Gun control / Anti gun control

gunslinger said:
I did see that one. Kinda strange to say the least. But hey, people were getting calls days in advance telling them to stay out of new york before 911. I guess some people are just good like that. :rolleyes:
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Yeah, it's interesting isn't it how 9/11 has so many strange, unanswered questions. Things like bomb drills, all the Air Force planes being away from the world's most protected airspace, eye witness stories that it was a demolition, an insurance policy taken out by the building's owner days before it happened... :D

Important people told to not come into work at the WTC the day it happened...

How about ALL the surveillance tapes of the Pentagon that ended up missing. Turns out they were ALL contracted through some company and every gas station's tapes were being changed at the same time... Coincidence???

How about that being the only air crash without remains of a jet? How about the pentagon not having anything really burned, yet the WTC towers experienced a fire hot enough to melt steel! :eek: No fuel and hazardous waste cleanup... Hole in Pentagon smaller than the jet aircraft... This would be like shooting a piece of Dry Wall with .45 ACP and getting a hole that is only .17 HMR size... I am no ballistics expert, but know that wouldn't happen...


^^^^ Then you have Watergate, Fast and Furious, the JFK Shooting, etc.

At my outdoor shooting range, I met a man who served with Lee Harvey Oswald, the JFK shooter. He said Lee was NOT a marksman and quite frankly sucked with a gun in the armed forces... He doesn't believe Mr. Oswald had the ability to pull off the shot he allegedly did on a still target let alone a moving target.


Now let's look at Sandy Hook:

1. They could not decide if Adam's mother worked at the school as a Kindergarten teacher or not... the story kept changing about this detail, which should be trivial... Honestly, I don't even care if his mother worked there or not, it is such a minor detail, yet our news can't even get that right!

2. There were two handguns... later there were four handguns.

3. He used an assault rifle, yet later they pulled one out of his car at night, but how could that be when he killed himself... Did he walk it back to his car and put it in his trunk dead?

4. The gun they police took out of the trunk was being cleared like a shotgun. i.e. They were pumping it multiple times... An AR-15 you would drop the mag and pull the charging handle to clear it.

5. One of the children was NOT in any class photo, but later apparently turned up in a photo with the Obamas... Or this is completely faked by conspiracy theorists! I am sure glad she wasn't a victim, but why would someone pick a random child and say they were killed... talk about extortion of a child.

6. The children who were interviewed were obviously coached what to say... One kid could apparently say to the news the gunshots didn't sound like the police gunshots... Hum... so a Police Officer's Glock XX sounds different than a bad guy's Glock XX? Point is it is the last thing a kid would likely say...

7. The staff member (hero) that died joined facebook several days before the incident... Just a coincidence or not? I don't' know!

8. One of the children joined a couple days before and somehow someone accidentally posted BEFORE the event took place... or this is a lie to say this event is staged...

9. One of the parents giving an interview was smiling and joking around seconds before he realized the camera was running.

10. The parents aren't allowed to see the dead bodies of their children... Maybe because their kids are alive and well??? <== I hope this is the reason why, but if it is... there is something sinister going on and these kids were kidnapped!

^^^^ Point is, I don't know what the truth is and what it is not anymore. I don't believe the media and don't trust the Government 1) I know something happened. 2) I know you could never get a whole town to go along with a hoax. 3) I don't want to say "it didn't happen especially to any family going through tough times as that is just WRONG and INSENSITIVE..."


I just want it to stop! It sure seems like the bad guys keep winning be it the shooters or politicans!
 
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What it comes down to is this I think. Weak minded people will believe what ever the Gov tells them is truth. Sheep are scared of anyone who may be able to defend themselves because in their screwed up perception if they have that ability they must be "bad guys". If you are anti-gun that also means you are anti-self defense and anti-any other freedoms you currently enjoy.
 
seedubya said:
Wow, that's SO funny...because obviously if he's in San Fran (even though he's not) he MUST be a transexual or SOMETHING!!! Not homophobic in the least....
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I don't see how any accidental shooting of one's body parts is "SO funny..." That said, I also don't see that "the man carrying a .38 caliber handgun in his pocket when it went of" <== Yeah right... it just went off. :rolleyes:

Guns have a tendency to do that when the news gets reported.
 
The below is a copy/paste from a quote that is making its rounds all around the internet. Dunno if it's a true quote from the quoted source...but what it states rings true in my mind. It's a long read....but worth it, especially the last line...
**************************
"The Gun Is Civilization"

by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two means to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you must either convince me by reason or force me to do your bidding under threat of harm. Every human interaction, without exception, falls into one of these two categories. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people would exclusively interact through reason as force has no place as valid social interaction. But the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as that may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a means to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a lone guy on equal footing with a carload of drunken guys with baseball bats. The gun removes all disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun also to be the source of "bad force." These people think we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because they believe a firearm only makes it easier for an armed mugger to do his job. That, of course, is true only if the mugger's potential victims are disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat. The argument has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of firearms are asking only for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can make a successful living only in a society where the state has granted him a monopoly of force.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would result only in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party that inflicts overwhelming injury on the loser.



People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones do not constitute lethal force, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced by another, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

It removes force from the social equation... and that's why carrying a gun is both a civilized and a civilizing act.

So, the most civil societies are those where all citizens are equally armed and can be persuaded only through reason, never by force.
 
I am going to quote a member of our speedguide forums, as we have a similar thread going on over in those forums....

"Our mental health experts are misguided and don't have workable technology to handle society's problems. They cannot see actual causes and focus solely upon incorrect targets, e.g. if a kid throws a ball at a window and it breaks the glass, they would claim that the ball broke the glass, and upon advising our legislators we would see a new law that regulates types of balls that can be sold at Wall Mart."
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
I am going to quote a member of our speedguide forums, as we have a similar thread going on over in those forums....

"Our mental health experts are misguided and don't have workable technology to handle society's problems. They cannot see actual causes and focus solely upon incorrect targets, e.g. if a kid throws a ball at a window and it breaks the glass, they would claim that the ball broke the glass, and upon advising our legislators we would see a new law that regulates types of balls that can be sold at Wall Mart."
Click to expand...

Exactly the same logic used by the ignorant in the gun control debate.
 
What if the second amendment said:

"A well educated Electorate, being necessary to self-governance in a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed."

Would any of you liberals argue that only registered voters have a right to read?

--Credit to Lund and Freedman


************************

I bought this beauty on the 26th. It is made by Bushmaster and chambered for 5.56 NATO/.223...

attachment.php


I ALSO acquired 2 Magpul P-Mags, and an EOTech Red Dot Optic (For Law Enforcement/Military Use), AND 200 rounds of PMC ammo, which was tough being the gun store has a limit of 2 boxes of 20 per customer...; since, they are all sold out and have virtually no supply.


It has all these "Evil" Features (as we are told):
Adjustable Stock (Oh, no... I might be able to adjust it to be comfortable for my Girl Friend to shoot)
Pistol Grip (BAD... BAD Military feature... supposedly this would allow someone to shoot from their hip and not be able to aim at anything - sounds retarded)
High-Capacity 30 Round Magazines (Because anything larger than 10 isn't needed to hunt deer, right? :D)
Bayonet Lug (Oh, no! A knife on a gun might be dangerous!)
Barrel Shroud (Wouldn't want to build a firearm that doesn't burn the shooter's hand)
Threaded Barrel (I could attach something like a suppressor to save my hearing... wouldn't want that)
Flash Hider factory installed on Threaded Barrel (Keeps barrel float down on recoil AND prevents flash from causing night blindness... wouldn't want to be able to see where I aim at night).


It has metal Contraction and rails to mount things, so it is like a man's Barbie Doll!



Anyway, I am grinning ear to ear:D
It was almost a miracle to be able to get this firearm; especially, at the price I got it for! I contacted my favorite gun shop and got this one girl whom I have befriended and helped get into online teaching... Asked if they had any AR-15's. She responded that they got only ONE in from their HQ shop to which I said, "I KNOW you probably cannot hold it, but you KNOW I am good for the background andd $$$. I can get in the car right now and pick it up I am 1 hour away... OR I can read you a credit card # over the phone." She held it for me. :)

I paid $1200 for the ordinarily $900 firearm, which sucks BUT got the two mags and a $400 optic thrown in. They told me there is no run on optics because nobody has any money to buy anything except for every gun and ALL the ammo they have... hence, there was no wallet sting at all! They told me int he past 6 weeks they have made as much money as they have in the past three years, AND that they were doing very well financially even before the demand/supply problem.


I find similar weapons selling for $2000 with inferior optics on ArmsList! Already worth $600 more than I paid for it, but it isn't for sale to anyone. :eek:


I was willing to pay about $1800 for it, but ended up out the door for $1400. I am going to buy a safe with the $400 I didn't spend and bolt it down into concrete with an impact wrench and some lag bolts. Right now I ran 2 Bike Locks through the stock, lower, and upper then locked it to a 2" copper pipe... AND I temporarily deactivated it by removing the firing pin from the bolt carrier assembly... it cannot strike primers; hence, it can't fire live rounds. If someone breaks in, they will have to come back with tools (or spend hours ransacking the place to find something to cut it free with... or they would have to destroy it.) Should they succeed in stealing it, the first crime they commit will be their last when it goes "Click" instead of "Bang."
 

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"A well educated Electorate, being necessary to self-governance in a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed."
Click to expand...

I am sorry but this only applied to hemp paper books written with a feather pen and bound in real leather, not the mass produced books of today.

On a second note, I love your rifle. Wish I had the money for an EOTech right now but I haven't finished my build.

I have Magpul furniture:

BAD lever
MOE+ Pistol grip
MOE Buttstock
Broomhandle on the way

My upper parts should be here by Wednesday and I will need a quad rail, BCG and BMCGunfighter charging handle.
 
For the first time ever....I saw evidence that someone in the gov't has a brain.

Read some of my prior replies in this thread...and other threads on the subject...basically sums up to how people secure their weapons (or not) at home. Common sense folks...common sense!!!

I stand up and applaud Senator Frantz for his efforts here.

Senator Scott Frantz (R) proposes his "Nancy Lanza Law"
http://m.newstimes.com/danbury/db_1...?contentguid=TkAabFaI&detailindex=1&pn=0&ps=4
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
For the first time ever....I saw evidence that someone in the gov't has a brain.

Read some of my prior replies in this thread...and other threads on the subject...basically sums up to how people secure their weapons (or not) at home. Common sense folks...common sense!!!

I stand up and applaud Senator Frantz for his efforts here.

Senator Scott Frantz (R) proposes his "Nancy Lanza Law"
http://m.newstimes.com/danbury/db_1...?contentguid=TkAabFaI&detailindex=1&pn=0&ps=4
Click to expand...


Thanks; I think. I don't work with too many other people in Gov who have any common sense though.


I don't have any children or wife, and I live in a nice neighborhood, but IF a criminal comes into my place I don't want to arm him. The only problem I have right now is ammo, tools, oils, shooting glasses, ear protection, etc. Laying all over the place, so it is OBVIOUS to anyone who breaks in there are certainly guns around.


I REALLY still need to find an area to hide my Sig Sauer 1911 better until I get the safe. I think I might just take pit above the pantry door out of site or something. The biggest problem I have now is that one is under a the covers in my bed, which may be a place a thief would look; I don't know.
 
NETWizz said:
Thanks; I think. I don't work with too many other people in Gov who have any common sense though.
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I posted that as a right to bear arms supporter, gun owner....I want to be able to continue to have the right to use my S&W SD40 VE to protect my home under the Castle Doctrine.

I do however, raise an eyebrow towards the parents that don't safely secure their weapons when there are kids in the house, or whack job people in the house. The name of the bill being proposed above...the "Nancy Lanza Law"....she was the mother of the whack job Adam Lanza that shot up the Sandy Hook School. He had a long history of mental issues. Nancy..his mom, apparently was a "gun collector". The 3 guns he brought to the school to use...were hers, he took them from her. She apparently did not secure them safely. To me...situations like that are an accident/tragedy waiting to happen.

I have a 9 year old daughter in my house..think she even knows about mine? Think she will know where it is? Think she will know how to unlock it? NOPE!

Too many other tragedies happen in homes were curious kids find a gun...and fooling around..."BLAM". Whoops! Shouldn't have happened if the parents of that house used common sense and thought about the safety of the most important thing in their house first (their children).

I'm not talking about you...you live by yourself..having guns around in the open your apartment is your right and IMO (without knowing more about daily traffic through your household)...probably safe. Long as you lock your house.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
I posted that as a right to bear arms supporter, gun owner....I want to be able to continue to have the right to use my S&W SD40 VE to protect my home under the Castle Doctrine.

I do however, raise an eyebrow towards the parents that don't safely secure their weapons when there are kids in the house, or whack job people in the house. The name of the bill being proposed above...the "Nancy Lanza Law"....she was the mother of the whack job Adam Lanza that shot up the Sandy Hook School. He had a long history of mental issues. Nancy..his mom, apparently was a "gun collector". The 3 guns he brought to the school to use...were hers, he took them from her. She apparently did not secure them safely. To me...situations like that are an accident/tragedy waiting to happen.

I have a 9 year old daughter in my house..think she even knows about mine? Think she will know where it is? Think she will know how to unlock it? NOPE!

Too many other tragedies happen in homes were curious kids find a gun...and fooling around..."BLAM". Whoops! Shouldn't have happened if the parents of that house used common sense and thought about the safety of the most important thing in their house first (their children).

I'm not talking about you...you live by yourself..having guns around in the open your apartment is your right and IMO (without knowing more about daily traffic through your household)...probably safe. Long as you lock your house.
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Yeah; exactly.


Where I think you might be going wrong is not talking about gun safety with your daughter. If she is EVER at a friends house for example and encounters a gun, she needs to know that she is NOT to touch it and NOT to let anybody else touch it. She should call Dad/Mom and leave because you CANNOT trust a random adult with a gun especially when they are irresponsible and leave them around children.


I was at a friend's house and he showed me his two guns neither of which were locked up. One was in a night stand and one in a closet up high. He has two children one of which is a 9 year old girl. As he was showing me the first one she grabbed a chair and grabbed the second one that is "out of reach" then started handling a .357 magnum revolver. He chewed her out for it told her to "never handle daddy's guns," but that's not good enough because HE is irresponsible... The hardest thing I did all night that I was there was keep my mouth shut. it is not my place to judge other people, but I am NOT happy that he didn't change anything after his 9 year old grabbed a gun... She seemed to think it would be okay to be like daddy only daddy is safe at handing firearms... just not smart with them around children.

What if they have a babysitter or in-laws over and aren't home and she plays with a gun? Something bad can happen if ammunition is lying around, which it probably is.

I put ALL my guns away before guests come over. If I am going to show a guest a particular arm, I take it out before they get to my place.

I don't tell anyone my hiding places not even friends... I do NOT have guests over when I am not home. Literally, some are hidden so good if I die the next person to get the apt can stay there for 5 years and wont' find them.

To the best of my knowledge most of my friends are upstanding people. One for example I gave a keyboard too and she asked me like 3 or 4 times if she could pay me for it. NOPE <== You are one of the few people that try NOT to take advantage of me, so it's my pleasure.

Similarly, I was picking up dinner for some of my friends because I was at a restaurant. They tried to pay me for which I refused. As I left they tried again even so much as putting it on top of my shoulder, so I had to either grab it or let it fall on the ground... I let it fall on the ground and kept walking then drove off knowing that is the ONLY way I could refuse. This means A) My friends can be trusted around money that is left out, which means they can be trusted to not steal valuables!
 
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NETWizz said:
Where I think you might be going wrong is not talking about gun safety with your daughter. If she is EVER at a friends house for example and encounters a gun, she needs to know that she is NOT to touch it and NOT to let anybody else touch it. She should call Dad/Mom and leave because you CANNOT trust a random adult with a gun especially when they are irresponsible and leave them around children.
Click to expand...

Yeah I struggle with that. She's my step daughter...so I don't have that much liberty of doing what I want.

While I was already shooting probably by age 8 with my dad....these days, IMO, children are so much more naive and don't mature as fast. So while she is 9...sometimes I think her mentality is 6 (along with most kids these days). Soon...yes. But her mom doesn't let her go far..like over other peoples houses where there might be a gun around. Only closely supervised when friend visits happen.

She'll be at the point soon where I think she's ready to start learning to respect it. I have to approach that cautiously..my wife grew up in a crime based family...sorta "mob-like". hard core local mafia-like with guns and lots of violence...even toward the kids. So she has a hatred of them, and does not want her kids exposed to them. It's a fine line I have to work with.
 
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