they had were radically differn't:
Dosshell=>win3.1, Dos6.0/win3.11=>Window 95, Windows 98SE =>XP, XP=>Vista.
This isn't because someone is lazy, or arrogant like I've heard a few time implied, it comes down to that people in general don't like it when things change. Pisses them off, and makes them change their way of thinking or doing. Just the way it is.

Ok, Done writing my book.

 

[dhrandy]

This isn't because someone is lazy, or arrogant like I've heard a few time implied, it comes down to that people in general don't like it when things change. Pisses them off, and makes them change their way of thinking or doing. Just the way it is.

I agree. I run into people all the time that don't like Vista and have never used Vista. And I'm like ???

 

[Flyingbull]

I agree. I run into people all the time that don't like Vista and have never used Vista. And I'm like ???

Those are the ones that fall into the "Trendy" category.

 

[gunslinger]

Those are the ones that fall into the "Trendy" category.

I agree. I hear the same things about how Macs suck. Even though the people saying it either have never laid hands on a Mac or used an old one 15 years ago in school. These days it seems more "Trendy" to think Vista is great and its all user error.

 

[Fireddog]

I am a tech. Been a tech as long as Bryce. Been working with the general public as long as anyone and my opinion on Vista is this. I love it as well. I have been using Vista since the first release candidate was released to the public.
I never had a major issue. I mastered how to reconfigure it to make it more user friendly and I learned to tweak it to boot faster. I haven't had the issues so many "TECHS" say they have.

There are 2 types of techs. Those who work in technology as their JOB.
And those who absolutely enjoy learning something new and find it as a challenge and look forward to trying something different.

I mean I am eventually going to get a mac laptop. Why? Because if I master messing with the deeper inner workings of it I can actually offer support for those mac users.. who SCREW things up.

Or I can be a FANBOI and scream that windoze is best and never try something else. Its the same for Linux. I love messing with tech. It helps myself master new tech and keeps me on my toes.

I always find it amusing that when I visit a company who is running the most Antiquated systems using the same boring setups. the answer is it works.
My answer is .. there is always a better way. But since the tech their is entrenched in their job they have grown lazy and don't want to learn something new.

 

[gunslinger]

I too enjoy learning new things. I enjoy Windows, Linux and OS X. But at the same time "If it aint broke, don't fix it" As fun as it may be to learn new things and play around with new stuff, companies can't waste money to replace perfectly good working computers that get the job done with new and shiny ones that don't have the bugs worked out yet just because the in house "tech" wants to play.

My office computer is a Dell 2400, with a p4 2.66 GHz CPU and 512 mb of RAM running XP SP3. Most likely Antiquated by your standards, but it gets its job done 100% of the time. Internet, billing, word, all the stuff that makes my business run. I could have a new shiny Vista box with 4 gigs of RAM and 2x10,000 RPM drives with an over clocked quad core at 4 GHz, and twin 4870 cards, but why? You know what? that old system will run word and excel as fast or faster than any Vista machine I have used.

 

[purple_minion]

I too enjoy learning new things. I enjoy Windows, Linux and OS X. But at the same time "If it aint broke, don't fix it" As fun as it may be to learn new things and play around with new stuff, companies can't waste money to replace perfectly good working computers that get the job done with new and shiny ones that don't have the bugs worked out yet just because the in house "tech" wants to play.

My office computer is a Dell 2400, with a p4 2.66 GHz CPU and 512 mb of RAM running XP SP3. Most likely Antiquated by your standards, but it gets its job done 100% of the time. Internet, billing, word, all the stuff that makes my business run. I could have a new shiny Vista box with 4 gigs of RAM and 2x10,000 RPM drives with an over clocked quad core at 4 GHz, and twin 4870 cards, but why? You know what? that old system will run word and excel as fast or faster than any Vista machine I have used.

Poster of the month nominee!!!

 

[JohnG]

Doesn't matter what it is...Windows, 'nux, Apple. Hardware, Software. Workstations, PCs, Servers, POS, peripherals...You have it your way, I have mine. You break it, I fix it.

 

[Fireddog]

See the problem with it ain't broke don't fix it.. is that you will never learn that there is a better much better way if you actually research it. And Actually researching it means actually reading.. and learning on your own. Or you can be a sheep as so many love to do and just take what one person says and take it as gospel.

Because I take the time to learn vista I can do things like offer Media center hookups for clients who have a ps3. They have thousands of songs and videos on their pc and they want to hear them on their home stereo surround sound.
Since I personally have done this on my own at my home.. I know how to do it and I can offer that service an charge for it.

Or I can not learn vista not know how to do it.. and lose out on revenue available.

Its why I was top 5 in my company. I was not afraid to learn I was always looking for opportunity. If I didn't offer it I wouldn't know if they would like it done. And they wouldn't know That they really wanted it! First time I told em about their ps3 having that ability and I said I could set it up. My goodness they were falling over themselves asking me to do it.

In my area I got plenty of techs who do know how to set it up. BUT they don't even think to offer it. Great for me and my business but just plain shortsighted on their part.

 

[gunslinger]

I learn new and better ways of doing things all the time. But, just because something is new does not make it better, as millions have discovered with Vista. When I went from Spybot S&D and Ad-aware to Malwarebytes and Superantispyware I did so because they were better. When I went to a dual core CPU I did so because it was more powerful. When I got a Mac I did so because it was tech that I had never used and it turned out to be great.

I used Vista on my personal systems for over a year and found it to be one of the worse things ever made by Microsoft. I did not turn my nose at it because it was new, I welcomed it with open arms. When I found that it was no where near as good a XP I regulated it to the status as Norton internet security, and the Zip drive.

If someone has a a genuine need to upgrade their computer great. If you want to multitask better and your current system only has one gig of RAM, there is a a genuine need to upgrade to 2 gigs. If your current Video card wont play the games you want to play, there is a a genuine need to upgrade to a better card.

I have yet to see a need for anyone to "upgrade" to Vista from XP. Windows 7 on the other hand I think will be worth it, and a worthy upgrade.

I don't believe in upgrading simply for the sake of saying you have the newest most shiny, and companies cannot afford to do this.

 

[Fireddog]

I can do things on Vista I can't do on Xp. I won't go backwards. And if Windows 7 does offer things that can be done on it that Vista can not and its faster and loads quicker and has even better memory requirements I will definitely go to that. But I can't state that XP is actually better.
Xp has less system requirements because it was designed when the systems at the time had less to offer.

But as the 64 bit version of vista has proven it is faster then Exp and less prone to buggines that 64bit xp has and its far more supported.

Xp doesn't really take advantage of 4gig of ram like Vista 64bit can.
IF a program is designed properly for Vista it will run better. But like anything in life it does take some practice and a willingless to learn and RElearn. and Go back and try something again just like Norton security. Norton Security 2008 I agree blows chunks. but 2009 norton security IS a Vastly different animal. but A person automatically colors their view of a product and doesn't actually attempt to try the new one. Well how much validity do they really have? You can't keep telling clients that Norton sucks if all you are talking about is 2008 norton and haven't even fired up norton 2009 and tried yourself.

I am trying out Vypre Security software at this moment. Been running it for weeks. So far its seems stable it scanning speed is decent. It is not as fast as the new nis 2009. but As a nice alternative for some of my poorer clients its a great chance. But I wouldn't have known if I hadn't tried it for myself.

Only thing I will say is the database for it is massive the first update definition you download after a first install is actuall a 60 meg file. Quite large for an av database. but I guess thats a good thing.

I just wish it installed a bit faster. But thats what feedback to a company is for. But at least I tried it instead of just saying.. Oh I only like 2 products and won't try something else.

Try norton IS 2009 for 2 weeks then come back and tell me your experience I challenge anyone to do that and not come back to me and admit their impressed. I have yet to find a tech who after installing it hasn't agreed.

 

[Flyingbull]

I learn new and better ways of doing things all the time. But, just because something is new does not make it better, as millions have discovered with Vista. When I went from Spybot S&D and Ad-aware to Malwarebytes and Superantispyware I did so because they were better. When I went to a dual core CPU I did so because it was more powerful. When I got a Mac I did so because it was tech that I had never used and it turned out to be great.

I used Vista on my personal systems for over a year and found it to be one of the worse things ever made by Microsoft. I did not turn my nose at it because it was new, I welcomed it with open arms. When I found that it was no where near as good a XP I regulated it to the status as Norton internet security, and the Zip drive.

If someone has a a genuine need to upgrade their computer great. If you want to multitask better and your current system only has one gig of RAM, there is a a genuine need to upgrade to 2 gigs. If your current Video card wont play the games you want to play, there is a a genuine need to upgrade to a better card.

I have yet to see a need for anyone to "upgrade" to Vista from XP. Windows 7 on the other hand I think will be worth it, and a worthy upgrade.

I don't believe in upgrading simply for the sake of saying you have the newest most shiny, and companies cannot afford to do this.

While I like Vista [as I've talked about before], it isn't for everyone. While there are coffee house trends on both sides of the digitial divide, that is usally a matter of what you know versus the unkown or peer pressure. What Gunslinger is describing above is simply the realities of being a consultant. You work with what you got, not what you want. You do what is in the best interest of the client. That doesn't mean, if you see a situation that is brewing that needs to be rectified in the future that you keep the "Ain't broke don't fix it mentality." Preventive Maintenance is acceptable, and I would hope preferred to letting it break before fixing it.

 

[stevenamills]

Try norton IS 2009 for 2 weeks then come back and tell me your experience I challenge anyone to do that and not come back to me and admit their impressed. I have yet to find a tech who after installing it hasn't agreed.

Finally, after people loudly complaining they started losing market share and did what they could have done years ago. A look at the enterprise version shows they knew how!

I won't subject my clients systems to products from a company that I know will whizz on them at the first opportunity. I find their business "model" reprehensible.

(I'm a big fan of Leo Laporte and I recall him saying when a family member called and said their computer was running like crap, the first thing he asked was "are you running Norton". You want to trust this company?)

 

[purple_minion]

I can do things on Vista I can't do on Xp. I won't go backwards. And if Windows 7 does offer things that can be done on it that Vista can not and its faster and loads quicker and has even better memory requirements I will definitely go to that. But I can't state that XP is actually better.
Xp has less system requirements because it was designed when the systems at the time had less to offer.

But as the 64 bit version of vista has proven it is faster then Exp and less prone to buggines that 64bit xp has and its far more supported.

Xp doesn't really take advantage of 4gig of ram like Vista 64bit can.
IF a program is designed properly for Vista it will run better. But like anything in life it does take some practice and a willingless to learn and RElearn. and Go back and try something again just like Norton security. Norton Security 2008 I agree blows chunks. but 2009 norton security IS a Vastly different animal. but A person automatically colors their view of a product and doesn't actually attempt to try the new one. Well how much validity do they really have? You can't keep telling clients that Norton sucks if all you are talking about is 2008 norton and haven't even fired up norton 2009 and tried yourself.

I am trying out Vypre Security software at this moment. Been running it for weeks. So far its seems stable it scanning speed is decent. It is not as fast as the new nis 2009. but As a nice alternative for some of my poorer clients its a great chance. But I wouldn't have known if I hadn't tried it for myself.

Only thing I will say is the database for it is massive the first update definition you download after a first install is actuall a 60 meg file. Quite large for an av database. but I guess thats a good thing.

I just wish it installed a bit faster. But thats what feedback to a company is for. But at least I tried it instead of just saying.. Oh I only like 2 products and won't try something else.

Try norton IS 2009 for 2 weeks then come back and tell me your experience I challenge anyone to do that and not come back to me and admit their impressed. I have yet to find a tech who after installing it hasn't agreed.

What does vista do that is so special? And let's talk mundane things that the average joe needs to upgrade for a ton of money? I think people only care about the pretty interface, hence the lawsuit over Home Basic not having the aero interface... seriously this is the important stuff.

As for the XP thing and 4GB look here
http://members.cox.net/slatteryt/RAM.html
It's not XP's fault since it's 32bit, it needs to address things like video ram, etc. Plus you can't compare xp 32bit and vista 64bit.

Also about norton, I used to be a fan of them way back in the day. But seriously, you as a professional, if you treated your clients like crap, worked slow and overbilled them do you think they would ever come back to you? How many products won't you touch or buy because of a bad reputation? Care to buy an emachine? How about a magnovox? The only thing that works for companies is reputation, it's what gets you repeat business. You screw the customer and they don't come back. Customer is always right, guess what that phrase is really for, not because you believe they are right, it's because you want them to come back! I hear it preached over and over and over on here, word of mouth is the best advertising, etc. Reputation! Same reason rehabilitated pedophiles have such a hard time in society, their track record, their reputation.

 

[purple_minion]

See the problem with it ain't broke don't fix it.. is that you will never learn that there is a better much better way if you actually research it. And Actually researching it means actually reading.. and learning on your own. Or you can be a sheep as so many love to do and just take what one person says and take it as gospel.

Because I take the time to learn vista I can do things like offer Media center hookups for clients who have a ps3. They have thousands of songs and videos on their pc and they want to hear them on their home stereo surround sound.
Since I personally have done this on my own at my home.. I know how to do it and I can offer that service an charge for it.

Or I can not learn vista not know how to do it.. and lose out on revenue available.

Its why I was top 5 in my company. I was not afraid to learn I was always looking for opportunity. If I didn't offer it I wouldn't know if they would like it done. And they wouldn't know That they really wanted it! First time I told em about their ps3 having that ability and I said I could set it up. My goodness they were falling over themselves asking me to do it.

In my area I got plenty of techs who do know how to set it up. BUT they don't even think to offer it. Great for me and my business but just plain shortsighted on their part.

So you don't believe in the "broke" policy? if you go to a company and say hey, lemme play on your server and end up costing them an hour of business or maybe a day because of some tweak that's ok? Do you experiment at home or on another companies time? I'm all for at home, and regularly play with lots of things, I can't count the number of electronic items I've fixed by playing and learning. I recently fixed an lcd tv that had one burnt out MOV in the power supply. I got my uncle a 32in tv for free, only needed a 99 cent fuse. I tinker, but when you're talking about companies and other people's money you need to look at their needs and to not break things.

I ask you how in the world did people get along before vista? I bet they figured something out and it's now working away right? So why screw that up? Sure if I bought a computer from dell or hp or as a business it's time for new equipment I'd go with vista, but there is no need for it otherwise. I'd argue there is no need for it anyway. It's not doing anything major worth years of development. I wish I could find the first hand account of the guy that worked at M$. He went on and on about how they had meetings, and more code changes, and more meetings, months of this on THE START BUTTON! How much did they pay all these managers and co-workers on what the start button looks like. Seriously! Not to mention now microsoft has a stake in the malware business so isn't that conflict of interest? They have the majority of market share, what is their incentive to actually do something new, or even better. It's vender lock-in! You don't like windows? Well where are most people going to go? The only competition M$ has is with itself. They aren't happy people want to stick to XP, because they can't get their money for the new shiney thing. If you look at vista pages they start telling you how you can chat, and play games, and watch movies and all this frivolous stuff.