I got a request for putting in a security camera system

[HFultzjr]

Ok,
This is a 1st for me.
I have a request for putting in security cameras for a church.

This is what they need it to do.

4 cameras
Low light visibility maybe infrared
Mounted high on a ceiling, with no AC power nearby and minimal access to cameras after installed
Camera range of about 100-200 feet (I know the infrared range will be less).
Wireless (they currently have a 2.4ghz router) Might need to add an access point due to distance.
They want to be able to monitor from the office during the day and via web when away.
iPhone and android access
Recording that will overwrite when full (5 days max.)
Motion activated
Notification sent by text when activated.

Any suggestions on a good company with good tech support (questions) if needed.

Thanks,
Harold

 

[wickedmojoit]

Good Morning Harold,

We do a lot of camera installs and upgrades. If I can nail my husband down today I will get him to make some recommendations, I personally don't know much. I will offer you all I do know.

Check out Amcrest, they have quality equipment, I know my husband likes working with them. When we did our first few camera jobs he called them multiple times for support and they were awesome to work with, knowledgeable, pleasant and easy to understand. Cameras are like IT, you get what you pay for, they are not the cheapest. We have stopped installing cheap, straight from china specials and best buy over the counter. They are not worth the initial savings. You end up back on site, for bad equipment way to much.

He tries to stay away from wireless as much as possible, they are inconsistent and the quality (in picture and operation) is poor. I don't know if running wire is an option but I would look in to it.

The cameras are sensitive and the motion will go off all the time, dust particles, bugs, changes in sunlight.
The text notification is a pain. Every one thinks they want it, then their phone is blowing up all the time and you end up having to re-due the settings to take it off. Oh, and it doesn't matter how many times you tell them ahead of time that the notifications don't stop, they still want it. Once they have it, they wont understand why you cant control when the camera thinks it detects motion.

Lastly, my suggestion is find out how clear they want the picture. what are they looking to see? Do they want to see that a person walked in or do the want to read the brand tag on the back of the persons jeans.

Good luck !

 

[HFultzjr]

Thanks for the response wickedmojoit!

I'll look into Amcrest, sounds like what I'm looking for. I know about wireless not being as good as wired, but this project would be a real pain to wire. VERY high ceilings (I don't know maybe 75 + feet high). Too high for my comfort level! If I go the wired route, I would need to sub out the wiring.

They are just looking for people entering. Doesn't need to be hi-res or anything close. Just able to tell when someone enters.

Something that maybe could be set to allow motion activation on during certain time frames, such as when no activities are going on.
Or, easy to turn on/off via phone?

The text notifications would only be going to one person.

Could the sensitivity be turned down to prevent false positives. I know there would be a trade off.

Looking forward to your husband's input.

 

[Moltuae]

I know about wireless not being as good as wired, but this project would be a real pain to wire. VERY high ceilings (I don't know maybe 75 + feet high). Too high for my comfort level! If I go the wired route, I would need to sub out the wiring.

You're going to need to get a cable to the cameras one way or another, be it power or signal. Unless I missed some new technology, there's no way to go completely wireless yet ('cept maybe battery/rechargeable units). Personally, I'd go for PoE and a single CAT5e cable to each. The Ubuiqiti range provide good picture quality in both normal and low light level conditions and they're a doddle to setup using their NVR software and a suitable computer.

 

[mr m]

but this project would be a real pain to wire. VERY high ceilings (I don't know maybe 75 + feet high). Too high for my comfort level! If I go the wired route, I would need to sub out the wiring.

I had a job to install wireless access points in a warehouse with 32' ceilings. No way was I going to climb a wobbly aluminum ladder that high.

Their maintenance staff had a self-propelled platform lift which made running the Cat 5 safe and secure. If you rent one you can pocket the big money you're going to pay the sub although I've never seen a lift that would go 75'. Are you sure the ceiling is that high?

That height would scare me and I'm a pilot!

 

[FremontPC]

You might want to set up an old laptop with a webcam and something like Zone Trigger (determines direction of movement) to get a sense of the issues involved / features required. There's got to be some way to keep that camera down lower.

Maybe even a couple of infrared "electric eyes" wherein the first powers up the 2nd, but only the 2nd can sound a chime, etc. (naw, likely too many issues with that).

Do people exit via the same door?

 

[Moltuae]

A couple of thoughts on the height ...

Firstly, if it were me, I'd leave that part to an electrician. I try not to get involved in running cables and attaching things to walls; I just do the technical stuff. Apart from not wanting to do such work, in some cases there are electrical regulations that need to be adhered to, so I prefer to leave the responsibility of ensuring that's properly taken care of to a qualified sparkie.

Secondly, have you considered getting some poles to do the job?
By which I mean, long round metal ones, not eastern European workers

Using some sort of pole, you could mount the cameras, run the cables down inside the poles, then stand the poles up and screw them to the wall or floor. If the poles are long and rigid enough, you may not even need ladders. If you visit a metal fabricator, they should be able to make something suitable that you can bolt together in sections.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

A GREAT resource for learning about camera brands, reliability, performance, quality, who makes who, etc.
http://www.cctvforum.com/

Amcrest appears to be made by Foscam, based on that forum...which looks down at Foscam pretty hard.

We've been doing Ubiquiti wireless for many years, and love it, and recently picked up a bunch of Ubiquiti's cameras to play with ourselves.
I help an alarm company do a LOT of security camera installs, they use high end Bosch and Honeywell stuff....so I'm used to seeing high end cameras...and for the money, the Ubiquitis are quite good. Their viewing software (both computer, and smart phone) is excellent.

 

[Markverhyden]

You need to check your state and local regulations. May need a special security license, like here in MA, as well as maybe a LV license. Cameras obviously need power so you have two choices. A local AC port or PoE. And some cameras use LV AC and not DC. Have you discussed fixed vs PTZ?

Ubiquiti makes nice stuff but their support is not easy. Most of the systems I've seen in larger businesses are Honeywell DVR's with Bosch and other cameras. They are not low priced.

 

[HFultzjr]

You're going to need to get a cable to the cameras one way or another, be it power or signal. Unless I missed some new technology, there's no way to go completely wireless yet ('cept maybe battery/rechargeable units). Personally, I'd go for PoE and a single CAT5e cable to each. The Ubuiqiti range provide good picture quality in both normal and low light level conditions and they're a doddle to setup using their NVR software and a suitable computer.

Thanks Moltuae,

I agree, thee only way to do this with a reliable signal is via wire. Since there is no power to where the cameras are being mounted, if I run 1 line, might as well be 2, 3 or whatever.

I didn't know if there was some "new" technology out there I was not aware of.

 

[HFultzjr]

I had a job to install wireless access points in a warehouse with 32' ceilings. No way was I going to climb a wobbly aluminum ladder that high.

Their maintenance staff had a self-propelled platform lift which made running the Cat 5 safe and secure. If you rent one you can pocket the big money you're going to pay the sub although I've never seen a lift that would go 75'. Are you sure the ceiling is that high?

That height would scare me and I'm a pilot!

Yeah, that's about the height! It's inside a church with hardwoods floors, so I don't think a lift would be suitable.

Thanks.

 

[HFultzjr]

You might want to set up an old laptop with a webcam and something like Zone Trigger (determines direction of movement) to get a sense of the issues involved / features required. There's got to be some way to keep that camera down lower.

Maybe even a couple of infrared "electric eyes" wherein the first powers up the 2nd, but only the 2nd can sound a chime, etc. (naw, likely too many issues with that).

Do people exit via the same door?

Yes,
People enter and exit the same 3 doors. It is a church with main entrance (requires 2 cameras) and 2 side doors (1 camera each). The 2 side doors are about 75+ feet across from each other. Maybe above each door, pointing towards the opposite door? It's a BIG room. May end up with more than 4 total cameras.

Thanks.

 

[FremontPC]

I agree, thee only way to do this with a reliable signal is via wire. Since there is no power to where the cameras are being mounted, if I run 1 line, might as well be 2, 3 or whatever.

You could use PoE and do it with one Cat5 cable per camera. It might be worth experimenting with Zone Trigger to see if you use directional flow to filter out those that are leaving. Doesn't sound like you need a high quality image, but being able to handle changing light levels without washing out might be important.

 

[HFultzjr]

A couple of thoughts on the height ...

Firstly, if it were me, I'd leave that part to an electrician. I try not to get involved in running cables and attaching things to walls; I just do the technical stuff. Apart from not wanting to do such work, in some cases there are electrical regulations that need to be adhered to, so I prefer to leave the responsibility of ensuring that's properly taken care of to a qualified sparkie.

Secondly, have you considered getting some poles to do the job?
By which I mean, long round metal ones, not eastern European workers

Using some sort of pole, you could mount the cameras, run the cables down inside the poles, then stand the poles up and screw them to the wall or floor. If the poles are long and rigid enough, you may not even need ladders. If you visit a metal fabricator, they should be able to make something suitable that you can bolt together in sections.

Agreed. The electrical work will be out of my league. That along with the cabling will be subbed out. I plan on doing the "technical" stuff.

 

[HFultzjr]

A GREAT resource for learning about camera brands, reliability, performance, quality, who makes who, etc.
http://www.cctvforum.com/

Amcrest appears to be made by Foscam, based on that forum...which looks down at Foscam pretty hard.

We've been doing Ubiquiti wireless for many years, and love it, and recently picked up a bunch of Ubiquiti's cameras to play with ourselves.
I help an alarm company do a LOT of security camera installs, they use high end Bosch and Honeywell stuff....so I'm used to seeing high end cameras...and for the money, the Ubiquitis are quite good. Their viewing software (both computer, and smart phone) is excellent.

Thanks for the forum link. LOTS of info to go over.

I'll check out Ubiquiti. I know their wireless is top notch. I didn't know about their cameras. How are their cameras working out and which one are you trying?

Thanks

 

[HFultzjr]

You need to check your state and local regulations. May need a special security license, like here in MA, as well as maybe a LV license. Cameras obviously need power so you have two choices. A local AC port or PoE. And some cameras use LV AC and not DC. Have you discussed fixed vs PTZ?

Ubiquiti makes nice stuff but their support is not easy. Most of the systems I've seen in larger businesses are Honeywell DVR's with Bosch and other cameras. They are not low priced.

Thanks Mark,
I'll check the regs regarding the security cameras and let the wiring/cabling be done by a licensed electrician.

I don't understand fixed vs. PTZ. What is PTZ? I'll "google it", but your input appreciated.

After a quick "google" I'll probably be looking at 4 "fixed" cameras.

 

[HFultzjr]

Thanks everyone!

Lots of good info for me to pour over. Any other thoughts appreciated.

 

[Markverhyden]

Thanks Mark,
I'll check the regs regarding the security cameras and let the wiring/cabling be done by a licensed electrician.

I don't understand fixed vs. PTZ. What is PTZ? I'll "google it", but your input appreciated.

After a quick "google" I'll probably be looking at 4 "fixed" cameras.

Pan-Tilt-Zoom. But it's really only good for when you have someone that can do live monitoring, such as moving the camera around to monitor a particular vehicle/person.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

PTZ is used for, as Mark mentioned above, "live monitoring"...like in stores where there is a security department watching for shoplifters, or in casinos where they follow suspect people around the floor, stuff like that.

In traditional "recording" security camera setups, PTZ isn't used.....as there's nobody watching in real time. You're always going back to the DVR/NVR "after the fact"....to try to find something. So you setup fixed cameras that are optimally placed. Think about the scenarios you'll want to capture, and place cameras optimally.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

[QUOTE="HFultzjr, post: 500585, member: 14659"

I'll check out Ubiquiti. I know their wireless is top notch. I didn't know about their cameras. How are their cameras working out and which one are you trying?

Thanks[/QUOTE]

We bought 1x Pro, 1x standard, a couple of domes, and one of the minis.