Tension on TN

[YeOldeStonecat]

I'm so salty I don't have to worry about ice on my sidewalk.

Bring on the Chuck Norris sayings!

 

[16k_zx81]

It's a nice idea but here in the UK you don't need a business licence, you don't even need to be VAT registered. You can simply start up and be self-employed. I suspect the same could be said of other countries.

Over here you just need an Australian Business Number. Registration is free. There is a fee to register a business name. Doesnt cost much though.

 

[Screwloose]

I imagine that if Bryce required a business license to be able to get into the "Tech only" forum it would dramatically shrink the numbers of those able to use it .... and correct me if I am mistaken but, isnt this a site for not only business owners but also those who are techs and aspiring to own their own business???

I have my own business on the side ( no license tho ) and have a core customer base of about 20 customers but I also work full time in the IT industry as an SCCM admin and software packager. So are you saying that techs like myself who do a little side work but work in corporate environments should not be able to access the "Tech only" forums? wouldnt it make more sense that the "Business and Legal" forums would be the place to impose those kinds of restrictions?

I think if Bryce began imposing restrictions based solely on licensed business ownership then TN would be a sadder, lonelier place... just my .02

 

[dond]

I agree with screwloose, I don't jump in on much since I only like to respond when I feel I have something to add. I don't have an actual business yet, I work in a corporate environment and fix a few problems on the side, however I have been involved with computer work since the late sixty's. I have learned a lot from trolling this board in the short amount of time I have been a member. Some actual computer repair but a lot more in the mind set of computer repair companies and how to handle customers relations. So I would be disappointed if the access rules are changed.
My 2 cents says if you don't care for what a poster says IGNORE THEM, if you disagree with something, post your fix for the OP and if you think someone else has the right answer give them a thumbs up. Thanks.

 

[carrcomp]

Yes good idea, in fact put a few of the forums in there as well. It could easily by done and would satisfy the masses that least the person is running a business. It doesn't stop you being an idiot though

Seriously though that would be easy to setup as you would just create a new group say called verified business owners or whatever and give that group permission to those forums.

I would love to see his opinion on all this.

 

[altrenda]

Might as well put up a paywall as well. If you want to drive away users, go all the way.

I started this thread hoping that people would be a little more civil and professional, but it seems to have taken a serious turn.

 

[Xander]

You make it sound like "professional" and "serious" are exclusionary. I think that this has turned into a very professional and serious discussion about ways to alleviate some of the causes of "Tension on TN" (that being your thread's title).

 

[carrcomp]

Might as well put up a paywall as well. If you want to drive away users, go all the way.

I started this thread hoping that people would be a little more civil and professional, but it seems to have taken a serious turn.

A paywall wouldn't solve anything, although I do realise that you weren't being serious about it.

When a concern like this is brought up, I think that the body reviewing the concern shouldn't just pat you on the back and tell you it's all right ... there should be change.

 

[altrenda]

You make it sound like "professional" and "serious" are exclusionary. I think that this has turned into a very professional and serious discussion about ways to alleviate some of the causes of "Tension on TN" (that being your thread's title).

The serious part IS the exclusionary part. Limit it to verified business owners and you will cut out some valuable contributors. But you will still allow some of the more contentious members.

The smaller numbers would be easier to police, though.

 

[Bryce W]

Keep in mind the issue is about problem members. Even if we have some sort of seperation/verification, problem members will still be on the inside of that new group. The focus of these discussions should be getting problem members off the board entirely, regardless whether they are unverified/verified.

 

[angry_geek]

Honestly, how many problem members do we have, or get? It doesn't happen very often. When it does, it would be nice to have a way to deal with it swiftly, but I don't know what that method would be. Maybe, we could have a "wall of shame" or something like that. I like the idea of rating members, or at least the quality of their contributions, but post count or time active shouldn't be the only method. I would like a "closed" area for more advanced discussion. Something that would be visible on the forum, but have to be approved in order to participate in the conversations.

 

[TimJacobs]

I would like a "closed" area for more advanced discussion. Something that would be visible on the forum, but have to be approved in order to participate in the conversations.

I agree with this completely.

 

[carrcomp]

Honestly, how many problem members do we have, or get? It doesn't happen very often. When it does, it would be nice to have a way to deal with it swiftly, but I don't know what that method would be. Maybe, we could have a "wall of shame" or something like that. I like the idea of rating members, or at least the quality of their contributions, but post count or time active shouldn't be the only method. I would like a "closed" area for more advanced discussion. Something that would be visible on the forum, but have to be approved in order to participate in the conversations.

The question that came to my mind would be a common question.

Do I have approval?
Why not?

I see more problems.

 

[16k_zx81]

The question that came to my mind would be a common question.

Do I have approval?
Why not?

I see more problems.

I think that 'vetting' becomes very problematic from an administrative standpoint, but also the consequence of almost any degree of imposed gatekeeping would be a lessening of new, participating members.

Given that this is a relatively small community, with a very small pool of active members, its probably not going to be all that beneficial to sustaining or growing population by making too many measures in the form of entrance barriers.

Personally I would not like to see 'less' participation here, which could be the consequence of any strictly imposed rule over time.

I think the issue is not about 'proof' but more about making the expectations evident from the outset and ensuring they are enforced in a consistent and fair manner as infringements or issues occur.

.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

IMO...."verification" steps would be a burden to the site overall. Forum staff would have to invest much more time going through the steps of admitting new members.

The community here self polices quite a bit....new members that are not techs are usually sniffed out and something is said. The new member is shunned in some way.

But I don't think "is he/she a real tech, or an end user" was the cause of the antagonistic new member that caused the tension which produced this thread. It was more the attitude of that new member. I believe they were a legit tech in some form.

There is mention of proof of ownership of the business. In the forum rules, it mentions that the site is for computer technicians. I think the forum should stay open to technicians..even if they don't own the biz. IMO it really depletes the pool of resources and knowledge if the forum or any sub parts are really limited to owners only. The issue stems around personality of the member...and that personality could be in any type of member..biz owner, tech, or...poser.

Getting a "fiesty" thread that lasts a day or two or three isn't always bad. It will happens around forums everywhere. But ya know one thing about it? It generates traffic. And traffic is good for a forum..specifically for the forum owner(s).

From a management point of view...it's the behavior of a member over a long period of time that should count. Occasionally someone will get their panties in a bind over something, we're all human. But if it's consistently day after day...then perhaps something needs to be addressed, and their value to the forum overall needs to be examined.

The person that caused this thread....they were a fresh sign up, basically came in with guns blazing, and several members that are quick to say something did so. As the thread went on...we also saw something I mentioned....I mentioned "the forum self polices"....we saw a few more members jump in and help defend the other members that got in the scrap earlier.

Yeah some mild verbal attacks happened...some mud slinging...some mild name calling....we're all adults here, we should be able to handle that without losing sleep.

Cliff notes....tension happens, it didn't get that bad, we should realize it will pass...and we should realize it will happen again. It didn't get all THAT bad.....just some chest thumping and ruffled feathers.

 

[Screwloose]

Keep in mind the issue is about problem members. Even if we have some sort of seperation/verification, problem members will still be on the inside of that new group. The focus of these discussions should be getting problem members off the board entirely, regardless whether they are unverified/verified.

Maybe if there was a system where if a member is warned by a Mod ( after complaints by others and/or a thread closure ) and that warning is a strike.... 3 strikes and the member not allowed to post for awhile then after reinstatement if it happens again then they can be banned/restricted permamntly etc ...

just thinking out loud...

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Maybe if there was a system where if a member is warned by a Mod ( after complaints by others and/or a thread closure ) and that warning is a strike.... 3 strikes and the member not allowed to post for awhile then after reinstatement if it happens again then they can be banned/restricted permamntly etc ...

For a while we did "probation" periods at Speedguide.net....a few years ago when our forum was at its peak, we'd put some longstanding members that got out of hand on probation...a few days at first... a week or two next. Sort of a way of slapping a member on the hand without resorting to a full ban.

Mixed results. Some members said "screw it" and just left. Others needed a few probations and behaved...for a short while, eventually got unruly again. And for a few ....they eventually learned to control their e-anger.

 

[Martyn]

For a while we did "probation" periods at Speedguide.net....a few years ago when our forum was at its peak, we'd put some longstanding members that got out of hand on probation...a few days at first... a week or two next. Sort of a way of slapping a member on the hand without resorting to a full ban.

Mixed results. Some members said "screw it" and just left. Others needed a few probations and behaved...for a short while, eventually got unruly again. And for a few ....they eventually learned to control their e-anger.

This is part of the problem, new members are easy to deal with but existing members, many before my time here, can be a bit direct. The problem is when the 'direct' members have a pop the existing members know their personality and most don't react. Some new members do react and start the tit for tat off. I go off to work and return with a full scale, personal war going on Of course I still have pressing calls etc so sometimes I pull the out of hand thread and it's never seen again . It's not intentional but I have to earn a living and going through threads is cumbersome where you have to edit the posts(and the quotes) and maybe decide on an infraction, and who kicked it off, and who got personal, and... you get the picture. Maybe we need more mods I don't know, probably do with the timezones members are from as some days I wake up to the 'war'

So a summary of the situation from my point of view:

Spammers - easy to deal with, ban and delete the spam

New members asking basic questions with no real diagnostic - the situation often follows with remarks from long standing members that can cause issues. Maybe more gang up on the poster.

Assuming a mod is around:
A mod could lock the thread until they do more diagnostics(not practical)
We could all ignore it(not going to happen)
Maybe one member only request more information in a polite way(best option) and then no further input from anyone until they do. In other words ignore it.

Too many members get hot headed over things. Remember to only put in print what you would say to someones face.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

so sometimes I pull the out of hand thread and it's never seen again . It's not intentional but I have to earn a living and going through threads is cumbersome where you have to edit the posts(and the quotes) and maybe decide on an infraction, and who kicked it off, and who got personal, and... you get the picture. Maybe we need more mods I don't know, probably do with the timezones members are from as some days I wake up to the 'war'

Usually not a problem to just yank a thread...seen it before in other forums, we've done in ourselves over at SG.

Yeah, sometimes results in members asking "What happened to ___ thread?" Quick reply by mod of "Got out of hand so I yanked it" and close that thread...'nuff said. We actually have a "Deleted threads" forum down in the Staff only section only section...where we move the thread in question to. Stays there for proof. Or...if a staff member feels like it later on and eventual gets the time..it can be cleaned..and returned to the original forum.

 

[Martyn]

Usually not a problem to just yank a thread...seen it before in other forums, we've done in ourselves over at SG.

Yeah, sometimes results in members asking "What happened to ___ thread?" Quick reply by mod of "Got out of hand so I yanked it" and close that thread...'nuff said. We actually have a "Deleted threads" forum down in the Staff only section only section...where we move the thread in question to. Stays there for proof. Or...if a staff member feels like it later on and eventual gets the time..it can be cleaned..and returned to the original forum.

Yes we have the same where old threads live.