My Diagnostics Procedure: Test Up To 20+ Computers A Day

[anglian]

I like the idea of running full diagnostics on everything.

If a client comes in and wants a simple job done, like a memory uprade, and you run full diagnostics that come back with a result that the drive may be failing (but also, it may run on for several years) How do you tell the client without making it look like you are just trying to get some extra $'s from them?

 

[PCX]

If a client comes to me with a specific demand, they get exactly what they ask for. If I run into anything while doing it, I'll tell them and give them an estimate. I will do most of the things that others have said if they give me a system they don't know what's wrong and it's something I've seen before and can fix right away.

Well, all I can tell you is that how we run our business is like this: We either do it the right way or not at all. We turn away business all the time for customers that just want us to jerry rig something or cut corners. I will gladly point them to another shop if I cannot convince them that quality is better than quantity.

 

[PCX]

I like the idea of running full diagnostics on everything.

If a client comes in and wants a simple job done, like a memory uprade, and you run full diagnostics that come back with a result that the drive may be failing (but also, it may run on for several years) How do you tell the client without making it look like you are just trying to get some extra $'s from them?

Personally, I have never had this issue, but if I did, I would then use PC Doctor to test the memory and then print the results for them. I also give them back their failing parts and tell them that they can take it to any other shop and have it tested if they have any doubts. I have had no one yet take me up on it.

 

[Jeffreynya]

But you do understand where anglian is coming form right? Its kind of like every time you take your car to a mechanic they almost always tell you that you need something else done. They scare you into thinking it needs to be done or is necessary trying to get more out of you. I would not want to gain a reputation like that either. So there is a fine line to walk here I think.

I think the idea of doing all the tests is great and I guess I would go as far to say that I would backup all the data and run a HD test at the minimum on every machine. The users data is king here. Its needs to be preserved. And of course if the machine is going to sit over night then by all means gets test running. Sometimes There are jobs that require 30 minutes and I can get the PC back to people the same day, in these cases I still backup data and do the job. If they don't need it for a day or 2 I will run scans.

 

[nightkingdoms]

Well, all I can tell you is that how we run our business is like this: We either do it the right way or not at all. We turn away business all the time for customers that just want us to jerry rig something or cut corners. I will gladly point them to another shop if I cannot convince them that quality is better than quantity.

I'm not saying that whar you're doing is wrong. What I'm saying - and maybe it's just a different process for me - is that if there are no complaints as to how the system is running and is perfectly fine for the client, I see no reason to take more of my and their time on-site or with bench space to run full diagnostics on a system that has no issues.

If they come to me about wanting to upgrade the memory or their computer is slow, has blue screens, etc. that's a different story. What the client thinks is wrong and what actually is wrong is usually two veey different things.

However, if there are no complaints and someone wants me to install new hardware or software on a perfectly running system, I'm not wasting my time - and their's - running full diagnostics for hours on end.

 

[nightkingdoms]

I like the idea of running full diagnostics on everything.

If a client comes in and wants a simple job done, like a memory uprade, and you run full diagnostics that come back with a result that the drive may be failing (but also, it may run on for several years) How do you tell the client without making it look like you are just trying to get some extra $'s from them?

If I run diagnostics on a system and it comes up with anything, I call them and tell them what's wrong and an estimate to fix it. If it's something they want done and agree to the price, it's done. If not, I tell them that this is a real problem and if it's not a problem for you now, it will be in the future and could result in data loss or loss of the use of your computer and the recommendation goes on the work order for posterity.

And I apologize for any spelling errors, I'm usually replying to these on my phone. lol

 

[PCX]

But you do understand where anglian is coming form right? Its kind of like every time you take your car to a mechanic they almost always tell you that you need something else done. They scare you into thinking it needs to be done or is necessary trying to get more out of you. I would not want to gain a reputation like that either. So there is a fine line to walk here I think.

I think the idea of doing all the tests is great and I guess I would go as far to say that I would backup all the data and run a HD test at the minimum on every machine. The users data is king here. Its needs to be preserved. And of course if the machine is going to sit over night then by all means gets test running. Sometimes There are jobs that require 30 minutes and I can get the PC back to people the same day, in these cases I still backup data and do the job. If they don't need it for a day or 2 I will run scans.

See in this case, all I can tell you is that you just have to try it. Do you think that I have always been this brilliant mad scientist (jk) that always ran a full diagnostics before every repair? No, I had to learn this the hard way, both from a business perspective and from a technicians perspective.

From a business perspective it does a few things

- Again, it covers my butt

- It justifies the cost of services to the customer "You are charging me how much for something that only took you how long!" see what I am saying?

- I charge for a diagnostics up front before every repair and I can do this because I actually perform one. That said, every shop (with the exception of one) around here charges a diagnostics if the customer does not repair their computer, I just happen to be one of the only ones that actually performs it.

- I am glad you brought up mechanics because they are just like techs. There are shady ones and good ones, small Mom and Pops and Big chains. Do you know what most all of them have in common, most of them charge for a diagnostics. If people think you are shady and that you are taking advantage of them then one of two things is happening, either you have really bad social skills or they are skeptical of everyone and you should have picked that up from the beginning.


From a technical perspective, it just saves time and headache when it comes to troubleshooting.


In short, it is up to you to make the customer feel that they are being taken care of and that it is in their best interest to allow you to do this. I have had several thousand customers over the last few years and I have done things this way thousands of times and I can count maybe 3 times where I actually had to print a diagnostics log.

 

[FoolishTech]

Not to get into the always test hardware regardless, even it it's an install MS Office job..... I won't fight that battle; but I will offer a few reasons to consider doing it.

....one way to look at doing hardware diagnostics every time is to offer it as a "value added service" to your customers. Simply put, Free Hardware Diagnostics (or free with every service if you want the $$ regardless.) Just something to offer the customer that comes in for something so trivial and seemingly straight forward, so that they feel they are getting extra benefit by choosing you over your competition.

Naturally this method also has the added bonus that you could find a hardware problem and call the customer's attention to it, and possibly generate more revenue for yourself.

Not to mention the fact that the customer may have neglected to tell you that they already tried to install MS Office and it failed (for example let's say they have a possibe hard drive issue, which may of course also be causing other issues with the system they also didn't tell you about.) As a side note I find that sometimes customers may assume that their failure to do something properly is user issue, so they didn't even mention it to you perhaps due to embarrassment, that they had tried something and failed - much less tell you what the error was or when it occurred which could save you tons of time if you had that prior knowledge. Then of course the Office install might work for you at the time you tried it, so you would never know of the potential failure had you not done diagnostics; ultimately you just lost income on a HDD replacement.

Not saying that is always the case, you know 9/10 times or greater it is in fact a user issue... but it's nice when it works out that, for whatever reason, you can generate more revenue! Also as mentioned, even if it doesn't work out that way it isn't lost time; you've provided a value added service to the customer so they will be more likely to choose you over a competitor in the future.

 

[anglian]

Out of interest...

what % of HDD's that you test, where the client has not reported any HDD related issues, shows up with faults where you would recommend a replacement?

 

[nightkingdoms]

I'd say easily 35% of my calls are HDD issues. People have been holding onto their computers (at least around here) for 5-7+ years, sometimes more. I ask them at the beginning how old the computer is and what work they've had done before. Almost always they've never had the hard drive fail before. Now they're getting BSODs, I/O errors in Windows, slow computer response, etc. which they think are viruses or some software they installed.

Most of my clients who have an HDD issue can't believe that something would fail "that quickly". I politely inform them that the average lifespan of an HDD is only 3-5 years with regular use. While most of the rest of the computer usually lasts longer with good maintenance, HDDs are one of the first to go in my opinion because it's constantly chugging away, only next to power supply fans. The fact that they've had it 7+ years without an issue is awesome in my book. I've personally had a hard drive for over 10 years without an issue, but it died hard, very, very hard when it did. lol

 

[PCX]

Not to get into the always test hardware regardless, even it it's an install MS Office job..... I won't fight that battle; but I will offer a few reasons to consider doing it.

....one way to look at doing hardware diagnostics every time is to offer it as a "value added service" to your customers. Simply put, Free Hardware Diagnostics (or free with every service if you want the $$ regardless.) Just something to offer the customer that comes in for something so trivial and seemingly straight forward, so that they feel they are getting extra benefit by choosing you over your competition.

Naturally this method also has the added bonus that you could find a hardware problem and call the customer's attention to it, and possibly generate more revenue for yourself.

Not to mention the fact that the customer may have neglected to tell you that they already tried to install MS Office and it failed (for example let's say they have a possibe hard drive issue, which may of course also be causing other issues with the system they also didn't tell you about.) As a side note I find that sometimes customers may assume that their failure to do something properly is user issue, so they didn't even mention it to you perhaps due to embarrassment, that they had tried something and failed - much less tell you what the error was or when it occurred which could save you tons of time if you had that prior knowledge. Then of course the Office install might work for you at the time you tried it, so you would never know of the potential failure had you not done diagnostics; ultimately you just lost income on a HDD replacement.

Not saying that is always the case, you know 9/10 times or greater it is in fact a user issue... but it's nice when it works out that, for whatever reason, you can generate more revenue! Also as mentioned, even if it doesn't work out that way it isn't lost time; you've provided a value added service to the customer so they will be more likely to choose you over a competitor in the future.

Exactly, you gotta sell them the service. Diagnostics add value to your service every time.

"Oh, your also going to do a system check up on my computer for that same price? Wow, thanks!"

Seriously, when you sell it to them and tell them about the advantages and how it benefits them, they will in most cases go for it. That said, most people think its just standard anyways, they just don't really understand what it is or why its importance. Its up to you to educate them.

Here's the other thing, if you do not believe in this (well then that's your loss) then you will not be able to sell them this and convince them that this is to their advantage. You will also in most cases not make as much money. People can see if you doubt what you are doing or what you are offering.

Finally, this is one of the reasons why I can charge more than my competition.

Out of interest...

what % of HDD's that you test, where the client has not reported any HDD related issues, shows up with faults where you would recommend a replacement?

Close to half. And at least half if not more of the computers that come in for Virus Removals or tune-ups have failing hard drives. I at one point of time actually looked at the reports and posted the percentage on the forum, but I cant remember the exact number, I think it was like 60%.

Of those failing hard drive, I would say that I replaced at least 90% of them, the rest at least paid for data transfer or recovery.

The few that did not, I at least got paid for my diagnostics that I charged up front.

 

[kevinjhaag]

Out of interest...

what % of HDD's that you test, where the client has not reported any HDD related issues, shows up with faults where you would recommend a replacement?

At least 75% I would say for me... Maybe even more. There's still a lot of old computers out there. In my tests, A 3+ year old computer will most likely have a fault. Others may have different results depending on what they work on, how the customer took care of it, how old it is, demographics, etc.. I big percentage of mine are either 3+ year old hard drives or laptop hard drives.

 

[rsarceno]

about pulling HDDs....On my bench systems I have something like 18" IDE and SATA cables laying out. (They aren't always easy to find, but usually can be found in places where more server components are sold, as some servers actually need the length.) So all I need to do is pop the side of the case, position it relatively close to the tech bench machine, and attach the cable. No "pulling" HDDs out of the case is needed!

I used to have long cables but I replace it with SATA IDE HDD Docking Station. It's cheap, about $50 that supports two drives. I have esata port 1 connected to PC 1 for drive 1, esata port 2 connected to PC 2 for drive 2 and USB connected to PC#3 than can access both drive 1 and 2. It's makes life a lot easier when doing data recovery.

 

[gazza]

I have to agree!

I charge a non refundable diagnostic fee before I even start to work on a any computer this will include a physical inspection, running smart tests, memory tests, running Passmark from a live environment and a image backup.

It is amazing how many customers bring in computers and tell me that they have a virus and the computers running really slow and it turns out to be a failing hard drive or something else.

If the customer goes ahead with the repair, the fix is completed, I will run a stress/burn-in test for 4hours with Passmark after the repair to confirm the fix and that the computer is running OK.

A report is printed and give to the customer and yes I still charge them a diagnostic fee, I do not waive the fee just because they went ahead with the repair.

Another example is when you diagnose a motherboard level problem with a laptop and customer says no to the repair as it is too expensive, I will just get a new laptop, do you still charge a diagnostic fee even though you have not fixed anything? bloody oath!

AS for being able to test 20+ machines a day, not in my one man band.

 

[crashtech]

4. PSU: I use a PSU tester as well as a good PSU to swap out for a second opinion. PSU testers are great for quick results, but it wont always catch intermittent issues.

I'm curious to know if you use something beyond the commonly available PSU testers that don't put loads on the rails or determine whether the voltage is in spec, stable, and free of noise and ripple.

I've had the cheap testers give me false negatives on more than one occasion, so powering the machine with an alternate "known good" PSU is often part of an attempt to track down an elusive problem.

Part swapping is ultimately the most expedient method of getting a machine up and running, but it sometimes feels a bit quick and dirty to me, certainly it lacks some definitiveness, such that one can say a part was "no good", just not exactly what was no good about it...

 

[anglian]

Another example is when you diagnose a motherboard level problem with a laptop and customer says no to the repair as it is too expensive, I will just get a new laptop, do you still charge a diagnostic fee even though you have not fixed anything? bloody oath!

Absolutely, I clearly offer a "No Fix - No Fee" on my site, however this is described in my TOS & Clearly shown on my "rates" page as;

No Fix No Fee: If we are unable to offer a solution to your problem we will not charge a fee.
However, if we diagnose a problem and it is chosen not to proceed with a repair we will charge a minimum diagnostic fee of £39.95

 

[PCX]

Absolutely, I clearly offer a "No Fix - No Fee" on my site, however this is described in my TOS & Clearly shown on my "rates" page as;

All I can say is that you are shooting yourself in the foot. We have only one shop around here that does that and they are the cheapest and the second worst shop in our area. I am not saying that you are a bad tech, but the point is this. Not only are you wasting your time and losing money, but you are wasting your paying customers time. Your paying customers come first period, and they need to know that the money they gave you is valuable to you or more accurately, they need to know that their business is appreciated and that they are a priority. So what are you doing working on computers that you are not getting paid for? All you are doing is appeasing their curiosity and making your turn around time even longer for those who are paying for repairs. Also, it just makes you look desperate for work, at least to people who are upper class and willing to pay for repairs.

Anyways, stop wasting time on those customers that are not willing to pay for a diagnostics, you do not want those customers, but you do WANT the paying customers to come back. If you cannot get things done in a timely manner because you are working on other peoples computers that may or may not pay you, then you are screwing your paid customers over and they may or may not come back to you if they are not satisfied with your turn around time.


Anyways, in short here are my points

Your losing money: In the last few months I have made between 1500-2000 in diagnostics alone. That's just for people who did not do the repairs. I cannot give you an exact figure because my diagnostics fees range from 50 to 75, but at the end of the year, that's could be the difference between lower class and middle class. Also, when you charge a diagnostics fee up front, it makes people more likely to do the repairs because of the initial investment. Finally, charging a diagnostics fee up front helps to keep cash flow coming in, which is extremely important if you are a small time tech or shop.

Your wasting time: Your wasting your time that you are not getting paid for as well as your customers time who is paying you good money (hopefully) to get their computer done in the timely manner.

Your wasting resources: This actually could be explained in a whole other post, so just give it some thought.

Your cheapening your services: By using the "no fix no pay" method, you are telling customers that your opinion does not really matter and that its just that, an opinion. If you do not like my opinion of what is wrong, then you can ask the next guy. You know what the difference is between a professional and a hobbiest? A professional gets paid for their time, so why aren't you?

I could keep going on with reason after reason, but I think I have made my point and yes, I realize I kinda said the same thing over and over again in different ways . . . sorry.


EDIT: The one thing I suggest is that instead of using the "No Fix, No Pay" method, charge for a diagnostics and guarantee you work and your diagnostics. This shows confidence in your abilities, adds value to your services and it really leaves the customer no reason not to pay for a diagnostics, unless they are just cheap and as you already know, we do not want cheap customers.

 

[anglian]

Whoaaaaa there PCX,
I noticed you only quoted half my post. I only offer No fix No Fee if I am unable to offer a solution to a problem.
I think it is fair enough if a client brings in a pc and says "it's broke" I look at it, haven't got a clue whats wrong so I don't charge them.
I run diagnostics, and discover it needs a new mobo, hdd, processor, PSU & memory, I then tell them this, and IF they decide not to fix it they pay a diagnostic fee.
This in no way cheapens my service, if anything it shows that I have confidence in my abilities as a tech that I WILL be able to find the problem, and when I do I WILL get paid.

 

[Encrypted Existence]

my diagnostics fees range from 50 to 75

Would you mind explaining this in a little more detail please? (What constitutes one diagnostic to be $50 and another to be $75?) Thanks.

 

[PCX]

Whoaaaaa there PCX,
I noticed you only quoted half my post. I only offer No fix No Fee if I am unable to offer a solution to a problem.
I think it is fair enough if a client brings in a pc and says "it's broke" I look at it, haven't got a clue whats wrong so I don't charge them.
I run diagnostics, and discover it needs a new mobo, hdd, processor, PSU & memory, I then tell them this, and IF they decide not to fix it they pay a diagnostic fee.
This in no way cheapens my service, if anything it shows that I have confidence in my abilities as a tech that I WILL be able to find the problem, and when I do I WILL get paid.

Sorry, I miss understood . . . but I have to ask you, when is it that you cannot figure out whats wrong with a computer?