[SOLVED] Help with CMOS issue

[HFultzjr]

Ok, so I've been working on this one for a while (friend).

Here is how the computer came in:

Acer Desktop (don't have the model number in front of me)
4 GB Ram
AMD Quad-Core
750 GB WD Blue Drive
CD/DVD Writer
Multiple card reader
Win 7 fully updated and patched
Random BSOD (mostly video driver issues)...I think I've got these resolved.

Update Video drivers and removed minor adware/junkware.

Hard drive and other hardware including Ram tested ok, except the voltage on the CMOS battery was only 2.4 volts.

Replaced CMOS battery and now I'm stuck with this.:

The main issue is CMOS will not store any changes from defaults.
Computer boots, runs hardware check and stops at:
CMOS checksum error or CMOS battery loss occurs.
Press F1 to continue or Esc to enter BIOS.

I enter BIOS and the Date/Time is only thing I need changed.
Change Date/Time....save....reboot......same thing.

If I hit F1 it loads normal, except Date/Time is wrong.

I just can't seem to get the settings changed from the defaults.

Here is what I've tried:
New battery....several
Checked battery voltage.....3.2 volts
Cleaned battery contacts
Left battery out overnight to reset
Reset by switching the jumper
Tried without battery
Flashed BIOS (no upgrade was available) (successful)
Checked for bulging caps or other issues on board.
Checked, removed, replaced and ran memtest (16 hours) on Ram
Removed everything from board except, ram, keyboard and mouse, monitor....same issue
Noted that I get no beeps when RAM or other hardware removed
Replaced power supply with known good one.

Computer still boots to F1 or Esc. Reset bios time....same thing

It seems the CMOS will not retain any settings, but always goes back to the default.

Computer runs normal after booting windows and changing the time each time it starts. Ran for 2 days with no issues or BSOD.....nothing, until I shutdown and re-start. Then same issue all over again

One other issue. Sometimes I need to restart several times, to get to the message. Computer starts, fans spin, but it goes no further. Restart several times until I get to the F1 or Esc. message.

If computer is "restarted" no issues with Date/Time in windows. It is only when a complete shutdown is done, that issue pops up.

Restart numerous times.... no issue....only when completely shutdown and then restarted.

I'm sure I've missed some things I've tried (Googled my head out).

What am I missing....changed the battery and this happens. Battery change took less than a minute.

Does same thing with old battery also.

I know this is a lot to read through, but I can only come up with the board is now bad.....did I cause this?

The way I have this now is:
Computer boots to F1 or Esc.
Press F1
Windows boots
I have a start/run entry to auto run an internet time synch program
Wait about 30 seconds, time synchs, everything is fine until next shutdown.

Thanks for listening,
Harold

 

[4ycr]

Are you able to measure the voltage from the battery on the board? Maybe a solder joint needs reflowed?

 

[HFultzjr]

Are you able to measure the voltage from the battery on the board? Maybe a solder joint needs reflowed?

I'm not real good with a multimeter, but I can give it a try.

My other thought was a bad battery holder.

Thanks!

 

[katz]

Is the CMOS jumper on the correct pins? I don't know what the symptom would be if they were on the reset position, but I might look at that. Otherwise, it does sound like it could be losing voltage as 4ycr is suggesting.

Or worst case scenario, flaky BIOS/motherboard. I see you already re-flashed the BIOS...

 

[HFultzjr]

Is the CMOS jumper on the correct pins? I don't know what the symptom would be if they were on the reset position, but I might look at that. Otherwise, it does sound like it could be losing voltage as 4ycr is suggesting.

Or worst case scenario, flaky BIOS/motherboard. I see you already re-flashed the BIOS...

Yes, CMOS jumpers are on the correct pins. I had moved them to clear the CMOS, then placed them back on their correct position.

I have yet to check the voltage at the board, might be a couple of days.

I've got some paying work that needs done 1st and computer needs to come back to the shop for checking the voltage.

Thanks for the input.

 

[NETWizz]

Ok, so I've been working on this one for a while (friend).

Here is how the computer came in:

Acer Desktop (don't have the model number in front of me)
4 GB Ram
AMD Quad-Core
750 GB WD Blue Drive
CD/DVD Writer
Multiple card reader
Win 7 fully updated and patched
Random BSOD (mostly video driver issues)...I think I've got these resolved.

Update Video drivers and removed minor adware/junkware.

Hard drive and other hardware including Ram tested ok, except the voltage on the CMOS battery was only 2.4 volts.

Replaced CMOS battery and now I'm stuck with this.:

The main issue is CMOS will not store any changes from defaults.
Computer boots, runs hardware check and stops at:
CMOS checksum error or CMOS battery loss occurs.
Press F1 to continue or Esc to enter BIOS.

I enter BIOS and the Date/Time is only thing I need changed.
Change Date/Time....save....reboot......same thing.

If I hit F1 it loads normal, except Date/Time is wrong.

I just can't seem to get the settings changed from the defaults.

Here is what I've tried:
New battery....several
Checked battery voltage.....3.2 volts
Cleaned battery contacts
Left battery out overnight to reset
Reset by switching the jumper
Tried without battery
Flashed BIOS (no upgrade was available) (successful)
Checked for bulging caps or other issues on board.
Checked, removed, replaced and ran memtest (16 hours) on Ram
Removed everything from board except, ram, keyboard and mouse, monitor....same issue
Noted that I get no beeps when RAM or other hardware removed
Replaced power supply with known good one.

Computer still boots to F1 or Esc. Reset bios time....same thing

It seems the CMOS will not retain any settings, but always goes back to the default.

Computer runs normal after booting windows and changing the time each time it starts. Ran for 2 days with no issues or BSOD.....nothing, until I shutdown and re-start. Then same issue all over again

One other issue. Sometimes I need to restart several times, to get to the message. Computer starts, fans spin, but it goes no further. Restart several times until I get to the F1 or Esc. message.

If computer is "restarted" no issues with Date/Time in windows. It is only when a complete shutdown is done, that issue pops up.

Restart numerous times.... no issue....only when completely shutdown and then restarted.

I'm sure I've missed some things I've tried (Googled my head out).

What am I missing....changed the battery and this happens. Battery change took less than a minute.

Does same thing with old battery also.

I know this is a lot to read through, but I can only come up with the board is now bad.....did I cause this?

The way I have this now is:
Computer boots to F1 or Esc.
Press F1
Windows boots
I have a start/run entry to auto run an internet time synch program
Wait about 30 seconds, time synchs, everything is fine until next shutdown.

Thanks for listening,
Harold

Sometimes bad things happen that out out of our control... I think this is one of those freak moments.

While it is NOT your fault (i.e. no negligence); unfortunately, it still happened in your care.

You did ALL of the correct troubleshooting steps (and then some) - you went above and beyond, in my opinion... I would NOT have done half of what you did to troubleshoot a battery (certainly not the RAM & PSU swap).


Although, you were doing the customer a favor replacing the bad battery, I feel compelled to ask, "was it broken (complaining about the CMOS battery) before you fixed it?"


Regardless, I am afraid my diagnosis for that system is the same as yours... you know (and fear the truth) Bad Motherboard.

How I would handle it:
If it was complaining about the Date/Time when you got it, then it was already broken! I would bill the customer accordingly for a replacement motherboard.

If, however, it was properly storing the date/time when you got it (i.e. no CMOS errors), I would personally eat the cost of that motherboard. With any luck, it will be like $60 -$80 and take a mere 15 minutes to swap out. It WILL certainly take less time to swap the motherboard than it did to do all that troubleshooting.

Hopefully, the customer is paying more than than the cost of a new motherboard, so you can at least break-even or have minimal losses.

 

[NETWizz]

A few years ago, I had a similar situation.

A co-worker brought me a personal laptop that had an intermittent problem with the network adapter.

Well, in reading abut this laptop I found one possible fix was to flash the BIOS, so I did that... it hung while flashing!

I waited and waited... Let it sit for hours. Tried alternating to unplug/re-connect the power adapter & battery, etc. FROZEN

Eventually, I hard rebooted it. It didn't POST. Looked online... NO BIOS recovery procedures.

Contacted Spare Parts to get a replacement board and they were on back-order for three weeks, so I went to eBay. Got a replacement board, which I received with dried coffee stains.

Sent it back and con-currently ended up ordering the lower-half of that laptop on eBay for about $300.

I explained the situation and returned to the customer essentially the same laptop only different serial number (with all her stuff) and fixed! I DID have to move the palm-rest because the eBay one was all stained with hand lotion or something.

Point is... Stuff happens! Sometimes you just have to do what's right. I charged only $60 to fix that laptop (same price I originally quoted), but it cost me $300, so I lost $240... but I did the right thing.

 

[HFultzjr]

Hi Netwizz,

Believe me, I know what you mean.

Computer came in with BSOD issues updated video drivers fixed that.

No CMOS date/time issues.

One of the programs I use to test components showed low CMOS voltage.

So I take it out and check it........2.4 volts.

No problem, replace it with a good one @ 3.2 volts

I thought the 2.4 volts may have had something to do with the BSOD.

Simple battery swap!

Only thing I can think of is the battery contacts were "weak" and just my moving a new battery in place of the old one did it in.

I still have to check the battery voltage at the board and see if it's good.

Yes, I've spent much more time on this than I should have. I JUST HATE when simple things go bad. And my OCD kicks in......LOL.

As this is for a very close friend, I'm not worried too much. Anybody else, that board would have been replaced long ago.

This is not the first time "weird $hit" has happened. LOL

Live and learn.

Thanks

 

[katz]

Is it possible the CMOS battery is installed backwards?

 

[NETWizz]

Is it possible the CMOS battery is installed backwards?

I doubt he's that crazy... If he can read the label it's right.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Is it possible the CMOS battery is installed backwards?

I doubt he's that crazy... If he can read the label it's right.

THe last set of batteries I purchased had labels you had to peel off of them. I could see someone not noticing if they just pulled it out of the package and slapped it in the holder.

 

[HFultzjr]

Is it possible the CMOS battery is installed backwards?

Checked and re-checked....one of the first things I thought of.

Thanks.

 

[HFultzjr]

THe last set of batteries I purchased had labels you had to peel off of them. I could see someone not noticing if they just pulled it out of the package and slapped it in the holder.

Batteries are ok, even different brands.

Check out at 3.2 volts.

Thanks.

 

[HFultzjr]

Update.

Ok, this one won't be coming back in for a while. Customer needs it for his business.

He is OK with the way it is working and glad to have the BSOD gone.

Hope to get it back in the future to do some more checking.

I'll update if it comes back in.

Thanks everyone for your input!

 

[alex32165]

Would it even work if it's installed backwards? Those batteries are only conductive on one side.