American Politics (Namely, Healthcare)

While I don't like the term Death Panel since it polarizes any discussion, there are Committees that are being setup that have the task of determining who gets treatment and who does not. If this committee determines that you don't get treatment, you are at risk of dying or at least dying sooner. To say they don't exist is not intellectually honest.

I think this should be called what it is, health care rationing. Rationing exists in every form of Health Care, it exists in our current proposals as well as every current Government sponsored care in the world. It also exists in our current Health care but instead of being based on a committee, its based on costs.

If there is a drug you need that is not covered in the Government run Health Care, or a operation you want is not covered the wealthy can travel to another country to get the drug or operation, the poor can not.

I want health care reform but I want the items that Crabig mentions first and I don't think our government should be involved in Health Care, look at how poorly they have managed Medicare/ Medicaid. For those that don't know Medicare and Medicaid are existing government programs that we have to provide medical coverage for certain groups such as Elderly, Disabled or Low Income)
 
You think its going to be any better with the extreme liberal health care plan with the Death Board deciding who lives or dies? At least under the current plan there is a choice, even if it is based on Money. I'd rather have quality health care at a high price than the government managing the system. Thats okay, you'll see soon enough..

You just showed this board exactly how smart you are. Let me guess, you're a big Sarah Palin supporter?
 
Remember that the ultimate answer is not how much does it cost but witch system helps more people, that is the number that matters.

And can you try to talk on friendly terms, its best to remember that you might be wrong, talk like that AND LISTEN to others.
 
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You just showed this board exactly how smart you are. Let me guess, you're a big Sarah Palin supporter?

I don't claim to be a genius. I keep up with current events and form my own opinions based upon what I see/hear and not what the liberal or conservative media wants me to believe. I'm far from being a leftist of any sort and consider myself more of an independent which these days leans more to the right than anything. I wouldn't consider myself a Sarah Palin supporter. I can take her or leave her IMHO.

Remember that the ultimate answer is not how much does it cost but witch system helps more people, that is the number that matters.

I think you mean "which".

I'm all about the system that helps more people as soon as one is presented opposed to ramming the current bill that serves mostly special interest and socialists agendas down my throat.

And can you try to talk on friendly terms, its best to remember that you might be wrong, talk like that AND LISTEN to others.

What haven't I been friendly about? Please show me something related to that bill that does prove me wrong and that this country will have a bill that reduces the deficit, keeps or increases the current level of health care, and doesn't serve a socialist agenda. I have a strong opinion but at least I don't come out of left field like hondablaster and accuse people of being uneducated.
 
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Thank you for your correction Mac Tech.
I use the excuse that im a foreigner, its very convenient :)

I only know your health system from 60 minutes, movies and talks that come up when someone talks about privatizing more of the health system.
Its beaten down with a vengeance! Mostly with bad metaphors from (about) the US.

So any changes that make the less fortunate more fortunate must be good?
 
Thank you for your correction Mac Tech.
I use the excuse that im a foreigner, its very convenient :)

I only know your health system from 60 minutes, movies and talks that come up when someone talks about privatizing more of the health system.
Its beaten down with a vengeance! Mostly with bad metaphors from (about) the US.

So any changes that make the less fortunate more fortunate must be good?

I like you Cue. At least we can agree to disagree and not get pissy about it. I may have overstated the term deathboard and do prefer the term rationing as sjc@blainecs put it. But as I see it and has been debated before I was on this Earth, its the wrong move. Its more than coincidence that Medicare and Social Security are going broke, our population is increasingly older, and this bill is being hammered on to us without much public documentation and also coincidentally by a demicratically controlled house and senate. Just in time before the right wing get a chance to gain back control of the house and senate. The funny thing is this has been happening for decades and we've succesfully fought it off until now. Ronald Reagan was one of our best presidents and summed it up very well 20 years before he was elected president.
 
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I will leave the debate on this note.

I would like to see something similar in competition to USPS, UPS, and FedEx and DHL. I think if it WAS NOT for USPS, UPS and FED-EX would be sticking it to us left and right. The fact that Fed-Ex and UPS coexist in a world with USPS. Tells me that this can work if done properly!!!!!!!
 
I would like to see something similar in competition to USPS, UPS, and FedEx and DHL. I think if it WAS NOT for USPS, UPS and FED-EX would be sticking it to us left and right. The fact that Fed-Ex and UPS coexist in a world with USPS. Tells me that this can work if done properly!!!!!!!

I see your point, however the USPS has been around long before Fed-Ex, DHL, or UPS existed. All the free market couriers entered a market the government controlled ever since the Pony Express, so they knew full well what they were getting into, but saw an opportunity to be better and more efficient than the USPS. Not to mention an option to expand outside the US boarders where the USPS does not deliver. Furthermore, all the free market carriers still cannot deliver letter mail becuase it is illegal for your mailbox to be delivered any mail by anybody besides the USPS. So the USPS has had to step up efforts to be more competitve with package delivery, yet they can increase the price of letter mail postage whenever they see fit and cut out mail delivery, (like Saturday delivery now).

So is it actually that perhaps the USPS would really be screwing us if it wasn't for Fed-Ex, UPS, and DHL?
 
Why not just leave the boarders wide open and give health care to illegal aliens while they stay here and not pay taxes and continue to commit crimes against American citizens? You say a completely free market doesn't work but it has a much better record than socialism or did you not know about the fall of the Berlin Wall and the former Soviet Union?

Unless you are a 100% Native American how can you say this? If you are white, more likely than not the exact same arguments were brought up against your ancestors. Also, a large number of illegal immigrants pay taxes. If they have facked a SSN, they pay taxes. All of them pay sales tax. There was a funny story in a local paper recently about an illegal immigrant that stole someone's SSN and had to pay their child support after they got a job.

You can try and fear monger the term socialism all you want, but Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union were both fascist states, not socialist.
 
Unless you are a 100% Native American how can you say this? If you are white, more likely than not the exact same arguments were brought up against your ancestors. Also, a large number of illegal immigrants pay taxes. If they have facked a SSN, they pay taxes. All of them pay sales tax. There was a funny story in a local paper recently about an illegal immigrant that stole someone's SSN and had to pay their child support after they got a job.

I'm actually half American Indian, so according to you I have half a right to say this. If they work for a legit employer, their employer pays their taxes.

You can try and fear monger the term socialism all you want, but Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union were both fascist states, not socialist.

Soviet Union = USSR = Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Nazi Germany and the Third Reich are the common English names for Germany between 1933 and 1945, while it was led by Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist German Worker's Party (NSDAP

East Germany, officially known as the German Democratic Republic (GDR); German: Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR), was a socialist state that succeeded the Soviet Zone of occupied Germany and the Soviet sector of occupied Berlin.
 
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You can try and fear monger the term socialism all you want, but Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union were both fascist states, not socialist.

But France is a Democratic Socialist state, and you see how great it's doing... double digit unemployment is the norm, absolutely NO innovation or fresh ideas.

Socialism breeds mediocrity. It's human nature. "Why work harder or come up with the next great idea, if I'm not going to get anything extra from it?"

This is where the term American Exceptionalisim comes in. The idea that America is great, simply because of who we are. The harder you work, the better off you are. Anyone can go from the gutter to the penthouse suite.
 
The second you allow one group of men and women to provide services funded through the barrel of a gun, anything goes. Call it socialism, fascism, communism, democracy, republic, whatever, it's just different flavors of the same thing.

The only thing that was once exceptional about Americans was the degree of freedom we enjoyed. When human minds and ambitions are allowed to work unhampered, even relatively so, exceptional things happen. We've been dragged down to the level of most of the world now, and people are starting to feel the weight of the chains they could ignore when the debt-funded economic boom was in full swing.

Try to imagine a world where people didn't have laws allowing some to use force against others to get what they want, and you'll get a glimpse of a much more beautiful and peaceful world. It's not easy, since you've been trained your whole life to imagine people at their worst, but well worth the exercise.

Peace,


Sky
 
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