What are the firearm owners here carrying and how?

[NETWizz]

As for everyone recommending you carry, it IS legal in Utah to conceal carry or carry loaded weapons about the public with a permit. That said ownership is certainly legal, and you do NOT need any fancy licence to buy. You CAN open carry in public with the firearm unloaded, but I see no reason why you cannot have a magazine ready... nor do I think it is a good idea to open carry.

Instead, you should get a permit in my opinion if you are going to carry in public and do so concealed.

You CAN carry at your home or in your place of business without a permit.

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gun-laws/utah/


That said, no matter what ONLY shoot in self defence, talk to a lawyer first, and make damned sure to have both witnesses and video because anything less will land you in jail. If you think you are innocent until proven guilty, you aren't really the way the justice system really works.

 

[katz]

I dropped the concealed carry years ago when I decided I couldn't live with the thought of fatally wounding a person. But I'm not unarmed...I always have pepper spray at the ready, and let me tell you, that stuff will do a number on anyone. I got a sideways whiff of the early on the market pepper spray years ago, and I thought I was done for, lol. A full blast of the spray in the face will put anyone on the floor.

 

[MichaelEC]

Being from Canada, this sounds nuts, like it still is the wild west down there, haha

Some of us still take responsibility for our own safety.

 

[Mike McCall]

The vast majority of people I have met or know personally who have fired a weapon in combat or self defense, never wish to experience it again. The false bravado of those who think they know how they would react in such a circumstance, what it is to take a life, and the haunting after-effects, have no real concept of what they're talking about. Those who have, take no pleasure in what they did, nor do they brag about how macho they are. No, the vast majority of these people wish they had never been in such circumstances. Taking a life, even when justified, is no small matter.

 

[MichaelEC]

Really? Care to flesh out that statement any? How does Canada (and the entirety of the Western world) having a comparatively infinitesimal gun death rate ( all causes or each, slice the figures any way you like ) equate to "not taking responsibility"? I'd say that logic dictates the EXACT opposite. Already this discussion has escalated from an ex-con possibly looking to put one over on someone, perhaps burglary or petty theft, perhaps nothing at all to MAKE SURE YOU'RE ARMED, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT COULD HAPPEN. MAYBE HE'S VIOLENT!!! Yeah well maybe he's Charles fucking Manson!! Man the FUD is just insane.

@

Meaning many of us don't rely on the police to save us, who when seconds count, are only minutes away.

Of course, I'm certain the RCMP are right at your doorstep should you ever require their services. Right?

 

[allanc]

="MikeLierman, post: 568309, member: 10586"I actually had a conversation with a corporal officer last night, and he did say that he highly recommends anyone in sound mental state to get a gun class conceal carry permit.
We have 91,000 people in the city.

For my own enlightement...
Are you saying that the officer was saying that everyone in your smallish town should have a gun permit (and possibly carry one)
OR
That everyone in a scenario similar to yours should have a gun permit (and possibly carry one)?

 

[ohio_grad_06]

As for folks not from the USA saying it seems like the wild west, I'd say not the case. I do not carry, though I would like to get a weapon and carry. I was doing quite a bit of work near where there were a lot of protests etc a while back. A bit scary. You hope that nothing happens, but you can't control what others do.

I grew up around guns, hunted as a kid. I don't own a pistol, but own a 16 guage semi automatic shotgun that I used for hunting when I was younger.

Dad has for a long time had a .357 revolver. Think of the old Clint Eastwood dirty Harry movies, that kind. He has 2 shotguns, then he bought mom a 9mm, and a .38 at Christmas, and they both now have their concealed carry. The town I grew up in seems to have gone downhill somewhat safety wise unfortunately. Mom may start carrying the .38 and also I think carries a taser. For example they have issues there like you will be driving, and someone will stop over hill in the road to where you can't see them and let you rear end them, then rob you when you rear end them.

I've never seen anyone get shot in person, hope I never would have to shoot someone, but if someone breaks in my house and threatens me or my family, not going to mess around with them. I would hate to kill someone and would have a hard time dealing with it, but I will protect my life and my family.

I know that in this area, one guy I know very well, he and his wife are probably in their 60s, but the police in town I guess are considered out of area for them from what he told me, so the sheriff would have to come out, which he said in their area can take 15-20 minutes, if they come out at all. So they have a gun safe with multiple guns and are pretty proficient with them.


As to what is going on with the op, hard situation to be in. I definitely like the idea of the fake dvr, but just be safe. Don't do anything raready to provoke but cover yourself legally and safety wise.

 

[OaksLabs]

If you do decide to carry a concealed firearm (knife, electric weapon, or billy club as allowed in my locality) I advise you to do it well. By that, I mean a good class/training, legal advise, a company policy for your employees, and educating yourself.

Here are a few resources:

• https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Basics...the+basics+of+personal+protection+in+the+home
  
  This book is worth it's weight in gold. Read it cover to cover (I'd suggest twice). It is a common "textbook" for concealed carry classes, and it is a very through coverage of the important details.
  
  
• http://concealednation.org/
  
  This is a general information and news site about concealed carry. What I like about them is they emphasize doing things right, with the correct equipment and training. They also circulate news stories about good guys with guns, which are not circulated as widely as stories about bad guys with guns (aka wild west stories to our non-US friends).
  
  
• http://aliengearholsters.com/
  
  These holsters are high quality, comfortable, and safe (as they are molded for the gun and thus properly protect the trigger).

Concealed carry is a lifestyle choice. If you do decide to carry, do yourself a favor and be educated and trained.

 

[MichaelEC]

I like Black Arch myself. I use several for the HK USP45 Tactical, PPS, and P99. I plan on getting one for the SIG-Sauer P220. I may wait until next spring though since we are getting into cooler weather I'll be wearing more OWB with a cover shirt.

 

[NETWizz]

Really? Care to flesh out that statement any? How does Canada (and the entirety of the Western world) having a comparatively infinitesimal gun death rate ( all causes or each, slice the figures any way you like ) equate to "not taking responsibility"? I'd say that logic dictates the EXACT opposite. Already this discussion has escalated from an ex-con possibly looking to put one over on someone, perhaps burglary or petty theft, perhaps nothing at all to MAKE SURE YOU'RE ARMED, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT COULD HAPPEN. MAYBE HE'S VIOLENT!!! Yeah well maybe he's Charles fucking Manson!! Man the FUD is just insane.

@

First of all, it is NOT like the Wild West in the United States... at least not like the movies. Legally-armed, sane folks who carry their firearms do NOT randomly whip them out every-time someone or something pisses them off. If anything they exude a level of confidence and will de-escalate situations; especially since they know shooting (even if justified) will likely still land them behind bars and also in financial ruin.

That said, I am recommending those who can be armed to be armed.

... but no matter what happens even if he steals stuff in daylight or breaks in at night, you do NOT shoot him with anything but a camera. The firearm is ONLY for handling the type of situation where he shows up and starts going on a violent rampage and must be stopped.


Personally, I made the choice to be a legally armed citizen. What that means is I took training, passed a written test, passed a shooting test, and had a favorable background check. Even then, I follow the laws for where, what, and how I carry. Basically, this means a small pistol (even though it shoots a big bullet - the Springfield XDS 45) well concealed and use common-sense avoiding places with no-gun signs and Government buildings (they like having a monopoly on who is armed). The facts are that carrying it around is like carrying a small, heavy metal brick, but leaving home without it you feel like something is missing like when you forget to bring your cellphone. Occasionally, I clean it because it gets full of lint! Oh, and I used to shoot it at least a dozen times a year at a local shooting range, but now that I am in a larger city with crowding (and idiots at the indoor gun ranges) I only shoot maybe a handful of times a year and typically a long way from home.

 

[NETWizz]

Great tips about the decoy DVR unit. You should be able to pick up a cheapo and set it up.
You may have 2 or 3 hundred dollars tops invested, but if you hide the real one well and put
the fake in plain sight they are more likely to take the bait and leave the real one alone. Great
tip actually. Make sure you use the same color ethernet cables, as the ones going to the cameras.

Also, great tip about forced entry sensors. Glass monitors and door monitors aren't a lot of money
per month and you may get a break on your insurance for it.

That is very true, but a typical criminal is NOT going to be astute enough to notice the cable color change. Either way, do it. If you are going to go all out may as well do a cable color change.

 

[NETWizz]

If you do decide to carry a concealed firearm (knife, electric weapon, or billy club as allowed in my locality) I advise you to do it well. By that, I mean a good class/training, legal advise, a company policy for your employees, and educating yourself.

Concealed carry is a lifestyle choice. If you do decide to carry, do yourself a favor and be educated and trained.

Yes, I cannot re-iterate this enough. Carrying is really NOT for everybody not just for legal reasons but for philosophical reasons too. If you are philosophically opposed then by all means do not feel obligated or pressured to carry. Either way, if you do PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE seek training. You will want to know and follow ALL safety rules, use only a quality firearm (not some saturday night special), and you will want to train to be comfortable and proficient in use such that your carrying is not a danger to others. The biggest thing is that when carrying do not go do show & tell or flash it around. Nobody but you needs to know and it may even be a danger if they do. Only my closest of friends know I carry.

One time I went out with a group of College Professors when I was teaching. We went out to eat at a Japaneese Hibachi restaurant, and I listed and even participated in their anti-gun conversation about how guns are bad and everyone that owns one is an awful human being and shouldn't be allowed within 100' of others etc. I never even hinted that I was pro-gun. Instead, I just asked some questions and let them talk freely. Figured I could better understand where they are coming from. What I NEVER said was that at the same table... less than 5' from them I was concealing a .45 cal. It is NOT something they needed to know and would not have benefited anybody had there been a situation.

 

[MichaelEC]

CANT. Carry always, never tell.

 

[MichaelEC]

Do guns scare you?

 

[MDD1963]

For those that live in free/constitutional carry states, or, have their CCW permits...

The KelTec PF9 (or Ruger LC9) is a fairly small, lightweight DAO autopistol which *will* fit in a front shirt pocket or jeans back pocket. I thought the recoil of my 12.9 ounce PF9 would be noticeable, physics being physics, but, was pleasantly surprised at the pistol having less felt recoil and muzzle flip than even a steel .380 PPK, which is amazing considering the PF9 is a 9x19 pistol weighing a full 10 ounces less than the PPK. No pain, no slide bite on the web of the hand, and about the same light felt recoil as a steel framed Govt .45 ACP....

Here's the good part...; I bought mine in 2010 for $255!

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

S&W Bodyguard is a great ultra small for conceal/carry....our wiring guy has one, keeps it in a small canvas pouch on his belt that fully encloses it, looks like a working class cell phone pouch, or one of those diabetes monitor cases. Can't tell it's a gun.
Another one of our guys has the S&W Shield...medium sized.
I have a S&W SD9VE

 

[NETWizz]

S&W Bodyguard is a great ultra small for conceal/carry....our wiring guy has one, keeps it in a small canvas pouch on his belt that fully encloses it, looks like a working class cell phone pouch, or one of those diabetes monitor cases. Can't tell it's a gun.
Another one of our guys has the S&W Shield...medium sized.
I have a S&W SD9VE

I have heard great things about the S&W SD9VE, but personally if I were buying S&W, I would probably buy the M&P. Otherwise instead of the SD9VE I would just buy a Glock, which in my estimation is what the SD9VE more ore less copies.

Personally, I carry the Springfield XDS .45 3.3"

 

[MichaelEC]

When I have to carry for deep concealment it's a Kel-Tec P3-AT. You can safely hide that little thing anywhere. DAO so it's safe too.

I have first year Interarms production PPK in stainless arriving at my FFL in a few days I bought for coat pocket carry this winter. I had been carrying a PPS in a slim nylon IWB but it's to bulky to put in a coat pocket holstered, but you can't carry it without because of the trigger. I tried carrying my PP, but it's larger and doesn't fit most of my pockets comfortably. It's in 7,65mm too, so the PPK will be a step up to 9mmk.

Should we start a separate thread in OT about firearms?

 

[MichaelEC]

If you have a CCW or CCL and carry regularly, what do you carry mostly and how?

Your favorite carry?

When I have to wear a winter coat and have limited to no access to a belt holster, depending upon the coat and pocket size, I will be carrying a PPK mostly, or a P99. Going deep it will be the Kel-Tec P3-AT. All three are pretty much weatherproof with minimal maintenance required.

The other three seasons will have me carrying mostly a Walther P5. Other days it may be the SIG-Sauer P220 or USP45 Tactical, or P99. Sometimes the PPS, but I find that more often than not the PPS is staying in the cabinet. It is just not fulfilling the role for which I purchased it. If it wasn't a Walther it would already be gone but it is part of a collection so it stays.

 

[NETWizz]

That's probably the reason why I feel so uneasy whenever I'm in the states...

I'm sorry if comparing to the wild west was offensive, it's just mind-blowing to me, living with the reality that anyone around you could be carrying a gun. After reading through the posts, I do have a new respect for you who do carry. That is not an easy burden.

It is not offensive; it is just a stereotype we understand. The United States does have its fair share of idiots, but in reality most people are not carrying a firearm, and most who do are no threat. The thing is it varies vastly by area such that if you are in Texas, South Carolina, Georgial, Flordia, etc. should you go to a Movie Theater, there are probably a small handful of armed folks. In contrast, in places like
Colorado, California, and New York there are probably none.

The issue is that in those places where criminals know that nobody can legally carry, they often choose as their targets because they are not scared of anything but another armed person.

Now each state is vastly different. South Carolina for instance has legal concealed carry with a permit. In contrast Georgia allows both open carry and concealed carry with a permit. A friend of mine who lives in Georgia has the permit and openly carries all over the place. To me a person just walking around wearing a firearm holstered on their side is doing it mostly for macho reasons and showing off because doing that you loose any element of surprise, make yourself a target, and I am certain a lot of people are uneasy about it. I personally feel that it plays into the stereotype of "wild west." Sure, it gets people used to seeing firearms and it is a deterrent to crime, but it also puts everyone on higher alert. I just figure it is counter-productive and give him a little extra space such that if a criminal ever acts they will shoot at him first.

Am I crazy for not wanting to make someone uncomfortable and NOT open carrying even where allowed?