Reselling OEM MS Windows key's/COA's from Dell/HP/IBM volume lic installs

[tankman1989]

Ok, I've mentioned this a few times before in a round about way and never got much of a response on it. I used to work for Dell doing large corporate/gov installs ranging from 200-2,000 PC's at a time. Every time we would receive all the PC's packaged as they would be to a retail customer, OS & Office ready to go with legit OEM keys (not VL's at this point). We would have to image each machine and then do a custom setup with a unique computer name, network credentials, certs etc. The image that is installed on all machines use the same volume license (VL) key one every machine - thus leaving the sticker COA on the machine not used yet a legit key (and paid for by the company I suspect). At one job site I took about 15 XP Pro keys from the PC's I installed and later installed them as a virtual machines which I would turn on/boot a couple times a month to see if it was still working. I could do updates and the WGA checked out fine.

So, I'm wondering if anyone here has noticed this? I never tried the Office but I suspect it would work the same as the COA's that came with the computer were the same as the OS COA.

Here is my angle on this. It seems that these are wasted OS licenses that out school's are paying for yet get no use of. I would think that they might be willing to work some kind of deal to a vendor to legitimately resell these, but I am concerned about the OEM requirements (OS is "tied" to the hardware). So can anyone think of a work around for this? Could the school/corp sell a cable with each license for like $2 each (this actually meets OEM hardware purchase requirements), but IDK if it has to be a cable from the original machine for it to be "by the book".

I would think this could produce some nice additional income by pricing 1/2 between the China MSDN/TechNet scammers and retailers like Newegg. I would think an OEM of Win 7 bus could easily fetch $100 if it was from a legit company that would truly follow some good business practices/ethics like not selling the same key more than once.

So, what do ya'll think about this?

 

[joydivision]

It is dodgy and pure and simple. If they are OEM keys they are no way round it either.

As a for a virtual machine I've done the same from an old PC which was given to me, amazingly it activated first time, but it doesn't make it 'legal'.

 

[OldSchoolPC]

Not following OEM licensing laws is kinda like declaring tax exempt on your w-4 form, only to pay your taxes at the end of the year. Sure, you ultimately pay all your taxes and therefor the government will not waste time coming after you, but your supposed to pay every week. That being said, whenever you do things in the gray area, you run the risk of getting burned. Morally of course, it's fine in my opinion.

 

[PCS]

I used to do this in a past life with XP. I would remove the COA, attach it to the install CD that came with the PC and sell them on ebay.

Made good money, MS then changed the COA to make them harder to remove and also the CDs so they would only install on HP hardware. Ebay also stepped in and made it harder to sell this kind of media.

 

[MikeLierman]

Ethically, it's fine in my book. When I get a client that wants to put a fresh copy of say Windows 7 on their PC, it's not an upgrade so their sticker for Vista or XP goes to waste. I heat up the stickers and remove them and put them on a piece of paper, and I use the keys for whatever, or sell them bundled with something, I only do this when they are actually legally not in use anymore. Also, I don't go removing the stickers without, first, the client's approval. Never had any problem, as at that point they don't care, cause they have no use for it, and I'll give them like a credit or 10% discount on their next invoice. The keys are not specific to any hardware, all you need is an OEM install cd. For Windows 7, you don't even need an OEM cd/dvd. To play by the book, I believe all you have to do is bundle it with OEM hardware, because the labels are not to be sold separately (by itself).

 

[ITMAN]

I do the same but I'm sure many will say that the oem code is tied to the hardware

 

[Xander]

As above, I'll be the one to point out that OEM is sold with the hardware. And, to split a hair, I don't know that you could REsell it as you never bought the OEM license in the first place.

If you just moved a single piece of the original hardware (e.g. old fax/modem) into the new system and brought the OEM license with it....?

 

[seedubya]

Like everyone else here, morally I've no issue with re-using the keys. I would have a moral issue with selling them as you never paid for them in the first place. In either case, from a licencing point of view, you're completely wrong and might be civilly or criminally liable.

 

[Cornerstone Technologies]

Ethically, it's fine in my book. When I get a client that wants to put a fresh copy of say Windows 7 on their PC, it's not an upgrade so their sticker for Vista or XP goes to waste. I heat up the stickers and remove them and put them on a piece of paper, and I use the keys for whatever, or sell them bundled with something, I only do this when they are actually legally not in use anymore.

I know for a fact this very activity is frowned upon by Microsoft and I know first hand that they will sue companies that do this. Your definition of ethics isn't just cause for breaking the licensing rules as spelled out by Microsoft. OEMs are NOT tranferrable beyond the original system they are attached to. The OEM guidelines spell this exact situation out.

Also, I don't go removing the stickers without, first, the client's approval. Never had any problem, as at that point they don't care, cause they have no use for it, and I'll give them like a credit or 10% discount on their next invoice. The keys are not specific to any hardware, all you need is an OEM install cd. For Windows 7, you don't even need an OEM cd/dvd. To play by the book, I believe all you have to do is bundle it with OEM hardware, because the labels are not to be sold separately (by itself).

In the strictest sense, licensing doesn't equal ownership. This is one of those things Microsoft alludes to in their EULAs without actually saying it directly, but have used as justification in lawsuits. If your clients give you permission, that means nothing in the realm of intellectual property rights and intellectual property law. Again, I will stress that the 'book' of rules you refer to has been changed so that OEM licenses cannot be transferred.

It sort of pisses me off that some members justify their actions of whats right and wrong by using their definition of 'ethics'. Just because you see no problem with doing a specific act, does not make it ethically okay. Thread after thread indicates such actions are wrong as defined by the software vender, yet some people disregard that with their own subjective reasoning.

 

[Daifne]

Thank you, Cornerstone Technologies. It is NOT OK.

 

[ITMAN]

For the record I never resell them but if a customer needs a reinstall and hdd is dea and coa rubbed off I give them one of the pulled ones

 

[Kitten Kong]

Transfer of License(s)

Q. Can my customers transfer or sell their OEM software licenses?

A. After an OEM software license has been installed on a PC, the license may not be installed on or transferred to another PC. However, the entire PC may be transferred to another end user along with the software license rights. When transferring the PC to the new end user, the software media, manuals (if applicable), and Certificate of Authenticity label must be included. It is also advisable to include the original purchase invoice or receipt. The original end user cannot keep any copies of the software.

Q. My customer bought a new PC and wants to move the OEM software from the old PC to the new one. Can't users do whatever they want with their software?

A. The OEM software is licensed with the computer system on which it was originally installed and is tied to that original machine. OEM licenses are single-use licenses that cannot be installed on more than one computer system, even if the original machine is no longer in use. The End User Software License Terms, which the end user must accept before using the software, states that the license may not be shared, transferred to, or used concurrently on different computers. System builders must provide end-user support for the Windows license on computers they build, but cannot support licenses on computers they didn’t build. This is a fundamental reason why OEM System Builder licenses can't be transferred.

Here is the link on the MS website, which states the above.

http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/licensing_faq.aspx

 

[codegreen]

I hate software licensing. From my perspective, there should be no problem transfering software from one computer to another. But Microsoft owns the software, and they set the rules as to how it is licensed. Unless these licensing provisions are struck down in courts of law, a person is bound by them if they intend to use the software lawfully.

The fact that I don't agree with Microsoft's software licensing doesn't mean that it's legally and ethically OK for me to ignore it. So, I take another option: I choose to use as much open source software as possible in my business. After dealing with MS licensing with many of my business clients, it's a huge relief for me to install Ubuntu and Debian on my own computers, for any reason, without restriction.

 

[MikeLierman]

You can't pick and choose what you are going to follow from the Licensing rules. I mean do you follow this one?

If the returned PC can be resold to another end user without any changes to the hardware components, you may resell it to another end user. You will need to remove the activated software and install it again, as the "new" end user must see and accept the End User Software License Terms as well as experience Windows Welcome. The end user should not have any problems using the same product key to activate the software again, because the computer system configuration hasn't changed.

Do you really follow the bolded part? If you build a PC or reinstall it for a customer, do you really show them the End User Software License Terms and make them accept it? I'm betting you don't, however, it says you MUST.

What about when you reinstall Windows for a customer do you use THEIR recovery CD/DVD and nothing else as per the quote below?

A customer who wants you to reinstall Windows must provide recovery media from the direct OEM, because the software is licensed to the customer for use on that PC by that OEM. You cannot use your own OEM System Builder media to reinstall the operating system, or any other version of media (e.g., TechNet, MSDN, Action Pack, etc.), because these versions differ from the original OEM Windows license your customer acquired from the direct OEM. A customer who doesn't have a backup copy of the software for reinstallation will need to contact the original OEM and request replacement recovery media; you can use that media to reinstall the operating system on that machine.

Honestly, these are pretty strict guidelines. Guidelines are meant for a reason, for without them, there would be a lot of misinformation and malpractice. I bet you break OEM rules every day by reinstalling Windows for customers, etc.

The transfer rules and non-resell rules are in-place for this reason:

System builders must provide end-user support for the Windows license on computers they build, but cannot support licenses on computers they didn’t build. This is a fundamental reason why OEM System Builder licenses can't be transferred.

 

[celbii]

You can't pick and choose what you are going to follow from the Licensing rules. I mean do you follow this one?



Do you really follow the bolded part? If you build a PC or reinstall it for a customer, do you really show them the End User Software License Terms and make them accept it? I'm betting you don't, however, it says you MUST.

Thats a good point and I sure don't do that

 

[livpie]

I think that if people spent as much energy working to grow their business with integrity and honesty as they do thinking about questionable business practices, the end results would far exceed the results experienced from trying to find ways around just doing what you know is right. I think if you have to post a question as to an ethical business practice, it is most likely unethical on some level. Take the time you spend thinking about these types of things and spend it on thinking of ways to grow your business with integrity and you'll be way better off in the long run.