When is it OK to reinstall/reload Windows?

[frederick]

This is something I just see to often from other techs: Just reload Windows.

Some chalk it up to "saving time", others do it to avoid saying they have no clue what they are doing. The list of reasons seem to endless, and not all of them are for the wrong reasons.

Saving Time (or customers money)
Any time I hear this excuse, I wonder whose time it is. Is it your time? Is it the customers time? Too often I find that it is the technicians time, and this makes me feel that the technician cares more about the money than about the relationship. This may not [always] be the case, but it is how I view it. If you are doing a complete reload of Windows, then whose going to sit there and reinstall the programs? Configure it back the way it was? Usually the customer, and to me, I find that this hurts the relationship because now they are wasting their time. They paid you for a job. Even if you upsell on installing the software again, they are going to probably think in the back of their head "I know how to put a CD in a CD Drive". Or, the more common issue I run in to: they don't have the install media anymore. Now you've cost them even more money and time. And honestly, I wouldn't blame them if they said "I'm just gonna buy a new computer". Now you've lost money and possibly a customer.

Lack of Experience
If you don't know what you are doing, the last thing you should do is anything but handing it back and saying "above my pay grade" or buckle down and learn. Most likely you are not going to admit how you don't know how to do X, Y or Z. But too often I see that a lack of experience equates to reloading the OS. Especially when it comes to virus infections. I stand vigilant, and I use the tools I know that work. If the system is in the shop, how much time are you actually in front of the computer performing a virus removal? Do you not have tools that do a lot of it for you? Thanks to dFunk, I spend maybe between 15 to 45 minutes in front of the system removing entries. The pre-scan has gotten large thanks to this, and as a result, systems are getting out quick. So, I've saved time, and as a result, the client is saving money because I've stayed on top of it.

More on experience is this: If you've tried everything, and done as much research in to the problem as you can, then chances are the only option left to you is to detonate a nuclear bomb and pave over the blast site.

OS/Profile Corruption
99.9% of the time, this is fixed too easily with the Tweaking.com tool. I know what my problem is, so I most likely don't need to check everything in the repair tool. SFC/DISM is a magical feature in Windows, worse yet, the bootable media is just as good as well in some cases. This hits on my note about tools. Tools exist, and if you know how to use them, they save you time and money, and they save the client time and money. That 00.1% the rest of the time is when the OS is in such bad shape, that a nuclear bomb has already gone off and there is no recovery.

If the tools don't work, then either you lack the experience and knowledge to use them correctly OR you are encountering a problem far more advanced than you thought it was.

Hard Drive Replacements
If you can see the hard drive, read to it, and write to it, but it needs to be replaced for whatever reason...then image it and transfer it to the new hard drive.

"I'm reloading the OS on the new hard drive to save time" Again, who are you saving time? Even if you do a Windows Image install, who is going to reinstall all the software, transfer the files, etc? If we are talking about a corrupted OS or even a corrupted file, doing a "backup and restore" might not grab it all. Not too mention I've seen too many cases where users save or place files in the oddest, non-user profile locations. Are you sure that Windows Profile Transfer will grab them?

"I'm reloading the OS on the new hard so the OS is in pristine condition" What I'm hearing is that you'd rather cost you or the customer more time in reinstalling and transferring everything still.

Unless the hard drive is in such a bad condition that it's going to cost a very sexy penny to recover, I'd rather image the hard drive, transfer it to a new one, and then do a repair. If I get the system in early in the morning, chances are you will it have it back tomorrow or the next day depending on if there is space on the bench or if we have a bay open in our imaging machine.

Viruses and other infections
So here is my story on this...Client comes to me with an infected system and decides that my prices are too high and he's going to do a OS reload and just recover from Carbonite. He calls me up again 2 days later and tells me his computer is still infected. I told him that Carbonite might have backed up the infection and put it right back on the system again and that I can remove the infection for him and he wont have to worry about it. He wants to hear nothing of it. So he decided to do a Windows Account Transfer, reload the OS, and calls me again in 2 days. "My computer is still infected!!!" I told him he most likely transferred the virus again this time with the Account transfer. Wants to hear nothing of it again. About a week goes by, he calls me up and says he's going to pay me to clean up his computer. I take it in, and it turns out that this Excel file has a Macro Virus in it. When he got his computer back the next day, he was ecstatic, and since has become a loyal customer.

Never assume that a reload is going to fix your virus problems.


It is is my firm belief that an OS reload is never the first answer. Even when we are talking about business clients. Not all employees make sure everything is saved to the file server or keep it in their profile, making it more imperative that either A) you do a proper backup, or B) you do an image transfer.

These are my personal thoughts on the matter. Yours?

 

[Matthew Bradley]

One of my biggest pet peeves. I call it a shotgun fix, because that's exactly what it is. One of the competitors in my town does this constantly and then complains to me why people call in all the time that their printer no longer works, they're missing (insert obscure program here) and all the pictures they placed 12 folders deep in the Windows\temp directory aren't there any more! I'd say we do complete re-installed maybe 5% of the time and it's usually because of a bad hard drive. You're in the computer service business - learn how to service them.

 

[gadgetfixup]

We only have a couple serious competitors in town and this is their fix for everything; nuke and pave. I don't have anything against them as they are building our clientele. We've had so many customers come in saying some shop just reloaded their computer and lost all their data without contacting them. They come in almost gun shy of letting anyone touch their computer again, forcing us to reiterate we don't delete anyone's data without contact them and doing backups. We understand customer data is invaluable and a huge liability for us.

How these other shops don't get sued is beyond me. I suppose their day is coming. In the meanwhile, they're making our techs look like Saints. I'm not to the point of sending Holiday gifts to our local competitors, but getting close.

 

[Kitten Kong]

This is a true copy and paste on one of our local buy n sell groups on face book.

Names redacted, initials only.

Anybody know of anyone wh can look at loatops mine every slow alsorts of windows keep popping up ans how much ta

eah I know Te
21 April at 12:21 · Like

DEThanks
21 April at 12:22 · Like

GK see JC he on salford bargains cheap and good
21 April at 12:26 · Like

SC see JL
21 April at 12:28 · Like

AlP I can do it £10-£15 depending how bad it is..
21 April at 12:28 · Edited · Like

CC MC whose my boyfriend can inbox him hun x
21 April at 12:36 · Like

Cp Jl the person you want
21 April at 12:40 · Like


SB BWTC did mine DE, we had exactly the same problem , took it away at night and back next morning, its a virus you have on it
21 April at 12:47 · Edited · Like

AE Download ccleaner from google
21 April at 13:07 · Like

JC I charge £25 for this I back up your data then reinstall windows 7 completely then I include antivirus and office 2010. I am also mobile or you can drop it down to my office/workshop in Xxx (this is the guy who was recommended above)
21 April at 13:08 · Like

NN 15 pounds format and new windows7 or 20 if you wanted your data on disks
21 April at 14:12 · Like

the person referenced as JL repairs computers, isn't a bad tech, only is a complete pizza tech. In fact worse than a pizza tech, as they charge zip, zilch, nada, nothing. They do ALL repairs free of charge.

These are the complete pizza techs I'm sure we see all the time. With clients who either cannot or will not pay for professional services. I know I certainly don't want these types as clients of mine. But I'm sure these are the guys who when we tell clients we need recovery media, as the coa is missing/torn etc, will say we are lying and are only attempting to gain more money out of them.

As you see from above, there is no mention of actually removing the 'virus', it's a straight nuke and pave. The JC character doesn't even mention backing up clients files. Only that he will also install office 2010 together with the nuke for a measly £25.00.

 

['putertutor]

I hate doing any N&Ps. I take it as a personal failure, and those sting. That being said, I have done maybe a handful in my time, for issues that I simply couldn't run down and the client approved. Still, I only do them if I can be assured of a getting the system back to as near as possible as it was when it came in. I did one just a few weeks ago, this is the post on it. I simply couldn't find the issue here and the amount of time this thing had on my bench was climbing into unreasonable quantities. Sure, had I more time and possibly more experience, maybe I could have buttoned it up without the N&P, and in short order, but after tapping out what I could, and applying the suggestions both her and from other fellow techs I know, I felt I had reached a reasonable point where N&P now became the last option.

I'm in agreement with you, for the most part, N&P = bad, outside of a larger corporate environment where it is often the quickest, most cost effective option, and they are built for that as their primary solution, in many cases.

 

[ohio_grad_06]

I usually try to not have to do a nuke and pave. 90% of the time it's not necessary. But every once in a while I get one where it seems like the easiest thing for me at least to back up the data and reformat again. I've got one client, cleaned his computer up a week or 2 ago. Returned it, he said it was still doing the same thing, I'm like I never would have given it back if I thought it had trouble. Go to his house, re do part of my work, and sit with it for a while, making sure it's acting good. He calls up next day and says 2 hours after I left it started up again. At that point to me, it's easier and maybe even better for his peace of mind to have the nuke and pave, as then we know almost 100%(of course you never do truly know), that the computer is clean.

In this case, the system appeared clean after I finished, but IE after a little bit of time would open a blank instance of itself and then direct to an ad site. You could not hardly kill the process.

Ran Rogue Killer, JRT, Adwcleaner, among 5-6 others including a bootable scan to try to kill it off. Nope. Even going back and rolling back to a previous version of IE and deleting all system restore points did not do it.

 

[NYJimbo]

I do hardware work for another shop that is about 80% N&P. What they do is tell the customer all the negative stuff that COULD happen if they don't do the N&P and the customer goes for it. The customer has no idea if what the tech tells them is true, so what can they do ? Its just like when they go to BestBuy or MicroCenter, the techs there tell them its going to be an expensive nightmare for almost any repair and the customer buys a new computer. If there was "undercoating" for computers these places could sell it to most customers.

 

[NYJimbo]

As soon as they posted or got tagged for work I'd log in with a shill account and hammer them with accusations. Stuff like, "there you are, when are you going to give back my laptop you stole a month ago"? Why did you block my Mom after you broke her laptop? My sister says you're stalking her since you worked on her computer you perv. All sorts of inspirational questions, encouraged by an elevated BAC no less Of course they'd come back with don't know you, or your mom but the seed was planted. We'd banter back and forth until they gave up.

Am I the only one who thinks this is not cool and really wonder why you would attack another tech (skilled or not) with fake, potentially damaging accusations ?

 

[gadgetfixup]

I apologize but I do know most of the people I hammered in our local FB groups and many are ex-cons and in no way shape or form what you'd call a tech. These weren't random people I didn't know. I know it wasn't nice and I apologize but I probably saved a few people as well that didn't know the history of these guys.

 

[frederick]

These are my personal and shop rules when it comes to a nuke and pave:

1) Research the problem thoroughly. Don't just go with your supposed "experience" with this problem. If your experience right away says to nuke and pave then you've not properly identified the problem.
2) If you know what the problem is, make sure you use the appropriate tool(s) and measures to remedy the problem. If you don't know how to use the tool(s) or measures properly to fix the problem, then ask someone.
3) If you used the tool(s) properly, you've identified the problem correctly, and you have eliminated every other possibility, then the problem is beyond your capacity. Escalate if you can, otherwise confirm with a peer.
4) Once you and a peer have come to the same conclusion, then is it ok to perform a nuke and pave.

We use a lot of collaboration in the shop. We will bounce ideas off each other, like a checking the checker thing. It's ok to get frustrated with the gremlins in the computer, lord knows I've sat in front of a computer calling it every possible bad name in the book. But you can't let it cause you to lose focus. When that happens, that's when you are encouraged to seek peer and use them to bounce ideas off of. Maybe you missed something, maybe you were on the right path and its your only choice left. Of the computers that come through, that we work on, rarely do I say "nuke it, pave it, call it a day".

 

[sapphirescales]

I almost always recommend a N&P the first time a client brings in a system. Then I can set it up with a clean install with no junk, a proper AV solution, ad blocking software, etc. and I can be 100% positive that everything is PERFECT. Then from there for the next 5-7 years that the client owns the computer, I'll clean it up and such as needed. But honestly, I get very few software issues after I've properly configured the software with a clean install and all the proper protections. I'd say close to 90% of our work for past clients is hardware issues. Clients love it. I see computers 4 and 5 years later that still work *almost* as perfectly as when I sent it out the door. It's almost as fast, has very few problems, and is generally still a great computer (other than the hardware issue they brought it in for like a bad screen or whatever).

 

[Highlander]

Just doing a N & P now. Dodgy Windows 7 Ultimate laptop riddled with malware and viruses. Windows 7 Home Premium COA on underside of laptop, so I reckoned the best course of action is to install the correct version. Backed up data and informed client what I was going to do. They agreed so going ahead.

 

[Calx]

I find sometimes a Nuk is what the customer wants. It's often a last resort, but a useful one. I always make sure the customers know that printers/ wifi settings etc will need to be reinstalled, I will do this for them if necessary. I back up their data.

This weekend just gone after 14 hours, sat in front a vista laptop, I think I was justified in nuking it.. in fact I am surprised I didn't actually throw it out the window!

 

[Porthos]

Just doing a N & P now. Dodgy Windows 7 Ultimate laptop riddled with malware and viruses. Windows 7 Home Premium COA on underside of laptop, so I reckoned the best course of action is to install the correct version. Backed up data and informed client what I was going to do. They agreed so going ahead.

In this exact situation it is a mandatory N&P. I will not work on a computer with a dodgy OS.

 

[joydivision]

I do N&Ps if the existing OS is pirated, or there is no commercial software etc installed. It really depends on the situation, on a computer with lots of commercial software and data then I avoid doing an N&P unless I really have to, if there is no office, hardly any data etc put tuns of malware then a N&P is often the best option for all concerned.

Edit if I do a N&P I always set it up onsite, and reinstall the printer and reconnect the WIFI etc.

 

[frederick]

Just doing a N & P now. Dodgy Windows 7 Ultimate laptop riddled with malware and viruses. Windows 7 Home Premium COA on underside of laptop, so I reckoned the best course of action is to install the correct version. Backed up data and informed client what I was going to do. They agreed so going ahead.

I forgot about these. Thank you for mentioning this.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I tend to nuke and pave more and more. 95% of my clients have typical software needs and don't use most of the software that a system is preinstalled with. I keep current images of Win 7 Home and Pro and Windows 8.1 Home and Pro. (I really cringe when I see a tech posting a request for system recovery disks. Make your own master disks or deliver pizza.) With tools to make full images, FABS, Snappy Driver installer and good inventory of the software on the system it is very easy and quick to turn a system around and have a very satisfied client. The pizza techs that nuke and pave make no effort to backup data or ascertain what software the client is using. A good tech does. You can waste a lot of time(and billable hours) beating your head against a wall to get a band aid or you can properly collect data and give your client a like new system tuned and ready. And the more you move your client base to SMB clients the more important that is. Good client setups have data on servers. So dropping in a new workstation or a N&P with an image can make for a faster turn around and get an idle employee back to work.

 

[mr m]

These are my personal thoughts on the matter. Yours?

X2.

 

[sapphirescales]

I always discuss the options with the client. A N&P will always result in a system that runs absolutely perfectly. And the way I charge, it's about the same price whether I clean things up or do a N&P (there's about a $10 difference). I explain that if we do a N&P they'll lose all settings and will have to reinstall their printer and other software. Or I can do that for them for an additional charge. I'd say 9 times out of 10 the client wants to reinstall the stuff themselves. I back up all their actual data then do the procedure.

But once I've done it once, I try not to do it again on that computer. There's just no need. But yeah, if I get something in with pirated Windows, a N&P is mandatory. If they don't want it, they can go somewhere else.

 

[altrenda]

IMO, most of the time N&P is done for the benefit of the tech, not the customer. For Geek Squad types, it's faster since they can't always troubleshoot the problem, just wipe it out and start over. Apple does the same thing, screw the customers setup, here's your working computer, with none of your network, printer, or bookmarks setup ,and maybe your data and applications missing. Gotta keep those machines moving and get to the next one.

I estimate it takes at least a week for a customer to get things back to a usable state.