Is Ubuntu Linux ready for the average Mom/Pop home User?

[codegreen]

This would be *the* place in the Internet for our "Mom and Pop" end-users to post their questions about their new OS.

Well, we're going to have to actually disagree here. Out of your four examples, only the webcam thread is a mom-and-pop type issue. The second is about someone wanting to modify the behavour of the bootloader menu. The third is someone actively seeking to learn the command line. The fourth is about installation issues.

Point is, mom-and-pop would never be doing items two through four. On the Ubuntu forums, an "absolute beginner" is still someone who is comfortable installing their own operating system. Mom-and-pop users aren't going to post on the Ubuntu forums for help. They'd ask the person that set up Ubuntu for them in the first place.

 

[angry_geek]

. . . They'd ask the person that set up Ubuntu for them in the first place.

. . . and ask, and ask, and ask, and keep asking. Sometimes on the phone, sometimes at chamber of commerce meetings, sometimes at the bar, and even one time at a funeral.

If any of you really want to give your customers the joy and anguish of linux, go right ahead. I've done this; I'll not do it again. I'll continue offering Windows and OSX, my customers will be happy with usable computers, I won't have to waste hour upon hour supporting a "free" operating system. For those who are seeking expert opinion: I'm certain I'm not the only one posting in this thread who has tried offering linux to customers, so take our advice. Remember: "An expert is one who has made all the mistakes which can be made, in a narrow field."

 

[TechLady]

And this would be where I part ways with a lot of the more fervent Linux crowd--when it becomes religion. I find this just as irritating as Mac people who sing the high praises of Macs and get so evangelical about it you wish they had a mute button. No system is perfect. (And we would have no business if they were!). I agree with the others who have said that on a practical level for your average end user, open-source has made tremendous strides, but there are still problems. Sometimes the simplest tasks in Linux can require a spectacular array of technical acrobatics that simply wouldn’t be necessary on the other major OSes. So yes, the hidden cost of Linux is time. (The not-so-hidden cost of switching to Mac is money--lots of it). I too fooled around with Corel Linux when it first came out. It was quite thrilling. But even then there was a tremendous amount of aggravation that came with it. Like Bertie said, I want to like Linux (and I mostly do) but they don’t make it easy--and that hasn’t changed from my very first foray with Linux over a decade ago.

I’ve tried for many months now to sell some of my lower-tech customers on Chromebooks. For many of them I think they would be a perfect fit. But I can see their eyes glaze over as soon as I explain the little “exceptions”...no installing Word, Outlook, AOL, etc., etc. And that’s the end of it. My one shining Linux success is my little old lady client that makes me brownies every time I show up, the one running Ubuntu (with Unity!) on her old laptop. But again, all she does is email, a few flash games, and typing a letter once in a while. She has probably the most stable system out of my entire client base, but that’s as much because of her as it is her OS. She doesn’t ask much. (And she makes KILLER brownies).

Speaking of Word, when I was a tech with a school district the IT director was so convinced that Writer was such a perfect and interchangeable replacement for Word that she went ahead and had us take away Word and install Libreoffice all over the district, without discussion. To save money of course. But it almost goes without saying it was an unmitigated disaster in countless ways. So many unanticipated (well, unanticipated to my boss) problems came up we were half expecting torches and pitchforks greeting us when we arrived for work in the morning. They had to completely reverse course and install new versions of Word around the district and it created a lot of unnecessary ill-will towards our department. If Writer were “perfect” and “just like Word” for the typical not-so-savvy end-user, that little episode wouldn’t have blown up like the Hindenburg. (Though the way it was foisted on everyone with no discussion didn’t help).

As far as Linux being ready for professional photography: no. Just no. Photography is really my second business and if the beginning and end of your relationship with photography is “well if you do it right, then you shouldn’t even need Photoshop”--that is fine, but it is not my relationship with photography. Yes, you do need to know what you are doing, but...

Photoshop and Lightroom are good for correcting flaws for sure, but I use them for communicating atmosphere and statements as much as fixing annoyances. I don’t look at them as a chemistry set for cleaning up a little thing here and there and then putting them away in the cupboard. It’s the sheer artistic power that the Linux side is missing. I don’t think there are accurate and powerful color calibration tools in Linux either, which is a big problem also. So...I guess all this is why when the chips are down you don’t turn to Darkroom in Linux, you turn to Windows 7 and Lightroom. I don’t fault the open-source community for this. It’s disappointing that the chasm exists but there it is--I just choose to make my way around it.

 

[gunslinger]

Gimp and Open Office will have a majority of the users at about the same time the US will switch entirely to the metric system.

Exactly!

Bottom line: In my opinion, based on professional experience and observation (I tried to do this for some clients), Linux is not ready for the masses. I don't think it will ever be ready.

Agreed. Linux is great is certain situations but its certainly not for the masses yet and I think the Linux geeks will see to it that it never is.

 

[coffee]

(Photo removed)

I was just getting upset with all the negativity. But I should expect that from a business forum when you mention anything good about linux.

 

[16k_zx81]

WTF? I dont get it.

 

[16k_zx81]

They'd ask the person that set up Ubuntu for them in the first place.

Yeah, I dont know. Plenty of my customers google for solutions before coming to me. And actually a lot of them will try ideas suggested in Forum posts, and this would be a 'first stop' as a point of reference.

Actually 'posting' and asking for help, well you may have a point.

I maintain, though, that the 'absolute beginners' section is the closest thing to a 'total n00bs' help area, and what it says (and this was the point I was making) is that 'solutions' for Linux problems are still predominantly config edits and terminal lines.

You may disagree about the underlying mechanics of how people will actually seek out solutions, but I think we both agree on the conclusion that for end users, these methods (Terminal, Text-edit) remain 'out of reach' in a technical sense. That was the point I was trying to make, albeit, clumsily

 

[codegreen]

If any of you really want to give your customers the joy and anguish of linux, go right ahead.

Nope. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, used it to wipe my weeping eyes.

 

[Choppie]

.LOG
-----------------
Log File:2013.03.26

AND IT BEGINS:

Subject: Linux Mint 14.1 Cinnamon CrashDummy


Gateway MX8739 Laptop (Donated by client 2yr ago)
Intel® 943GML
17.1-inch Ultrabright™ WXGA TFT (1440 × 900)
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950
Up to 224 MB shared video memory
Intel Pentium Dual-Core Mobile processor T2060
2 X 512MB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM SODIMM 200pin (1GB)
120-GB 5400 RPM SATA hard drive

Some more specs can be found here;

Gateway MX8739 Notebook Specifications
Part Number: 1014612RGateway MX8739 Notebook

http://support.gateway.com/s/Mobile/2007/SonicC/1014612R/1014612Rsp2.shtml


10:28 AM 3/26/2013

While downloading said above Mint, was playing in bios, and started the SMART Battery Auto-Learning....currently at 79% complete.



10:42 AM 3/26/2013
Burning said OS to DVD via ImgBurn


10:44 AM 3/26/2013
SMART Battery Auto-Learning 81% complete

ImgBurm currently in I 10:45:02 Verifying Track 1 of 1... (MODE1/2048, LBA: 0 - 450047)

Tapping foot...waiting...

Stopping Smart Battery Auto-Learning.....have no patience...will do later...

Begin install of Mint...

10:50 AM 3/26/2013
Mint boot screen is up.....DVD is clanking around....all fingers crosed that WiFi drivers will be found/installed....will report back when able...


...C
Out

 

[Choppie]

10:56 AM 3/26/2013
Found WiFi in heart beat....

I can see all of my (7 each) used/donated wireless routers on line...displaying varrious SSID

FBI_takedown_van333
CIA_WIRETAP333

AND so on and so forth....

Do you want to replace Fedora Release 14 (Laughlin) with Linux Mint


I'm going in....if no one hears from me....send help


...C

out

 

[coffee]

I see so many negative comments about linux it really surprises me. In fact, I took the time to go thru the negative posts to see what the underlying issues were towards such opinions. Everyone has an opinion and I tend to respect them and the poster. Disagreeing with something is fine. But Lets not shoot the messenger shall we?

As I have stated before, Linux has its strengths and weaknesses just like anything else in life. To base your opinion on one bad experience is not fair. Had I done that with windows I would never had touched it again for the last 10 years or so. I think what really turns people off about it is that they just do not fully comprehend what linux is and how it does not conform to the ways that windows adheres too. There are also alot of people that will read these posts and not even attempt to try linux basing their opinion solely on what others have said. With that in mind, Lets take a look at what Linux really is and what it is not and also where and why it is useful.

What is linux ?

Linux comprises only the kernel of the operating system. Technically, When you use a blanket statement of "linux" you are only referring to the kernel of the operating system and not the programs associated with it. It performs the same functions as the kernel in any other operating system but more efficiently. The drivers for most hardware are built into the kernel therefore you do not need the bloated driver disks that come from many hardware vendors. The hardware is recognized by the kernel and setup accordingly for use. The only drawback to this is that there are manufactures for some reason or another do not offer drivers or support for those that write driver software for linux. These must be reverse engineered and tested which takes alot of time by developers. For the most part, 90 percent of most hardware is supported in linux. When we walk into a data center to perform our duties it is very typical now to see linux servers performing some of the most critical operations for companies. Therefore the wise tech knows that having knowledge of linux and how to work with it is very important in todays world.

Software that runs on linux

After the kernel loads you are able to run useful programs on the computer. These programs are for the most part "OpenSource". Opensource means that the source code from which it was compiled is freely available and can be altered by anyone that wishes. This software is also free of charge and you can install it on as many computers as you wish and not be encumbered by licenses or other restrictions. Most all this software comes from repositories. These are servers that freely donate programs for installation on any computer usually from over a internet connection. Each distribution of "linux" includes their preference of opensource software in the default installation. However, As a user you can install any program you wish after that and many are included in the repositories.

Therefore, The kernel loads and then various programs run from the kernel to provide a working environment. This brings us to the Desktop.

With many distributions of "linux" (Ill refer to as flavors from now on) a graphical desktop is employed to make things easier for the user. The exception to this rule are flavors offered for minimal hardware requirements or servers. An example of this is Ubuntu's server flavor. This comes with no desktop but you can easily add one if you wish. There are many to pick from. You choose the one that fits your needs the most.

Because linux is a modular operating system you can change your desktop to any one that is available. Infact, You can logout and normally change which desktop you want to use and log back in and use it. Also, Most everything in the desktop is configurable. You are not tied into just one desktop and have no other choice. Linux is about freedom and configuration to provide you with what you need to be more productive.

The most common desktop environments include gnome (2, and 3), XFCE, LXDE, KDE, Mate, Cinnamon and Enlightenment. Not every desktop is suitable for everyone. This is why you have a choice. It is recommended that you try them out and see which one fits your needs best. Never go on what someone says is the "best" because someone's opinion will not reflect your needs in a desktop. As an example, If you are working with memory or graphics restrictions then running gnome probably should not be your first choice. Instead try LXDE that provides a robust desktop with out all the memory hungry bells and whistles.

Common Misconceptions about linux

1. I tried linux once about 2 years ago and hated it. Ill never touch that junk again.

It is not my goal to change your opinion about something. Everyone likes something and hates other things. Its human nature. However, Its important to understand that there are those that will base their decision on such a blanket statement and never try it. You are actually doing a disservice to them and your community when you make such blanket statements. It would be far better to state your opinion following these guidelines:

A: What your actual problem running linux was.
B: Where you turned to for help with the problem.
C: What flavor where you using
D: What hardware (if applicable) did you have problems with.

Most all blanket statements like this can be traced back to a general misunderstanding about the flavor of linux you tried or not seeking help in resolving something that upset them. Many first time users make the mistake of picking the wrong flavor of linux or try to do too much before getting used to a new operating system. Having minimal experience with linux and trying to accomplish advanced tasks will most likely lead to failure. If your having problems getting software or hardware to operate correctly it would be wise instead to visit a forum based on the flavor you are using and atleast ask if anyone else had this issue. In most cases someone has and their is a fix available to do it. You just never bothered to look or ask. I have seen my share of hate posts from users using getting their first experience with linux with something like Fedora and then spouting off how terrible linux is. Had they actually visited the fedora site they would have known that Fedora is a test bed for Redhat. There are things that dont work or fail to keep working because of updates that break something. This is the nature of the beast when working with "Bleeding Edge" flavors.

2. To run linux you better be a geek.

Not true. This is another misconception carried over from the old days of linux. When I first started using linux I had to compile my kernel, Find support for my video card, Labor thru getting programs to even run - including the desktop! But those days are mostly over. Today you can actually take a flavor like MINT and boot a live cd and be presented with a desktop and working environment. In fact, This is the preferred way of checking the requirements of your computer to make sure all your hardware is compatible. There are many people using linux and alot of them I would not consider geeks. They are looking for an operating system that makes it easy to get their work done and makes them more productive. Installing programs are easily done by clicking on a button. Most flavors offer some form of desktop and program selection. Unless you consider a geek a person that can click a button I would have to disagree with such statements.

3. The only reason linux does not have viruses is because its not worth writing them for this obscure operating system.

Unlike windows, Linux was designed with security as one of the main requirements. Linux is developed with multiuser support which in its self requires some form of security to keep one user from accessing data of another. To perform any task such as installing software, Making hardware or configuration changes ultimately requires root access to the operating system. Therefore, Should a virus be available it is up to the user to provide such access thru inputting the root password. The linux operating system is based on permissions and ownership of files and directories. One cannot alter the data of another user or the root operating system with out permission. Any program (harmful software) that wishes to run on linux has to have permission. Should this software need to change a configuration file you will be prompted to enter the root password. Without this permission nothing can get harmed. Even if harmful software was to invade your computer by way of a download from a untrusted source it can only damage that user's account. It does not affect the operating system as a whole and therefore can be corrected easily.

4. If linux was so great why isnt it offered on computers when you buy them? Infact, I remember some companies trying it and it was a complete failure!

Companies like Microsoft and Apple have a long reputation of protecting their territories. Apple only allows their software on their hardware. Thus it is a very proprietary operating system. Basically, If you want to run apple then you buy their computers to do it. Apple by nature does not allow linux to be installed as this would infringe on their monopoly of users and thus causing them loss of revenue. Microsoft is even worse. With their "agreements" and licensing practices they have for the most part forbid manufacturers of even dealing with the linux operating system. They have threatened them, Spread false rumors and other practices to protect their market share. This is all a bad situation for the computer user. In fact, We are now faced with fact that manufactures of Operating systems now dictate to the user how, When and where they are allowed to use their operating system. Even worse, Microsoft has gone so far as to push hardware and bios manufactuers to adhere to such idiotic things as EFI - The restriction of (or future restriction) of other operating systems under the disguise of "stopping virus infections".

5. Offering linux to customers and supporting them will be a nightmare and you will suffer accordingly.

Any tech that services Windows for a living has a fleet of software programs designed to repair and make needed changes to the operating system. They also have studied a great deal about the registry, Obscure directories and configuration problems in order to make the repair as painless and quick as possible for them. The same can be done for linux. In fact, There will actually be fewer issues to overcome when facing a service call with linux as most problems are very well documented. Its not the fact that it will be a nightmare for techs. Its the fact that techs are comfortable with where they are and do not care about venturing out of their comfort zone. Also, As I stated earlier, Trying to accomplish things beyond your skill level always leads to suffering. This is why I dont as a rule service my own car beyond an oil change unless I am well prepared for the task. This can involve something as easy as "googling" for an answer or asking in a support forum. With the amount of customers that I have running linux I have never ran into a problem that I could not solve - And solve in less time than something as removing a infection from windows. Of course this is not because I am some great geek or anything like that. Its just that I have ran into these problems before and know how to correct them. Which is the cornerstone of anyone providing a software repair.

6. I dont care what you say. I will never bother with this operating system and I think you are stupid to do it.

Thats fine. Your opinion is basically that. Had I listened to other peoples "opinions" I would never had experienced some great things in life. Just because you had a bad experience with something does not in any way dictate the experience of another person. Also, Arbitrary blanket statements about something are designed to persuade someone from doing something without any credible examples. This is not how I pattern my life after. Linux is not for everyone. You may find that maybe 1 percent of your clients do well with linux. Thats fine. But the next time your phone rings from "xyz" company having an issue with a linux server or similar device you will enjoy the revenue and will become the "go to" man for their needs.

In conclusion

It is your decision as to what customers you introduce another operating system on. This has to be based on their needs, The operating systems strengths and weaknesses. You will never come away with anything more than a nightmare if you do not know these things. To think that any one operating system is the answer to everyone needs is incorrect and short sided also. What is worse than anything is the fact that there are people out there that want to influence others based on their lack of knowledge.

 

[compnet]

I can't imagine a tech here that doesn't have some linux distro live cd at the least. We don't hate linux. Nothing in that wall of text addresses the issue of word, photoshop, random printers, webcams, and other peripherals.

Our phone server is on freepbx. Our pcrt server is centos. I've set up ubuntu server and had it running a bunch a virtual servers, and for the purpose it was much more efficient than windows. I have 2 ubuntu bench machines. All of my flash drives can boot to mint, fedora, puppy, and multiple versions of ubuntu. I'm no linux guru, but I've more than given it a shot. I can't think of a single client I would suggest linux for, unless its a specific server, or a SINGLE purpose desktop.

 

[Choppie]

CrashDummy report

Logged in to Technibble via CrashDummy....all systems are go.

Sorry, would have reported sooner, but was having too much fun with MINT on the Gateway CrashDummy...

Running perfectly!

Has been up and running almost 40 min....have been poaking around with this and that, and its working perfectly. Have already installed TeamViewer--not a single issue.

However...

Have noticed one thing....when switching between caps, after typing the first letter, the cap, the second letter is also a cap, in other words, the cap or shift key command is not responding fast enough to keep up with my 75+ WPM typing speed...not the end of the world.....

going back to have more fun....

OH....small report here.....so far durring this small test, I am 100% cofident that the testers I have in mind will love this...

<\report>

Report back when able..

...C
OUT..

 

[gunslinger]

3. The only reason linux does not have viruses is because its not worth writing them for this obscure operating system.

People have been saying this same garbage about OSX for years. Its the first comment I look for to weed out trolls...lol

 

[SilverLeaf]

I've been following this thread for some time now, despite it's tendency to try to jump the rails...and I have had mixed feelings about the topic.

One one hand, I'm a big Linux/FOSS evangelist, and I understand the substantial benefits that can be realized here (choice, security, control, performance,etc...). It just seems unreasonable to me to categorically dismiss Linux as a possible solution to a customer's problem (reviving old hardware, virus-prone-porn-surfer, and so on).

On the other hand, I understand the issues that can crop up, and have had to deal with those on occasions. And, as mentioned throughout this thread, it usually involves Win-printers and proprietary software and services. These can be showstoppers.

That being said, as I mentioned earlier; if you take the time to ask the right questions and properly qualify your customer, this can work in some situations. The key is to present the pros and cons upfront, asses the customers proficiency and interest, and manage their expectations.

Is Linux ready for "the average Mom/Pop"? I think the more appropriate question is: Are Mom/Pop ready for Linux? Many, probably not. In some cases, they aren't ready for Windows either, but they find a way to stumble through it. Take it case by case, and then decide.

 

[altrenda]

Is Linux ready for "the average Mom/Pop"? I think the more appropriate question is: Are Mom/Pop ready for Linux? Many, probably not. In some cases, they aren't ready for Windows either, but they find a way to stumble through it. Take it case by case, and then decide.

+1
The main issue for average users is support. There is much more support more easily available for Windows or OS X.
1. Issue with their ISP. they call the cable co. or ATT about a connection issue. (I just did this for a client last night) Tier 1 support easily can handle Windows or Mac, but how about Linux?

2. They see a commercial for Turbo Tax and log in Online. No Linux support, even for the Online Edition (although it used to work in previous years). Many programs have "similar" alternatives, not all are acceptable to regular users.

There is nothing wrong with saying Linux is more geared to Above Average users. It's not a put down, it's just reality.

 

[16k_zx81]

I see so many negative comments about linux... yadda yadda yadda ... completely off topic... What is worse than anything is the fact that there are people out there that want to influence others based on their lack of knowledge.

Yeah, I get that you are a fan.

I like Linux too.

I dont think anyone here is a Linux-basher. We all have varying degrees of experience with it, but I think everyone thats a tech and has been a computing enthusiast for any period of time, will have a pretty good background in Linux use. I have been using it since the days the GUI was called X and pretty much lost interest when Unity came out. I still pull out the occasional live cd when I have cause - which is fairly regularly as it happens.

I can see it took a long time to put your post together. Its a really long post! But it seems to have very little to do with the question, which is; is Buntu ready for the average 'mom and pop' user.

There have been many valid points made for the negative case, few of which are actually addressed by what you said. (think about it).

Not many people here actually saying "hell yeah, I have bucket loads of home users that have switched to Buntu and they are having a ball" - in fact, none that I can see.

I get that its probably a bit annoying seeing something you love 'unappreciated', but in this particular instance - a very specific application of the technology - it fails. Thats not to say Buntu is bad, or not really great tech in other instances - just that in this particular situation, its not ideally suited.

Unfortunately, writing to a bunch of wrong assumptions about a presumed 'lack of understanding' in the Community, does nothing for the affirmative case you seem to be trying to put.

But by all means, write to examples where you have long-standing average family users who have switched to Linux without needing bucket loads of tech support and without having significant issues over time with software availability/compatibility and hardware compatibility.

Please also tell us real life examples of where this computing experinence was demonstrably better than that would have been possible using one of the 'big 4' OSs.

Again, no one's saying Win or OSX or whatever is perfect. What is being said, that in a relative sense, they offer easier prospects for end-users than Buntu.

And *again* no one's saying 'Buntu is not a great OS, but this argument is, and has to be, relative to what is out there already. And relative to what people are using, it remains pretty crap as an option for "average mom and pop" end-users.

 

[Choppie]

Update:

Making a correction...

The install is actually Linux Mint 14.1 Nadia

Did a 230MB, 217 file update without a single hitch. Rebooted and everything is actually working.

TeamViewer 8 is working perfectly however, would not automaticaly load with the system at start up, and does not have an option to select to do so as it is running in a Wine environment however, I found a work around;

Did a search for team and found a ton of stuff including all the .dll files. Tried adding a batch file in the user account to run the teamviewer.exe file, but failed to load. Then I went to the start menue and located the icons/launch buttons in the start menu, did a right click but nothing. I then copied it to the desktop and did a right click and went to properties, and found the path/file it was pointing to. I then ended up using the applet/wizard to add programs to startup, and locate that script....worked perfectly. But does not default to minamize to task bar after the desktop is up and running. No big deal, just have to tell the CrashDummy (Barbara) to just minamize it when she boots up.

I have created a few icons on the desktop; Comcast Email, Florida Home Page (a page on my domain that I created just for my clients with all the local shops and news links, http://room333.com/fl.html, ) and a google search. All of these are already on my page, but some people like them on their desktop.

I have an offical eta of CrashDummy manuvers commencement; The week of the 6th next month. Will need a small Netgear hub and a 5ft Cat5e patch cable, a nice dell keyboard/mouse to attach to said laptop, as Barbara already mentioned that she cant stand typing on those small keys....


...C
Out

 

[coffee]

I dont know how I missed this --> http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/06/microsoft-considering-a-linux-version-of-office-in-2014/

(coffee puts on his tux mask) "Soon my friends, Soon... We shall take over the world! (Doctor evil laugh)...

 

[rjframe]

Their source:

"This rumor stems from a source in Brussels, Belgium, who spoke to Phoronix’s Michael Larabel at FOSDEM, one of Europe’s larger open source conferences. According to this source, who is presumably one of Microsoft’s open source developers, Microsoft is taking a “meaningful look” at releasing a full Linux port of Office in 2014."

Somebody told someone who claims to be... not sure how reliable this rumor could be. If it's true, it's probably because "Microsoft is reportedly already working on Office for Android." They'll already have a near-compatible port, so they may as well try it and see if they can make some money.

As far as Microsoft making Office open source, it will never happen.