My Diagnostics Procedure: Test Up To 20+ Computers A Day

What about a failing hardware, say it still works before your test and died while testing. The client asked a replacement/fix from your pocket.
No response on this question?

I'm curious also. I once tested a laptop hard drive to the point that it failed and another time with a HD from a desktop system...

This is why we pull the drive from the system and run ShadowProtect while the drive is on the bench system to get a backup of the drive first. If the backup fails, you know you've got a dying drive on it's last leg and you had better pull off their docs etc.
We proceed with other test only after a good copy of their system has been successfully stored away.

Thanks to the OP... this has been an interesting and informative thread.:)
 
Aside from that, as most experience technicians already know, software issues can be caused by hardware failures, and even if that is not the case like with a virus, half the time the hard drive is failing anyways, so why would you not check for that?

What about screen replacements, at least half the time the hard drives are also failing due to the nature of the accident. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that I am one of the only shops around here that will check for things like failing hard drives for screen replacements.

Hard drives are actually one thing that we do test on just about every machine that we work on. As many have already mentioned in this thread, they are just so prone to failure these days that there is a reasonable chance that any given computer more than a few years old will have a drive that is at least beginning to fail.

Back to my original analogy. If a doctor had good reason to believe that a large percentage of his patience - maybe as many as half - had a specific and very harmful condition, he would most likely want to check every patient for that condition.

So yes, I agree it is a good idea to check for failing drives in most instances.
 
That is all well and good, but what do you do when the customer comes in and pays you $49 to install a Blue Ray burner, or $49 to install Office 2010 and provides you the media? What if the customer says Firefox or Google Chome won't start up due to a problem with the extensions???

^^^ Do you do a hardware diagnostics for all these?

Me I would..

1. Install the drive in 5 minutes and if it had fancy, value-added software install it simply to appease the customer.

Agreed....at least 75% of the time the problem you're looking at the computer is due to software issues/conflicts. The other 23% of the time..the issue will be a failing hard drive. Experience will allow you to determine the hard drive is bad in less than 5 minutes without resorting to some 3rd party utility...hard drives relatively cheap, cloning methods fast...clone it to a new drive, done. Your time is money...and your time is expense to the client. Spending time waiting for some 3rd party util to tell you a drive is failing..when you know it from your gut..and when the drive is over 3 years old and should be replaced anyways....

memtest.....stopped using those many years ago. I recall back then those programs being a waste of time...I've seen them incorrect state memory was good when I've known the memory was incompatible and swapped it and the issue went away. Most of the time the issue is improper memory was purchased and installed in the first place. Unless someone is dealing with bargain brand memory, or the machine was hit by lightening....I don't see memory "go bad".

Bad capacitors, incorrect memory, take up pretty much the remaining % of problems.
 
Agreed....at least 75% of the time the problem you're looking at the computer is due to software issues/conflicts. The other 23% of the time..the issue will be a failing hard drive. Experience will allow you to determine the hard drive is bad in less than 5 minutes without resorting to some 3rd party utility...hard drives relatively cheap, cloning methods fast...clone it to a new drive, done. Your time is money...and your time is expense to the client. Spending time waiting for some 3rd party util to tell you a drive is failing..when you know it from your gut..and when the drive is over 3 years old and should be replaced anyways....

memtest.....stopped using those many years ago. I recall back then those programs being a waste of time...I've seen them incorrect state memory was good when I've known the memory was incompatible and swapped it and the issue went away. Most of the time the issue is improper memory was purchased and installed in the first place. Unless someone is dealing with bargain brand memory, or the machine was hit by lightening....I don't see memory "go bad".

Bad capacitors, incorrect memory, take up pretty much the remaining % of problems.

i've come across bad ram twice. both cases the easiest diagnostic was to remove the module and try to boot the system. one of those cases memtest reported the module as good.
 
What about a failing hardware, say it still works before your test and died while testing. The client asked a replacement/fix from your pocket.

No response on this question?

I'm curious also. I once tested a laptop hard drive to the point that it failed and another time with a HD from a desktop system...

This is why we pull the drive from the system and run ShadowProtect while the drive is on the bench system to get a backup of the drive first. If the backup fails, you know you've got a dying drive on it's last leg and you had better pull off their docs etc.
We proceed with other test only after a good copy of their system has been successfully stored away.

Thanks to the OP... this has been an interesting and informative thread.:)

Sorry guys, I totally missed this question. I have never had this issue and that is probably due to my process. One part of my process that I did not mention is the conversation I have with the customer before they check in their computer. I always, always, always educate my customers about their computer and what the possible issues are before they check it in. If I think that there is even a chance that their hard drive might be failing I will tell them, that way when I call them back there is no surprise. Also, if I think that may be the case, I immediately back up their information. As for the testing, I always run a short test first, which if the hard drive is severely failing like you described above, it will more than likely pop in the short test and then you immediately skip the extended test and backup their information.



As for those who are saying that they rarely see failing hard drives, I am not sure what you are working with, be it servers or home machines, but considering that just about everyone that actually runs full diagnostics see at least half of those hard drives fail, then it stands to reason that you do not see them fail is because you do not test them.
 
I think you have to separate the jobs that just require a replacement or upgrade form jobs that require diagnosis to be done lets' say on a system that does not boot. If a customer wants me to install a new DVD drive then I am not going to run any diagnostics on the computer other than to make sure the drive works as it should. Thats included in my fee for installing the drive. Now, If a customer brings in a computer that won't load Windows or is not powering on then these type of jobs will require some diagnostic work to be done so they attract a diagnostic fee.

The diagnostic tools you use may be different for each job that you do but some common tools that I use are as follows:

Always try to image the drive first, then run linux Mint from a live DVD this will help rule out memory and other hardware issues and then I will run Spinrite. This is more or less a typical diagnostic routine on all computers that will not boot into the operating system, systems that hang or bluescreen.

The one thing I always do is to make sure that the customer acknowledges the fact that the computer is either not booting or not powering on before they leave the computer, I don't want them saying that the computer was booting when I left it with you and now it doesn't so I you must have done something to it.
 
I think you have to separate the jobs that just require a replacement or upgrade form jobs that require diagnosis to be done lets' say on a system that does not boot. If a customer wants me to install a new DVD drive then I am not going to run any diagnostics on the computer other than to make sure the drive works as it should. Thats included in my fee for installing the drive. Now, If a customer brings in a computer that won't load Windows or is not powering on then these type of jobs will require some diagnostic work to be done so they attract a diagnostic fee.

The diagnostic tools you use may be different for each job that you do but some common tools that I use are as follows:

Always try to image the drive first, then run linux Mint from a live DVD this will help rule out memory and other hardware issues and then I will run Spinrite. This is more or less a typical diagnostic routine on all computers that will not boot into the operating system, systems that hang or bluescreen.

The one thing I always do is to make sure that the customer acknowledges the fact that the computer is either not booting or not powering on before they leave the computer, I don't want them saying that the computer was booting when I left it with you and now it doesn't so I you must have done something to it.

Thank you for this post, it reminded me of something I meant to put in the OP

Final Note: These are not diagnostics, if you say that you use these things in place of a diagnostics, I WILL call you out on it.


Live Linux CD: While a Linux Live CD is a great way to narrow down certain issues, Linux is not a diagnostics tool in it self, nor does it crash or react to hardware failure in the same manner as Windows. Typically, Linux can hold up to hardware failures better than Windows. This means, that things like memory, CPU and MOBO issues may not show up the same or at all on in a live Linux environment. Also, while booted into a live Linux environment, you are not using the hard drive, thus you will not see any issues unless you actually test it or unless it is severely failing and the live Linux CD has a HDD monitoring system like Ubuntu.




In any case, you can do what you will with your services, but the reason why I do a full diagnostics before every service is to

1. cover my butt
2. look out for the customer
3. add a higher level of quality to my service that my competition and most shops and techs in general are not adding to their services. It is one of the reasons why I can charge more than anyone else in my area.
 
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Thank you for this post, it reminded me of something I meant to put in the OP

Final Note: These are not diagnostics, if you say that you use these things in place of a diagnostics, I WILL call you out on it.


Live Linux CD: While a Linux Live CD is a great way to narrow down certain issues, Linux is not a diagnostics tool in it self, nor does it crash or react to hardware failure in the same manner as Windows. Typically, Linux can hold up to hardware failures better than Windows. This means, that things like memory, CPU and MOBO issues may not show up the same or at all on in a live Linux environment. Also, while booted into a live Linux environment, you are not using the hard drive, thus you will not see any issues unless you actually test it or unless it is severely failing and the live Linux CD has a HDD monitoring system like Ubuntu.

- Things that are good to test in a Linux environment: network, sound, video, ports, DVD drive, etc.

Spinrite: While this is a very useful tool and a great SMART monitoring utility, just like chyrstaldiskinfo it is not a diagnostics and it cannot and does not run a short or extended test on hard drives.

In short, a live Linux CD is not a diagnostics, and spinrite does not run an extended or full diagnostics on the HDD.

In any case, you can do what you will with your services, but the reason why I do a full diagnostics before every service is to

1. cover my butt
2. look out for the customer
3. add a higher level of quality to my service that my competition and most shops and techs in general are not adding to their services. It is one of the reasons why I can charge more than anyone else in my area.

I think you are a bit hung up on the what is what isn't classed as tool the can be used to diagnose a problem. Okay, you do your full diagnostics good on every computer you get, good for you.

I don't get customers ringing me up to get diagnostics run on their computers, they ring me when their computer is broken and they need me to diagnose the problem or problems.

linux Mint will crash if your ram is faulty. (diagnosis faulty ram)

Spinrite not only diagnoses drive errors it also fixes them. (diagnosis Windows not to loading due to drive errors)

Your last 3 points, I don't think your on your Pat Malone there with points 1 & 2 but point 3 sounds like a customer ripoff to me!
 
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I think you are a bit hung up on the what is what isn't classed as tool the can be used to diagnose a problem. Okay, you do your full diagnostics good on every computer you get, good for you.

I don't get customers ringing me up to get diagnostics run on my computer, they ring me when there computer is broken and they need me to diagnose the problem.

linux Mint will crash if you ram is faulty. (diagnosis faulty ram)

Spinrite not only diagnoses drive errors it also fixes them. (diagnosis drive errors causing Windows not to load)

Your last 3 points, I don't think your on your Pat Malone there with points 1 & 2 but point 3 sounds like a customer ripoff to me!

I am not going to argue with you about spinrite, but I will correct myself. Spinrite does appear to now do a type of diagnostics, though it appears to be limited on some SMART hard drives. It never used to test them, at least not when I used to use it. As for live Linux environments, I cannot count the number of times I have loaded linux on a computer with failing memory that seemed to work perfectly fine, then when tested, it failed completely. That said, if the computer (when running Linux) was having issues, how would you know it was memory, MOBO or CPU or any other piece of hardware that was failing just by using a live Linux CD? You can't, an experience technician can tell you that.

As for reasons 1, 2 and 3. I wont even go there . . . All I will say is that I cannot count the number of times that customers have thanked me for not leaving them out to dry and for telling them that something was failing and not worth repairing, instead of just repairing the obvious issue and having them come back months later with other issues.
 
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I think you have to separate the jobs that just require a replacement or upgrade form jobs that require diagnosis to be done lets' say on a system that does not boot. If a customer wants me to install a new DVD drive then I am not going to run any diagnostics on the computer other than to make sure the drive works as it should. Thats included in my fee for installing the drive. Now, If a customer brings in a computer that won't load Windows or is not powering on then these type of jobs will require some diagnostic work to be done so they attract a diagnostic fee.

Gazza, I am not sure exactly what you mean by this, but it seems that you do not charge for a diagnostics unless you actually run one. I commend you for this, as it is more honest then many shops around me who charge for a full diagnostics and yet do not run any. Just thought I would also point that out.
 
That said, if the computer (when running Linux) was having issues, how would you know it was memory, MOBO or CPU or any other piece of hardware that was failing just by using a live Linux CD? You can't, an experience technician can tell you that.

Linux crashes, so that's when you start checking hardware because you know it is not software related, so is that not a diagnosis?

I mean really mate get over it, every tech has there own way of doing things if you believe that you are doing the right thing by everyone, then keep on doing it.

I wonder how many customers have you flogged your diagnostic up sell to, have found nothing is wrong and six months later they have problems with a failing hard drive. There are no guarantee's! unless of course you have a diagnostic crystal ball!

Anyway what proof do you give the customer of these so called diagnostics being actually performed, unless you give a 12 month guarantee that there computer will not fail, I really don't believe you do anything more than what has been spoken about already on these forums.
 
This is my last response to you as our argument is not adding to the thread as much as it is taking it off course. If you feel the need to get the last word in, feel free to do so.

Linux crashes, so that's when you start checking hardware because you know it is not software related, so is that not a diagnosis?

Lets just turn that around for a second, what if Linux does not crash? Understanding that Linux does not react and crash in the same manner as Windows does, I also understand that in many cases it will not crash at all due to hardware failure. So what do you do then? Do you assume that there are no hardware issues? Do you remember what assuming does?


I mean really mate get over it, every tech has there own way of doing things if you believe that you are doing the right thing by everyone, then keep on doing it.

As mentioned before, this is not something I instantly knew to do. This is what I have learned over the years from working on thousands of computers, as well as learning from other peoples mistakes. There will be techs who will read your post, assume that you are right, then eventually figure out how wrong you were and how wrong they are. I try my best not to learn things the hard way if possible. I encourage others to consider doing the same.


I wonder how many customers have you flogged your diagnostic up sell to, have found nothing is wrong and six months later they have problems with a failing hard drive. There are no guarantee's! unless of course you have a diagnostic crystal ball!

Diagnostics is free with every service, just like any other shop. The difference in my shop is that we actually run one. The reason why we can charge more, is because in the end, we provide a better quality service (for more reasons then listed on this thread) than other shops. In the long run, we save our customers more money and we decrease the chances of them losing important data in the future.

Anyway what proof do you give the customer of these so called diagnostics being actually performed, unless you give a 12 month guarantee that there computer will not fail, I really don't believe you do anything more than what has been spoken about already on these forums.

We can print every diagnostics test that we run . . . can you?


NOTE: For those wondering about printing memtest86+ results, you can't. But if the memory does fail, you can then run the same tests in PC Doctor and then print the results from there.
 
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If a live linux Mint distro loads and runs, video works, sound works and wireless, usb ports and ethernet works and does not crash over a period of 3 to 4 hours I think we can safely say that the computers problems are software related and not hardware related. Diagnosis correct?

As I said every tech has there own way of doing things, which we may or may not agree with, the tools we use we may not agree with, it is getting the right result for the customer that counts and if your way does that then good for you.

As I said I don't run diagnostics for every repair but I do run Passmark Burn-in Pro for 4 to 8 hours after I have fixed the problem, if the system passes then a report is printed and given to the customer, the testing and report is factored into my repair rates, it is not a separate charge. The results cannot be fudged and are listed in a manner that the average non techie person can understand.

Let's just leave it for now and enjoy your day.

Thanks,

Gary
 
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NOTE: For those wondering about printing memtest86+ results, you can't.
I keep a digital camera at the workbench and take photos of all of the error messages as they come up... this helps with things like memtest86+, defraggler - showing the amount of fragmentation before running it, and other messages that are just too long for me to write down.
I can also add those images into their client file on our server along with our dated worksheet.:)

On a different note:
unless you give a 12 month guarantee that there computer will not fail
the word is "their" not "there"...

The only time we use a Linux Live CD is when we suspect that the a problem is software related rather than hardware related. Recently we had a laptop come in that would not produce sound in Windows, nothing we did would correct that problem. Running a Linux Live CD made it perfectly clear that it was not a hardware issue! Too bad it took us a while to decide to test it by booting with a Linux CD.
 
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I keep a digital camera at the workbench and take photos of all of the error messages as they come up... this helps with things like memtest86+, defraggler - showing the amount of fragmentation before running it, and other messages that are just too long for me to write down.
I can also add those images into their client file on our server along with our dated worksheet.:)

On a different note: the word is "their" not "there"...

The only time we use a Linux Live CD is when we suspect that the a problem is software related rather than hardware related. Recently we had a laptop come in that would not produce sound in Windows, nothing we did would correct that problem. Running a Linux Live CD made it perfectly clear that it was not a hardware issue! Too bad it took us a while to decide to test it by booting with a Linux CD.

I had thought about taking pictures myself, but since I already run PC Doctor, I might as well just print the results from there.

As for using the live Linux CD to troubleshoot software issues, that is a perfect example of how it should be used.
 
I take pictures with my cellphone. I originally bought a 6 MP camera, got a new phone and it had an 8 MP camera. Needless to say I only carry my phone. lol Every report I can export and picture that I take gets attached to the support ticket for the call for future reference. Most of the pictures usually go into a folder on Dropbox with a link put into the ticket, though (I routinely delete any client pictures older than 6 months from Dropbox).

Anyway, as a person who exclusively uses Linux as their operating system (not dual boot) for the past 8 years, let me tell you: Linux does crash. It is far more fault tolerant than Windows will ever be because it was made for server environments and the entire point of the system is to keep it running as much as possible. You will have a huge set of log files if things start faulting, though.

If it doesn't POST and shows nothing on the screen, it's the power supply. If it POSTs without video, it's the video card. If you still have no video and it doesn't provide a beep code (otherwise, follow what the beep codes say), barebones it, reset the motherboard settings with the jumpers/switches, etc. to try to get it to work. If it works on your bench but not at the client's look for a short.

If you get video and it freezes on boot, it's the mobo. If you barebones it and it POSTs fine, troubleshoot what you disconnected one-by-one. Swapping RAM, resetting BIOS defaults, checking the heatsink, swapping out the CPU, etc. until you get it to POST or not. Most serious mobo/CPU/RAM issues will be readily apparent and you don't need a CD to diagnostics test to tell you it's probably a hardware issue.

I will say, however, that if I suspect that there's any problem with the hard drive I will do a backup of their data (not an image). Most of my work is on-site so I don't have hours to spend on preventative measures when the client isn't complaining of or having solid hard drive problems. But, what I have noticed myself doing lately more and more is checking the SMART data on a lot of the hard drives regardless of the issue.

As far as what to tell the client before their stuff dies completely or while I have it... I never tell my customers exactly what I think a problem is, I give them a range, usually from one extreme to the other. If they're having problems with their system crashing, I will tell them it could be anything from a simple virus that needs to be removed or a problem with the hard drive, mobo, processor, RAM or a combination thereof. (Yes, this usually gives them the deer-caught-in-the-headlights look. lol)

Then I paraphrase what it says in my terms: You brought me a faulty computer that is not working properly. Because it is not working properly and could have a mechanical problem, just turning it on or the diagnosis process itself could further damage the computer and keep it from functioning properly (such as a grinding hard drive).

I always tell them the worst possible scenario but I also tell them that once diagnosed and it looks like the estimated cost for repairs would exceed the cost of the computer's worth, I will let them know (not just do it like some repair shops lol). I have no problem letting my customer know that I don't know what's going on with their computer because you need to have a solid look at what's going on to be able to diagnose it. If they are adamant about a possible diagnosis right there, that's when I tell them the above with the extreme ranges -- because if you don't, I guarantee you that the day you tell them it's a simple virus, half their hardware is fried -- Murphy's Law hates us with a passion. lol

When I call them back to tell them what's wrong with it, they have already been prepared for the worst case scenario. You're either a) confirming it or b) giving them good news. 99% of the time the diagnosis you come up with is far better than the worst case scenario, however, if it is the worst, then you're not going to get the surprised client who thinks you broke it. And, with that 99%, they think you're a super tech because you "saved" their computer when they thought everything could be dead. I don't tell them this stuff to make me look like a hero or something, but to cover my butt... It's just an added benefit. :D
 
I take pictures with my cellphone. I originally bought a 6 MP camera, got a new phone and it had an 8 MP camera. Needless to say I only carry my phone. lol Every report I can export and picture that I take gets attached to the support ticket for the call for future reference. Most of the pictures usually go into a folder on Dropbox with a link put into the ticket, though (I routinely delete any client pictures older than 6 months from Dropbox).

Anyway, as a person who exclusively uses Linux as their operating system (not dual boot) for the past 8 years, let me tell you: Linux does crash. It is far more fault tolerant than Windows will ever be because it was made for server environments and the entire point of the system is to keep it running as much as possible. You will have a huge set of log files if things start faulting, though.

If it doesn't POST and shows nothing on the screen, it's the power supply. If it POSTs without video, it's the video card. If you still have no video and it doesn't provide a beep code (otherwise, follow what the beep codes say), barebones it, reset the motherboard settings with the jumpers/switches, etc. to try to get it to work. If it works on your bench but not at the client's look for a short.

If you get video and it freezes on boot, it's the mobo. If you barebones it and it POSTs fine, troubleshoot what you disconnected one-by-one. Swapping RAM, resetting BIOS defaults, checking the heatsink, swapping out the CPU, etc. until you get it to POST or not. Most serious mobo/CPU/RAM issues will be readily apparent and you don't need a CD to diagnostics test to tell you it's probably a hardware issue.

I will say, however, that if I suspect that there's any problem with the hard drive I will do a backup of their data (not an image). Most of my work is on-site so I don't have hours to spend on preventative measures when the client isn't complaining of or having solid hard drive problems. But, what I have noticed myself doing lately more and more is checking the SMART data on a lot of the hard drives regardless of the issue.

As far as what to tell the client before their stuff dies completely or while I have it... I never tell my customers exactly what I think a problem is, I give them a range, usually from one extreme to the other. If they're having problems with their system crashing, I will tell them it could be anything from a simple virus that needs to be removed or a problem with the hard drive, mobo, processor, RAM or a combination thereof. (Yes, this usually gives them the deer-caught-in-the-headlights look. lol)

Then I paraphrase what it says in my terms: You brought me a faulty computer that is not working properly. Because it is not working properly and could have a mechanical problem, just turning it on or the diagnosis process itself could further damage the computer and keep it from functioning properly (such as a grinding hard drive).

I always tell them the worst possible scenario but I also tell them that once diagnosed and it looks like the estimated cost for repairs would exceed the cost of the computer's worth, I will let them know (not just do it like some repair shops lol). I have no problem letting my customer know that I don't know what's going on with their computer because you need to have a solid look at what's going on to be able to diagnose it. If they are adamant about a possible diagnosis right there, that's when I tell them the above with the extreme ranges -- because if you don't, I guarantee you that the day you tell them it's a simple virus, half their hardware is fried -- Murphy's Law hates us with a passion. lol

When I call them back to tell them what's wrong with it, they have already been prepared for the worst case scenario. You're either a) confirming it or b) giving them good news. 99% of the time the diagnosis you come up with is far better than the worst case scenario, however, if it is the worst, then you're not going to get the surprised client who thinks you broke it. And, with that 99%, they think you're a super tech because you "saved" their computer when they thought everything could be dead. I don't tell them this stuff to make me look like a hero or something, but to cover my butt... It's just an added benefit. :D

Great advice and troubleshooting tips, not all of it is 100% but it does help to point someone in the right direction in many cases. Anyways, you sound like you handle things much the same way I do in the shop.

I did want to clarify something, Linux does of course crash just like any other OS, but as you said, its more tolerant. In any case, it makes a great troubleshooting tool.
 
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