Is Ubuntu Linux ready for the average Mom/Pop home User?

[16k_zx81]

I agree when it comes to adding hardware (Linux support isn't a priority for manufactures), and particular software (Office, games), but really, these days the list doesn't actually go much further than that. Sure, problems can turn up that require arcane-to-end-user fixes, but that's hardly unique to Linux. A good chunk of my business comes from fixing things in Windows that used to work but got borked by some update or new piece of software. If these fixes were easy for end-users in Windows, they wouldn't be calling me.

Windows has its own long list of problems and annoyances. But people are used to them, and treat them as "normal". The biggest problem with switching people to Linux, and the reason I don't normally do it, is that the world assumes you're running either Windows or a Mac. Most of the problems with Linux stem from that printer on sale at Wal-mart not having Linux drivers, or 1st level tech support telling you that your OS is "not supported". These aren't things that a typical home users should have to deal with.

I dont think I actually said at any point that the 'big 4' OSs were in any way perfect.

I dont think I said anything about them being hassle free, either.

What I did say, was, relatively speaking, for end-users wanting to add software or hardware to an existing rig, that Linux is generally a lot trickier than 'mainstream' OSs, for the simple fact that it is far less supported by hardware manufacturers than OSX or WIN, and MUCH less supported by software developers than WIN, OSX, IOS, or ANDROID.

If you are really arguing the case that WIN, IOS, OSX, and Android a are somehow equivalent for 'average' (and bear in mind this question is about 'average mom and pop', ie 'average' domestic) end-user hassles than Linux, then you and I will have to agree to differ on that point.

 

[nlinecomputers]

It's not the OS. It's the apps.

Lack of Quickbooks, Photoshop, and Office is what kills Linux adoption. Why is the iPhone so popular? The apps. No one give a crap about iOS. It is the app store and 10 million apps that makes that phone sell.

 

[codegreen]

If you are really arguing the case that WIN, IOS, OSX, and Android a are somehow equivalent for 'average' (and bear in mind this question is about 'average mom and pop', ie 'average' domestic) end-user hassles than Linux, then you and I will have to agree to differ on that point.

No, that's not what I'm trying to argue. What I'm pointing out is that the hassles for the average computer user using Linux stem almost entirely from that fact that it is not a mainstream, manufacture-supported OS. The "long list" of Linux problems for "mom and pop" is actually a short list:

1. "I bought a <new piece of hardware> and it doesn't work." (no Linux support from the manufacturer)
2. "I need/want to run <Windows-specific software>." (lack of Linux support from major software companies)
3. "I have Internet problems but <ISP> won't help me!" (lack of Linux support by service providers)

These are major issues, of course, but it's not really a long list. The question is, do the advantages of switching to Linux outweigh these issues? For the vast majority of my customers, the answer is no.

 

[gunslinger]

No, that's not what I'm trying to argue. What I'm pointing out is that the hassles for the average computer user using Linux stem almost entirely from that fact that it is not a mainstream, manufacture-supported OS. The "long list" of Linux problems for "mom and pop" is actually a short list:

1. "I bought a <new piece of hardware> and it doesn't work." (no Linux support from the manufacturer)
2. "I need/want to run <Windows-specific software>." (lack of Linux support from major software companies)
3. "I have Internet problems but <ISP> won't help me!" (lack of Linux support by service providers)

These are major issues, of course, but it's not really a long list. The question is, do the advantages of switching to Linux outweigh these issues? For the vast majority of my customers, the answer is no.

At the end of the day the "why" is not as important as the "is". Maybe the reason Linux does not have 90% of the market share is all because of the lack of support from everyone who makes anything for PCs. It is really a non-issue, the point is you will have no one to turn to for help with your internet, you will not be able to run popular software, and a lot of hardware is not going to work on your linux box (at least not easily). The end user does not care why, they just want it to work.


Its not a very long list but those 3 alone are some of the main reasons Linux is not popular on the end user desktop system. Those issues are huge, especially one and two. These days almost all popular software is available for Mac and PC. Also even being a computer tech I can count on one hand the number of times I have had to go searching for a hardware driver for Windows 7 this year and I've never had to for a Mac. The end user should NEVER and I repeat NEVER have to pull up the terminal.

 

[16k_zx81]

At the end of the day the "why" is not as important as the "is". Maybe the reason Linux does not have 90% of the market share is all because of the lack of support from everyone who makes anything for PCs. It is really a non-issue, the point is you will have no one to turn to for help with your internet, you will not be able to run popular software, and a lot of hardware is not going to work on your linux box (at least not easily). The end user does not care why, they just want it to work.

Yeah, exactly. Im actually surprised this thread has even reached 'debate' level. IMHO this one is pretty much a no-brainer.

 

[DocGreen]

It's not the OS. It's the apps.

Lack of Quickbooks, Photoshop, and Office is what kills Linux adoption. Why is the iPhone so popular? The apps. No one give a crap about iOS. It is the app store and 10 million apps that makes that phone sell.

^^^THIS^^^

Nobody gives a crap about the OS... whether it's a phone or a computer. They just care about what they can do and how easily they can do it. If it's too hard on a given OS, they're not going to use it.

 

[Amanda]

I was an Ubuntu user before it was cool... I'm also a photographer. The myth that you need PS for ALL editing is BS. GIMP can do everything PS can do. OpenOffice can do everything MS Office can do (save as an .rtf and you have no issue). If you have something that needs MS, use Wine.

8 years ago Comcast supported Linux... AT&T did as well. (I had both and ran Linux) I did have to be transferred to a different AT&T tech so was on hold for a bit, but support was there.

There are work arounds for those willing to learn and embrace the awesomeness that is open source. As it stands, most user could give two f*cks.

 

[16k_zx81]

GIMP can do everything PS can do. OpenOffice can do everything MS Office can do

Um ... nope and nope. Sorry, but the feature set of either program comes nowhere near the originals.

CS6

And you're seriously saying that 'average end users' are all set to go doing WINE installs?

You're aware of the *subject* of discussion, right?

1. Install Wine 1.3.35 beta through PPA.

Code:
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-wine/ppa
Code:
sudo apt-get update
Code:
sudo apt-get install wine1.3
2. Now start a new wine prefix or rename the hidden folder .wine in your Home directory (if you had Wine installed before).

From winetricks,

Choose "Select the default wineprefix" then "Install a windows DLL or component" and from there install the dotnet20 and msxml6, following the instructions.
Again from "Select the default wineprefix" choose "install a font" and select the corefonts.

From winetricks and "Select the default wineprefix" choose run "winecfg". From there go to tab "Libraries" and click on *msxml6 then "Edit" and choose "Native (windows)".

3. Run the MS Office 2010 Professional x86 installer you have.
I used an .exe file. On Wine website they used an .iso mounted (MS Office Pro Plus x86 2010). Choose to install only Word, Excell and Powerpoint.
I used a valid key and the online activation worked perfectly.

During the installation the installer was hang for a while but finally it completed the installation.

4. On winecfg as instructed above to the tab "Libraries" and from "new override for library" click the small arrow and choose to "Add" riched20 and gdiplus. Then click on both, "Edit" and as above change their override to "Native (windows)".

5. Final steps.
Open Word, Excell and Powerpoint to see if they work. Then go to each one to File-options-Trust Center->Trust Center Settings, lower the security to none in every option and uncheck the Enable Protected View options. Word and Excell are working perfectly, the only problem is with Powerpoint which is not very dependable.

source

BTW, MSOFFICE 2010 is not AFAIK on the GOLOD or Platinum lists for Wine. Someone stop me if Im wrong, but doesnt that mean there are still compatibility issues remaining?

..

 

[Amanda]

Apparently you didn't read the entirety of my post? No worries... let me clarify.

1. I am a photographer and assist many of the area photogs (a few of which are national known). GIMP can do the level of editing that they, and I, need. You just need to know how to use it right. I mainly use Lightroom, but that is simply because I now run Win7. I do use GIMP and rarely use PS.

2. At the time I used Ubuntu, I was a complete novice. I was able to install and run Wine without issue. But as I said in my previous post, most users aren't going to care to learn it...

3. Please tell me what OpenOffice can't do that MS Office can? Seriously... name it. I'm pretty sure I could prove you wrong.

4. Yes, I know what this thread is about... but thanks for being a complete jackass.

5. To reiterate, and this is a direct quote from my previous post: "There are work arounds for those willing to learn and embrace the awesomeness that is open source. As it stands, most user could give two f*cks."

6. It appears you dislike Linux... that's sad.

7. Have a nice night/morning.

 

[MobileTechie]

I've tried linux in various forms several times for my notebooks and PCs in the house and each I'm I've ended up coming back to Windows.

I find that when things go wrong, and it's mostly with hardware and drivers that it does, then finding a solution can be very painful indeed. I think every single computer I've tried it on had at least one problem with webcam, wireless, sleep/hibernation or similar. Some were solvable, some were not according to the forums I spent hours on.

And then usually a family member wants to plug a device in or try out some app they heard about and it doesn't work on linux without a load of work.

So I don't recommend it to most people on that basis.

 

[codegreen]

Yeah, exactly. Im actually surprised this thread has even reached 'debate' level. IMHO this one is pretty much a no-brainer.

Well, at least in the case of you and me, we seem to be less debating and more agreeing past each other.

 

[codegreen]

Hi Amanda. I'm a huge Linux fan. I've been running it as my every-day computing environment for more than ten years, and sysadmining servers for nearly as long.

1. I am a photographer and assist many of the area photogs (a few of which are national known). GIMP can do the level of editing that they, and I, need. You just need to know how to use it right. I mainly use Lightroom, but that is simply because I now run Win7. I do use GIMP and rarely use PS.

I'm glad the GIMP does what you need, but that's not the same as it doing everything that everyone needs. Not even the GIMP developers claim it is as functional as Photoshop.

2. At the time I used Ubuntu, I was a complete novice. I was able to install and run Wine without issue. But as I said in my previous post, most users aren't going to care to learn it...

This discussion is about end-users, though. Wine isn't an end-user solution. What works and what doesn't changes from release to release.

3. Please tell me what OpenOffice can't do that MS Office can? Seriously... name it. I'm pretty sure I could prove you wrong.

Writer doesn't have perfect compatibility with MS Word. Impress doesn't have perfect compatibility with PowerPoint. Calc has no compatibility with Excel macros. Base can't open Access databases; it can only act as a front-end to them on Windows.

It's compatibility that's the problem. I don't have to collaborate on documents with Office users, so LibreOffice works smashingly for me. But for people that need to collaborate on anything other than basic word processing documents, Open/LibreOffice introduces problems.

4. Yes, I know what this thread is about... but thanks for being a complete jackass.

I hardly think the name-calling is necessary. Since the thread is about average, not particularly computer-savy end-users using Linux, and you're talking about how great it works for you, you'll have to expect some people to assume you might be missing the point.

5. To reiterate, and this is a direct quote from my previous post: "There are work arounds for those willing to learn and embrace the awesomeness that is open source. As it stands, most user could give two f*cks."

Sure. But it's those end-users that we're talking about here.

6. It appears you dislike Linux... that's sad.

Um... why? 16k could hate Linux with the fires of a thousand suns, but that doesn't change the fact that I use it and love it. I suspect he uses Linux in certain circumstances (mostly as a repair tool), but isn't interested in it for every-day computing. Don't worry about Linux. It's tough. It can take it.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Apparently you didn't read the entirety of my post? No worries... let me clarify.

1. I am a photographer and assist many of the area photogs (a few of which are national known). GIMP can do the level of editing that they, and I, need. You just need to know how to use it right. I mainly use Lightroom, but that is simply because I now run Win7. I do use GIMP and rarely use PS.

2. At the time I used Ubuntu, I was a complete novice. I was able to install and run Wine without issue. But as I said in my previous post, most users aren't going to care to learn it...

3. Please tell me what OpenOffice can't do that MS Office can? Seriously... name it. I'm pretty sure I could prove you wrong.

4. Yes, I know what this thread is about... but thanks for being a complete jackass.

5. To reiterate, and this is a direct quote from my previous post: "There are work arounds for those willing to learn and embrace the awesomeness that is open source. As it stands, most user could give two f*cks."

6. It appears you dislike Linux... that's sad.

7. Have a nice night/morning.

The problem is you are both correct and dead wrong at the same time. Sure most of those programs are able to the work you need to do, until you need to share that work with someone else. Plenty of times I've opened a doc in Libreoffice to find the formating is incorrect. If I have a printed copy I CAN fix it and make it look exactly the same but I shouldn't have to do that. I shouldn't have to try and explain to an another user how to send files in RTF format. At least OpenOffice and it's forks can try and open MS Office files. If someone sends me an Adobe Image file I don't have any method of converting it. If you only do work by yourself you can get along with OSS programs but who does that?

 

[compnet]

Yes wine is a great work around for all the people playing diablo 3 who got their accounts banned for using it...

 

[gunslinger]

1. I am a photographer and assist many of the area photogs (a few of which are national known). GIMP can do the level of editing that they, and I, need. You just need to know how to use it right. I mainly use Lightroom, but that is simply because I now run Win7. I do use GIMP and rarely use PS.

2. At the time I used Ubuntu, I was a complete novice. I was able to install and run Wine without issue. But as I said in my previous post, most users aren't going to care to learn it...

3. Please tell me what OpenOffice can't do that MS Office can? Seriously... name it. I'm pretty sure I could prove you wrong.

4. Yes, I know what this thread is about... but thanks for being a complete jackass.

5. To reiterate, and this is a direct quote from my previous post: "There are work arounds for those willing to learn and embrace the awesomeness that is open source. As it stands, most user could give two f*cks."

6. It appears you dislike Linux... that's sad.

7. Have a nice night/morning.

1. Gimp does what you need done, but it is not a photo shop replacement. If it was all the pros would switch instead of paying $700+ for photo shop.

2. And thats we are talking about, end users.

3. As codegreen said its a compatibility issue. Most people use Office and you have to be compatible with what most people use.

4. I don't think you do know what this thread is about or you would have not made a Jackass out of yourself with some of your comments.

5. Why should the end user have to use workorounds to experience the "awesomeness"? There is nothing awesome for the end user about spending hours in the terminal or trying to part and cobble together their own software. Linux is free only if your time is worth nothing.

6. I don't dislike Linux. I love Linux Mint, peppermint OS, and Elementary OS just to name a few. But i'm not naïve enough to think its for the typical end-user.

7. You have a nice day/night also

 

[Amanda]

1. Gimp does what you need done, but it is not a photo shop replacement. If it was all the pros would switch instead of paying $700+ for photo shop.

2. And thats we are talking about, end users.

3. As codegreen said its a compatibility issue. Most people use Office and you have to be compatible with what most people use.

4. I don't think you do know what this thread is about or you would have not made a Jackass out of yourself with some of your comments.

5. Why should the end user have to use workorounds to experience the "awesomeness"? There is nothing awesome for the end user about spending hours in the terminal or trying to part and cobble together their own software. Linux is free only if your time is worth nothing.

6. I don't dislike Linux. I love Linux Mint, peppermint OS, and Elementary OS just to name a few. But i'm not naïve enough to think its for the typical end-user.

7. You have a nice day/night also

How did I make a jackass out of myself? By presenting an alternative thought? My bad.

First any photog worth their salt will have a great photo SOOC... and what needs to be correcting can be done with frickin' Photoscape. I've been in the photography world for 10 years now. While GIMP is not perfect, you can do pretty much everything that needs to be done. Photoshop is for heavy editing. If you are doing everything correct in camera, you don't need it.

Second, There are some issues with compatibility with OpenOffice and MS Office but some quick tutoring of your client is all it takes to make it work. If I can teach my 84 year old Grandpa to use OpenOffice and teach him how to handle things he received in Word, anyone can learn.

Third, please tell me where I went wrong with my posts... Again, was it simply that I provided an alternate view? Because honestly, this thread (reading from the title) is about Ubuntu and if it is ready for the average mom/pop user. My assertion is that it is ready... if you have a user that is willing to learn.

And honestly, I think the key to this whole debate is the willingness to learn something new. It's not rocket science.

But whatevs... kinda over defending an opinion that has already been defended.

 

[angry_geek]

I charge $75/hour for most of my services. Others here charge more; some less. I cannot see charging my customers even 2 hours to teach them how to use the computer. We all know 2 hours would not be sufficient to learn even Ubuntu.

Many of my customers enjoy using their computers to conduct on-line banking. Some of the banks out there require IE. Many customers use Quickbooks and do not want to screw around installing emulators just so they can install a 3-year old version of QB with most of the features available. Some of my customers enjoy picking up the $10 game discs at Wal-Mart so they can play scrabble, and/or they buy the will making or family tree software. Some of them have embroidery or sewing machines that accept patterns from the computer. I would like to see any of this done.

MS Office vs OpenOffice, LibreOffice, et-al: You can debate this til the cows come home. The simple fact is MS is so far beyond the capabilities of the others, their's no point in discussing it. I can use Access and Excel to run advanced SQL queries and generate reports. I can create outstanding presentations in Powerpoint. The list goes on, but here is one thing to chew on: MS Office is so good (even with all its flaws), so wide-spread that even Apple doesn't try to fight it. I've used just about every alternative to MS Office available, including Google Docs, and nothing comes close.

GIMP: I love it; I've been using it for years. However, when I want to get serious and do some artsy stuff or really get down and dirty with RAW files, I go for Photoshop. When I want to batch process 1,000 scanned images, I go for PS. It's the top dog for a reason. As for your SOOC reasoning, I disagree. I'm sure you're a great photographer. I'm sure your friends are great. However, claiming you're so good that you don't need any extra help with editing kind of flies in the face of your arguing so heatedly for GIMP and Linux. Seems to me, anyone that good at photography wouldn't much care. With that being said, I know many good photographers (seems like everyone is a photographer these days; just spend 10 minutes on craig s list), and, with the exception of one, they all use some kind of post processing. The one exception refuses to use digital cameras and does everything old-school, and he still does post editing on many of his shots, just not with a keyboard and mouse.

Bottom line: In my opinion, based on professional experience and observation (I tried to do this for some clients), Linux is not ready for the masses. I don't think it will ever be ready.

 

[16k_zx81]

How did I make a jackass out of myself? By presenting an alternative thought? My bad.

First any photog worth their salt will have a great photo SOOC... and what needs to be correcting can be done with frickin' Photoscape. I've been in the photography world for 10 years now. While GIMP is not perfect, you can do pretty much everything that needs to be done. Photoshop is for heavy editing. If you are doing everything correct in camera, you don't need it.

Second, There are some issues with compatibility with OpenOffice and MS Office but some quick tutoring of your client is all it takes to make it work. If I can teach my 84 year old Grandpa to use OpenOffice and teach him how to handle things he received in Word, anyone can learn.

Third, please tell me where I went wrong with my posts... Again, was it simply that I provided an alternate view? Because honestly, this thread (reading from the title) is about Ubuntu and if it is ready for the average mom/pop user. My assertion is that it is ready... if you have a user that is willing to learn.

And honestly, I think the key to this whole debate is the willingness to learn something new. It's not rocket science.

But whatevs... kinda over defending an opinion that has already been defended.

Your argument appears to be "I am a professional photographer and it worked for me, so it should work for everyone". Again, there are numerous features in photoshop that gimp cant replicate. Thats why people spend the money to buy photoshop instead of using the free alternative. Just because your needs were met doesnt mean that everyone's will be, and *again* this is a conversation about "average" "Mom and Pop" end users, not professional photographers.

On your second point, you appear to be making the case *for* but actually proving the case *against*; end-users need a professional 'assistant' to get started with Linux? That observation, by itself, answers the question posed by the thread as a resounding negative.

On your third point, no, its not about presenting an 'alternative view' - its because your initial statement was just plain incorrect.

.

 

[pctutor]

Gimp and Open Office will have a majority of the users at about the same time the US will switch entirely to the metric system.

 

[16k_zx81]

Just to round this off, I thought for ..its and giggles I would head on over to the "absolute beginners" section of the Ubuntu Forum, just to see if much had changed.

The first answered question was about 'webcams' and was provided with this link
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Webcam

The second answered question thread:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2129049&

The third was about "terminal" and yielded a link to this thread
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2015424

And, the next thread answer linked to this
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI

.. you dont have to look very far at all to see that it hasnt.

Note that this is not a 'selective reading' - its just straight from the first few threads! This is pretty much a representative sample of the Q&A from "Absolute Beginners" of the Ubuntu Forum.

This would be *the* place in the Internet for our "Mom and Pop" end-users to post their questions about their new OS. Now Im not knocking the Forum, or the Forum section, but this is still the stage Linux is at for end-users: terminal commands and config edits.

Sorry, but this just aint going to happen, not with many of the customers I know, anyway

And no, its not, as had been suggested previously, that people "arent willing to learn" - consumers/end users picked up Android and iOS mobile phones in droves when they were released. People are absolutely willing to learn if they know the device is going to work for them. The reluctance here is because Linux is not a simple learning curve. The curve is massive, and ongoing, every time a problem occurs with an app, or hardware, or the OS itself.

.