Pirated Software at potential new client

[buster3845]

So I have a potential new client (and also a friend) who's office is loaded to the gills with bootleg software. Everything from Windows 2008 R2 on his server to about 15 copies of XP Pro on desktops along with several copies of Windows 7 Ultimate on a desktop here and there. He is well aware of this, and "doesn't care". Getting the whole place up to speed would be an expensive proposition (obviously).
What do I do here? Do I get involved? If so, do I make it a non-negotiable requirement that he go legit? Or do I just send him an email with my findings and recommendations in order to cover my a$$?

Honestly, if it was just another client, I'd probably pass. But he's a bit of a friend, and he does need some help. His network is in shambles.

Just the other day I helped him with a nasty Crypto-Locker infection on 2 of his desktops. I also installed AV on all of his desktops since he decided long ago that "AV was useless and would just slow his machines down".

He's as cheap as they come, and will probably be a nightmare as a client. But, I'm trying to be a good friend and not just send him packing.

Oh, and we also started doing his backups (local and cloud) a few months ago because he wasn't happy with the previous guy's prices. I wound up charging him more because it was reasonable, and he has been happily paying for a few months now. So essentially I'm already sort of involved with him.

I'm not really sure what to do here. We're talking about a total of roughly 20 desktops and 2 servers. So it's not a small "mom & pop" operation.

Any thoughts, advice, and opinions are welcome. Thanks all.

 

[Paul Rodgers]

Alarm bells should be ringing. I would make getting proper licenses a requirement.

 

[red12049]

So I have a potential new client (and also a friend) who's office is loaded to the gills with bootleg software. Everything from Windows 2008 R2 on his server to about 15 copies of XP Pro on desktops along with several copies of Windows 7 Ultimate on a desktop here and there. He is well aware of this, and "doesn't care". Getting the whole place up to speed would be an expensive proposition (obviously).
What do I do here? Do I get involved? If so, do I make it a non-negotiable requirement that he go legit? Or do I just send him an email with my findings and recommendations in order to cover my a$$?

Honestly, if it was just another client, I'd probably pass. But he's a bit of a friend, and he does need some help. His network is in shambles.

Just the other day I helped him with a nasty Crypto-Locker infection on 2 of his desktops. I also installed AV on all of his desktops since he decided long ago that "AV was useless and would just slow his machines down".

He's as cheap as they come, and will probably be a nightmare as a client. But, I'm trying to be a good friend and not just send him packing.

Oh, and we also started doing his backups (local and cloud) a few months ago because he wasn't happy with the previous guy's prices. I wound up charging him more because it was reasonable, and he has been happily paying for a few months now. So essentially I'm already sort of involved with him.

I'm not really sure what to do here. We're talking about a total of roughly 20 desktops and 2 servers. So it's not a small "mom & pop" operation.

Any thoughts, advice, and opinions are welcome. Thanks all.

Have the feeling that, if you get further involved, he won't be a friend too much longer.

Rick

 

[SAG]

Replace every reference of computers/networks in your OP with something more physical like automobiles or jewelry.
Then look at your question again.

"My friend has a bunch of stolen stuff and he knows it. He would like for my business to look after his stolen stuff. He knows it's stolen, I know it's stolen, and now all of you know it's stolen. Please give me your blessing because my friend is cheap (that's why this stuff is stolen). What's that? Of course I expect him to pay me, he's not a crook!!!"

 

[NYJimbo]

He's as cheap as they come, and will probably be a nightmare as a client.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER !!!

 

[SAG]

Sorry, I can be a bit too blunt sometimes.
Here's a cute kitten to make up for it.

 

[frederick]

My #1 personal rule: CYA!!!

Two options:
1) Hand him the quote to do it right, and tell him "I'll only do business with you if you start doing it right"

2) (option I'd choose) He don't care, so walk away

People, business owners, who don't care, usually won't care until something catastrophic happens to them. I've had this before with a client I told you all about. They didn't care, wanted it on the cheap. Everything got stolen, they are in a lot of trouble, now all of a sudden they care.

Separate business from friendship. When he gets caught with stolen software, sued out the butt, and you've been working on and maintaining his equipment, will he be there to say you had nothing to do with it, or will he throw you under bus and then tell the bus driver to slam it in reverse and hit you again?

I'm trying to get this potential client. Working my butt off for it. She cares, spent over $20,000 for 5 computers, 5 VoIP phones, a server, and some cheap SOHO devices. Got ripped bad. Brings in her friends company to smooth it all out after the original people did a horrible job. Her friends IT company is charging her $750/month retainer, so she gets nothing in return other than paying $125/hr rather than $140/hr, and all her systems are running slow and crashing often. That's friendship for ya. Rather than 5 star service, she gets treated like crap. I'm trying to show her that, but she says "he's mine friend and he would never cheat me".

 

[lsi]

I have a lot of customers who started out not caring or not realizing that they have to purchase a copy for EACH PC. Or sometimes someone else just went around installing software on their computers and they are out of compliance unknowingly. I don't jettison these customers but what I usually do is explain the repercussions of getting caught. The small business alliance (Microsoft, Adobe, Symantec, etc) is not someone you want to go to court against. So far, every single suit has been settled out of court. It's like you know they are just waiting to make an example of someone. I hear ads on the radio - "turn in your employer anonymously for software piracy". Once they get the picture and realize they will not get away with it for much longer, they are usually willing to fix the situation. I won't install anything counterfeit so the agreement we have is as they purchase new computers, they need to also buy licenses. If they have a computer that needs to be reinstalled or pirated software that needs to be reinstalled, I tell them I can't touch it - they can try to load it themselves and I had nothing to do with it.

The fact that this guy KNOWS about it and doesn't want to do anything about it is disconcerting but maybe if you offer a reasonable path forward he will agree and you can do a great service to your friend before he gets his a$$ sued off by Microsoft.

 

[Pants]

sorry, i can be a bit too blunt sometimes.
Here's a cute kitten to make up for it.

lol.................................

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Personally I hate dealing with super cheap people as sooner or later they will beat you out of your time or make you feel you should not charge for your knowledge and service.

But if you want to deal with this guy then here are a few remedies reasonable both to him and to you.

1. Continue to work on his network however anytime that one of the systems or servers requires reloading you mush charge him at that time for a legal OS and client software for that workstation that you become responsible for or you will not reload them. Otherwise, You can fix them clean them, back them up and what have you but you will not knowing reload illegal software.

You are not responsible if your client stays rogue even if you come in an work on those machines. there is no law that says you have to perform a Microsoft audit every time you touch a machine. Many clients keep licenses/COA's locked in vault to employees do not steal them so you have plausible Deni-ability.


2. As the systems get so old or broke that they must be reloaded rather than repaired you offer to replace them with legal new computers at the going rate saving him labor of a reload plus cost of OEM software ($449--699 per pop or 2 hrs labor plus the cost of a legal OS and any other software they require charged to him}. So he might get legal one computer at a time. Over 6 months to a year you might have him in much more reasonable shape and he might not feel it so bad as you made it part of a company wide workstation and server upgrade program.

3. You can go look at the Microsoft direct licenses to license 20 Os and 2 servers which might well be not as bad as you think and then upgrade him to Win7 both for security reasons as well as legal reasons.

4. You can move him to Ubuntu and open org suite which is legal. I think there is even a version of Quickbooks that works with Ubuntu now.

5. You just provide labor to repair, clean and backup but you never do a reload or even a disaster recovery of illegal software and get paid until such time as you have to walk away.

I've had clients in the past exclaim they hated MS or this one or that one and were never going to pay in to their scheme and you yest them to death but when they ask for a reload or new pc you price it the only way you do it which is 100% legal. You do not pound your chest or claim you are a white hat, just do it. I have never had a client quit me for this reason.

More than likely your clients issue is with reliability and when you show him what a well run and funded network can do for his business licenses will not even be an issue.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Exactly, just do not make too big of deal about it. Righteous indignation isn't really appropriate. Just say I cannot risk my livelihood to support my family so it has to be this way.

I have a lot of customers who started out not caring or not realizing that they have to purchase a copy for EACH PC. Or sometimes someone else just went around installing software on their computers and they are out of compliance unknowingly. I don't jettison these customers but what I usually do is explain the repercussions of getting caught. The small business alliance (Microsoft, Adobe, Symantec, etc) is not someone you want to go to court against. So far, every single suit has been settled out of court. It's like you know they are just waiting to make an example of someone. I hear ads on the radio - "turn in your employer anonymously for software piracy". Once they get the picture and realize they will not get away with it for much longer, they are usually willing to fix the situation. I won't install anything counterfeit so the agreement we have is as they purchase new computers, they need to also buy licenses. If they have a computer that needs to be reinstalled or pirated software that needs to be reinstalled, I tell them I can't touch it - they can try to load it themselves and I had nothing to do with it.

The fact that this guy KNOWS about it and doesn't want to do anything about it is disconcerting but maybe if you offer a reasonable path forward he will agree and you can do a great service to your friend before he gets his a$$ sued off by Microsoft.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

Why force a show down. If you tell someone myway or the highway you are going to be walking down the highway empty pockets.

Ease him into it and so long as you do not do anything illegal so what if it takes him a bit of time to come to terms iwth it. Often these attitudes are inherited from the last IT guy so the customer quickly adapts a more reasonable posture.

My #1 personal rule: CYA!!!

Two options:
1) Hand him the quote to do it right, and tell him "I'll only do business with you if you start doing it right"

2) (option I'd choose) He don't care, so walk away

People, business owners, who don't care, usually won't care until something catastrophic happens to them. I've had this before with a client I told you all about. They didn't care, wanted it on the cheap. Everything got stolen, they are in a lot of trouble, now all of a sudden they care.

Separate business from friendship. When he gets caught with stolen software, sued out the butt, and you've been working on and maintaining his equipment, will he be there to say you had nothing to do with it, or will he throw you under bus and then tell the bus driver to slam it in reverse and hit you again?

I'm trying to get this potential client. Working my butt off for it. She cares, spent over $20,000 for 5 computers, 5 VoIP phones, a server, and some cheap SOHO devices. Got ripped bad. Brings in her friends company to smooth it all out after the original people did a horrible job. Her friends IT company is charging her $750/month retainer, so she gets nothing in return other than paying $125/hr rather than $140/hr, and all her systems are running slow and crashing often. That's friendship for ya. Rather than 5 star service, she gets treated like crap. I'm trying to show her that, but she says "he's mine friend and he would never cheat me".

 

[frederick]

If I don't know it's a legit copy or not, I wont ask. I always give benefit of the doubt that it is a legal copy of whatever software. If I discover that it is an illegitimate copy, my morale's, and how I was taught was to not support or condone those types of actions. Maybe if I didn't serve in the military, my morale's and values would be different. But a thief is a thief, and I don't have time for them. I'm not going to help a thief, even if I wont get in trouble, my name is still on their systems just for maintaining their theft.

Cheap customers lead to cheap profits, and cheap profits don't make me money. I hear what you are saying Tony, but cheap customers, out of my experience, have led me to go nuts-crazy.

If the client is willing to make the switch to Ubuntu, and open office, then go with that. Most of my clients get frustrated with new operating systems and even browsers, so typically I keep linux on the server side of things and out of their sight.

 

[gikstar]

I don't think I've seen a mention about which Office program he is running, I suspect that it's Microsoft Office rather than Libra Office.

I would approach him with the fact that it might be cheaper for him to have you find off-lease business computers to replace his current desktop equipment which you can find with Windows 7 Pro COAs. The XP systems should be replaced next year anyway.
If you can only find Vista Business Editions or Windows XP Pro systems, you can purchase the equipment yourself and as a Microsoft Certified Refurbisher, upgrade the system to Win 7 Pro for about $50 each (for each license) and then sell the computers to him.

Sell him on a plan to upgrade all of his computers through you. Don't know what you would do about the servers... if I was looking to upgrade my current server I would look for a used unit that comes with the version of server that I need and the COA attached of course.

 

[rsarceno]

If your Microsoft certified or have taken any Microsoft test, then your obligated to report it since you mention it on this forum.

It's been 4 - 6 yrs since I'm taken a test but i doubt they change the policy.

 

[bertie40]

Some excellent points made.

Personally, I'd invite him for a drink and discuss the situation.
He really is on the road to disaster.

Just give him some horror stories about poorly maintained machines and virus infections.

Also ensure that any tech who says different ain't worth the whiff of deodorant he ain't wearing.

Yep, either go down the Linux root or start a program of installing legit software, one or two at a time.

Break the job down. Nibble away at it which would be easier for his mentality to handle.

Identify the most critical machines, and attack those first.

Also it's a learning experience for you, as I'm sure you'll run across a similar problem in the future.

Good luck.

 

[PC Ops]

... do I make it a non-negotiable requirement that he go legit?

^^^this. Also tell him the possible consequences if he gets caught and inform him about other (legitimate) possibilities and prices. And since as "cheap as they come": Linux maybe?

sorry, i can be a bit too blunt sometimes.
Here's a cute kitten to make up for it.

 

[MobileTechie]

If your Microsoft certified or have taken any Microsoft test, then your obligated to report it since you mention it on this forum.

It's been 4 - 6 yrs since I'm taken a test but i doubt they change the policy.

Is that right? I'm struggling to see how this is enforceable at all for test takers. It's not like you signed the official secrets act or something. I didn't sign anything when I took the tests but I did click a box. I can't believe me me clicking some terms several years ago at the start of an exam makes be legally obliged to become a Microsoft narc forever!

 

[MobileTechie]

Maybe you could threaten to report him and he'll go to prison if he doesn't sign up for your Ultra Premium Level maintenance agreement?! LOL

 

[PC-MOT]

Same as everyone else here, these things have a habit of coming back to bite you later on, your running a business and you need to that think what you do, and how you behave, may affect your ability to feed yourself and your family, or pay your mortgage.
Everyone gets situations like this from time to time, just tell him that he will have to bring his system into line with what you require, and if you choose to give him a discount, clearly that is up to you, give him your estimate (listing his discount) and the software he will need to buy to become legit, then see how much of a friend he is when it comes to you being able to pay your bills, maybe he wont haggle.