Gun control / Anti gun control

I think gun owners should be listed on a website and made unable to live near schools/parks.

The ignorance astounds me.

Do you work for that newspaper that outed gun owners on a map like pedophiles? Those same people who now have armed security guarding their homes because someone retaliated by posting THEIR info online. Then a group went to each of their doors to see if they would put a sign in their front yard stating they were "Proudly gun free". I love this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1Zy_ASNyA&feature=player_embedded
 
YeOldeStonecat,

You're making me hungry! I bagged a 10pt. this year also.

Oooops....I got off topic.

Don't want to get THAT thread going.

Back to the topic at hand.

3 of us at the office just had bowls of it for lunch. Had our office manager going "Ewwww....poor bambi"....cuz she doesn't like venison. :D
 
I think gun owners should be listed on a website and made unable to live near schools/parks.
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Martyn said:
Surely this is a joke?


Sadly I think is serious. :rolleyes:
 
...made one that survived shooting a few rounds. I'm sure with more and more attempts and redesign, one that will work well will be made (if not already...one can be assured many criminals are already working on this at a feverish pace).

And that is precisely why I was talking about the necessity of reducing the sheer volume of ammo floating around. Ammo is a lot harder to make (just ask Palestine). This is probably even more important than reducing the number of high-powered weapons themselves.

That said, this is pretty much what I expected to happen. There are always going to be people whose first thought is "hmmmm, how can I make a weapon out of this?" Not, "how can I help others with this" or "how can this be used to improve my community," but "OH DAMN I GOTTA MAKE A KILLING WEAPON WITH THIS! NOW!"

The degree of ignorance is absolutely amazing. Especially when coming from otherwise "intelligent people"

Its is stupid to the Point of being hilarious.
This is what we are dealing with here...lol

The more this goes on the less respect I have for certain members.

You said that in the beginning...and yet you're still here. Also? That goes both ways.

Its sad that people can be so smart in some things and complete idiots in others. And before we get the fence riders in here, yes, there is a right and wrong here and its not a matter of opinion.

I think I've kept my comments pretty respectful for the most part. But a lot of you guys just can't seem to do that, with the exception of YeOldeStonecat. Even though I don't agree with him, he managed to keep it civil and make his points without being nasty or coming off like a bitter troll. The rest of you should take a lesson.
 
I helped my neighbour out in picking up a new gun for self protection. Its pretty cool. Its a 38 revolver with laser sighting. She is really happy with it and is learning gun safety and target practice with it.

As for outlawing or restricting ammunition - well, People will just make their own then. Outlawing guns does not stop killings.

For a bit of humor on the subject see this thread. Made me laugh!

http://www.snotr.com/video/9974/Son
 
When it comes to gun control you have two types of people. The ones who are controlled by the right wing media and wish to remain ignorant of actual logic or facts and the ones who actually control the media and know full well the ultimate goal is justification of arming of the citizenry so they can go into foreign lands for oil and murder hundreds of thousands of civilians.

If you have a single gun in your house, you can say your are protecting your family. If you feel the need to stockpile weapons, you are preparing to kill people; you just haven't decided who yet.


This is just about the most ignorant thing I have recently read. The media right or left controls nobody, BUT most people fall on one side of the political spectrum or the other... The right-wing media (the few of them) aren't ignorant of actual logic; in fact, they are the ones not in fantasy land thinking everything is okay unlike the left-wing media.

The ultimate goal isn't the justification of arming citizenry... We are already armed, and they know that! It is the preservation of ALL rights... Take away the 2nd amendment and ALL the other rights you and I enjoy crumble away, too. Sure, the left will probably shut-up and let you still have your first-amendment right if they "agree" with what you are saying... but that isn't freedom of speech... It is getting worse everyday! Heck, in some places like Arizona there were recently "Free-Speech Zones" to which I must ask, What the f**ck is a "Free-Speech Zone???" <== This is the kind of **** we have to deal with in this country because so many people are willing to piss away our rights that people died to protect.


Also, I don't think anyone arming Americans is doing it to go into foreign lands to kill for oil! At least if they are it isn't the guns we are buying in gun shops that will be used for this purpose.
 
Yup, wave your supposed "Bill of Rights" like a flag. Salute it. You can hide behind a fear of government if you want but there is no rationale for stockpiling weapons other than the eventual murder of others. Your own government made that "Bill" so that you'd all think guns are cool and they have brainwashed you successfully. So well that you don't object to the slaughter of Iraqis or Vietnamese or training Bin Laden and his guys. Yay guns! Mission accomplished.

Now, if I have you pegged and I think I do, you will go all whargarble about guns and rights and freedom and 2nd Amendment and OH!OH!OH!, about that point, need to wipe up your desk and light a cigarette.

They are actually God Given rights merely enumerated in the Constitution. i.e. The right to protection. Also the constitution is the supreme law of the land... says so in Article 6. In fact, it goes so far as to say any unconstitutional law isn't law at all.

There IS plenty of rationale for stockpiling weapons... just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

People own weapons for the following reasons:
1. Protection
2. Hunting
3. Sport (i.e. Target practice, training, and proficiency.)


Our Government didn't make a Bill so we think weapons are cool. Our country was founded on weapons and freedom; it is inherent to our culture. If anything our Government is trying to brainwash everyone into thinking weapons are bad, and it is working.
 
You lost all credibility on that with "God-given". Given from God, according to whom? Whose God? Would you like to provide a Bible quote citing how God says you should own enough weapons to kill a legion of invading Romans? I will accept the rationale that one may own a (singular) weapon to protect one's household and even another for hunting but there is no valid reason ever to own a cache of weapons that could take out a crowd. Ever.

Yes, weapons are inherent in your culture. That is demonstrated quite well and on a near weekly basis with mass murders within your borders. Maybe it's time to rethink that part of your culture. And, if it's true that your government is trying to change the public perspective on it, why would you assume it's a bad thing? The nutters always assume that the big evil government (that a majority of your population voted for) are trying to disarm them in order to enslave them.... maybe they're trying to disarm the populace because they're nuts and are killing each other?

There is so much paranoia about the government here, I'm surprised most of you don't run your shops from militiamen compounds.
 
3 of us at the office just had bowls of it for lunch. Had our office manager going "Ewwww....poor bambi"....cuz she doesn't like venison. :D

I'm especially quite fond of animals.

Actually, I guess you could call me an animal lover.

I especially love them cooked over an open fire or on a grill!

I'm also quite fond of them in a stew!
 
You lost all credibility on that with "God-given". Given from God, according to whom? Whose God? Would you like to provide a Bible quote citing how God says you should own enough weapons to kill a legion of invading Romans?





Excuse me?

I have taken the liberty of putting in bold the part of our Constitution that states what WE believe is our god given rights.

Please take the time to READ the Constitution!

The Declaration of Independence

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,---That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

*The 56 signatures on the Declaration appear in the positions indicated:

[Column 1]
Georgia:
Button Gwinnett
Lyman Hall
George Walton

[Column 2]
North Carolina:
William Hooper
Joseph Hewes
John Penn
South Carolina:
Edward Rutledge
Thomas Heyward, Jr.
Thomas Lynch, Jr.
Arthur Middleton

[Column 3]
Massachusetts:
John Hancock
Maryland:
Samuel Chase
William Paca
Thomas Stone
Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Virginia:
George Wythe
Richard Henry Lee
Thomas Jefferson
Benjamin Harrison
Thomas Nelson, Jr.
Francis Lightfoot Lee
Carter Braxton

[Column 4]
Pennsylvania:
Robert Morris
Benjamin Rush
Benjamin Franklin
John Morton
George Clymer
James Smith
George Taylor
James Wilson
George Ross
Delaware:
Caesar Rodney
George Read
Thomas McKean

[Column 5]
New York:
William Floyd
Philip Livingston
Francis Lewis
Lewis Morris
New Jersey:
Richard Stockton
John Witherspoon
Francis Hopkinson
John Hart
Abraham Clark

[Column 6]
New Hampshire:
Josiah Bartlett
William Whipple
Massachusetts:
Samuel Adams
John Adams
Robert Treat Paine
Elbridge Gerry
Rhode Island:
Stephen Hopkins
William Ellery
Connecticut:
Roger Sherman
Samuel Huntington
William Williams
Oliver Wolcott
New Hampshire:
Matthew Thornton
 
See i knew this would get entertaining... are you insinuating the constitution and the declaration of independence are the same thing?

Too lazy to quote and edit pertinent parts on my phone.. you should probably edit it before someone on a computer comes along.




LOOOOUD NOISES!
 
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But speaking of the constitution of independence, see that part about trial by jury? Where were all the gun toting militia when they took that right?
 
You lost all credibility on that with "God-given". Given from God, according to whom? Whose God? Would you like to provide a Bible quote citing how God says you should own enough weapons to kill a legion of invading Romans?



Would you like to review the Old Testament or New?

I would think you would need to be pretty well armed to carry out the following.

In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to “take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). Deuteronomy 20:16-17 declares, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…as the LORD your God has commanded you.” Also, 1 Samuel 15:18 says, “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.”
 
I like the new testament a little better.. You're quoting the same author if not book, that says if you rape a virgin, your punishment should be to pay her father 60 shekels of silver and marry her.
 
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See i knew this would get entertaining... are you insinuating the constitution and the declaration of independence are the same thing?

Too lazy to quote and edit pertinent parts on my phone.. you should probably edit it before someone on a computer comes along.




LOOOOUD NOISES!



LOL,

Of course they are not the same.

I was showing where our founding fathers have stated we have certain unalienable Rights
 
I like the new testament a little bettet.. You're quoting the same author if not book, that says if you rape a virgin, your punishment should be to pay her father 60 shekels of silver and marry her.



I was only providing Xander with the quote he was looking for!

You lost all credibility on that with "God-given". Given from God, according to whom? Whose God? Would you like to provide a Bible quote citing how God says you should own enough weapons to kill a legion of invading Romans?
 
Great cut and paste skills, Harold, but you dodged the point entirely. When you base your claims on anything to do with your religion... you've lost the argument. You're no better than those who justify taking children as wives or stoning women for having opinions because their God said it was also alright.
All you've done above is quote a bunch of guys who were tired of the way their King did things. Good for them. Great job for a couple of hundred hears ago. In today's age, almost none of that is relevant and holding on to ancient parchment like it's your nation's lifeblood is not healthy. Only a major paradigm shift is going to keep you guys from destroying yourselves at this point.

Side note: That bolded section is a joke (or a lie, whatever). If all men were created equal, then everybody would have the same access to health care and education but they don't. The poor and ill are swept aside.

Another side note: The gun nuts love to talk about their 2nd Amendment rights but that was to allow the citizenry as members of an organized militia to stand in defence of their nation.
"In a dissent, joined by Justices Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer, Justice Stevens said:
Had the Framers wished to expand the meaning of the phrase “bear arms” to encompass civilian possession and use, they could have done so by the addition of phrases such as “for the defense of themselves,” as was done in the Pennsylvania and Vermont Declarations of Rights. The unmodified use of “bear arms,” by contrast, refers most naturally to a military purpose, as evidenced by its use in literally dozens of contemporary texts." pg12

Are any of the Yosemite Sams in this thread participating members of a militia? Reserves? Yeah, I didn't think so.
 
I hope I have not offended any of my Liberal "friends".

I truly believe that even though I don't agree with you or your views, we can have at it, and still be "friends".

Personally, I don't hold the views of anyone against them.

I have discussions like this all the time with some of my best friends....usually over a cold frosty or two.

Right or wrong, we both have our views.

It's just that mine are "more" right than yours.

LOL
 
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