So how is the rollout of Windows 8 going?

[knc]

Since I have mostly business clients I won't be rolling Win8 for quite some time. I am expecting the elderly home users to get easily frustrated with it.

Any real world stories?

 

[4ycr]

none yet but with Christmas just around the corner, I might get some soon.

 

[altrenda]

Since I have mostly business clients I won't be rolling Win8 for quite some time. I am expecting the elderly home users to get easily frustrated with it.

Any more frustrated than trying to use an old clunky XP machine? Or learn to use an iPad? I had to teach several couples in a retirement complex how to use the iPad, and it was somewhat painful.

After using Win 8 exclusively for a couple of weeks, I forget that I am using it. Its not any harder than switching from Windows to Mac, and people seem to do that everyday. After reading posts here, I was expecting a much tougher time.

I've only set up about 20 machines, all non touch laptops. It takes about 10 to 15 minutes to demo the differences to a user and about 2 days for them to become comfortable. No one has asked to go back.

And, yes, it would have been better to have a non touch based interface, but it's really not that big a deal.

For techs, it seems, the learning curve is much steeper.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Any more frustrated than trying to use an old clunky XP machine? Or learn to use an iPad? I had to teach several couples in a retirement complex how to use the iPad, and it was somewhat painful.

After using Win 8 exclusively for a couple of weeks, I forget that I am using it. Its not any harder than switching from Windows to Mac, and people seem to do that everyday. After reading posts here, I was expecting a much tougher time.

I've only set up about 20 machines, all non touch laptops. It takes about 10 to 15 minutes to demo the differences to a user and about 2 days for them to become comfortable. No one has asked to go back.

And, yes, it would have been better to have a non touch based interface, but it's really not that big a deal.

For techs, it seems, the learning curve is much steeper.

It's not the elderly that is the issue. It's long time users of Windows that are used to how it works. I have clients that have refused to go to Windows 7, sticking with what they know Xp. Others make the jump but then turn off all the Aero effects using it in classic mode. Some of them did the same with Xp and turned off all the Luna themed effects.

Windows 8 offers great change for very little benefit. It isn't greatly easier to use just different and often removes functionality with no options to gain it back. It scales neither for the hardware it is on or the user in front of it. Junk.

 

[altrenda]

It's not the elderly that is the issue. It's long time users of Windows that are used to how it works. I have clients that have refused to go to Windows 7, sticking with what they know Xp. Others make the jump but then turn off all the Aero effects using it in classic mode. Some of them did the same with Xp and turned off all the Luna themed effects.

Windows 8 offers great change for very little benefit. It isn't greatly easier to use just different and often removes functionality with no options to gain it back. It scales neither for the hardware it is on or the user in front of it. Junk.

I don't disagree with anything you say except the last word. It isn't junk. it's just different. It works well when used properly.

Which functionality for users has been removed? It's designed for them, not us.

Whether we like it or not, customers are buying computers with Win 8 and there's money to be made servicing them. Just like there is money to be made from people using AOL desktop, which I run into every week.

You don't have to like it, but I see so many here not just disliking it but fighting it, almost taking it personally. It's an OS, not a religion. I decided to learn it to service customers who use it the best I can.

I did the same with OS X several years ago and it makes up a large part of my income, because many techs around don't know it.

 

[MobileTechie]

I'm coming around to the idea slowly.

I agree that for people who are not already habituated to another version that it's not hard to use at all. I think the Microsoft Account thing is a bit hard for people to get their heads around. In a way it would be better if they just had to get a MS account like you need an Apple one but NOT related to their existing email from say Yahoo or whatever as they immediate get the two confused.

It's also a bit clunky trying to get access to certain things - several steps to find the Off button, no way to add folders to Mail except by adding them to the email system it's mirroring (i.e. you have to add you folders in Yahoo Mail and then they appear in Mail). The lack of normal start button in Desktop mode seems bizarre - if you're going to include a legacy desktop mode then why make it hard to find the list of programs?

But if you use it as it's designed then it's really quite good. It's especially good on touch screens where you can make a page for your daily updating items like mail, news, sports, people etc and a page for media and a page for games and so on, just like you'd organise a phone.

I think businesses will be very cautious however because they don't really WANT a paradigm shift. That means learning curves and training etc.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Which functionality for users has been removed? It's designed for them, not us.

I have plenty of customers that I would describe as power users. They keep multiple windows open and make use of the complex functionality in the programs they use. Metro apps are watered down and simplistic apps. Which on a tablet makes some sense. Not a desktop. Especially those that use their PCs to create content and information. Photoshop users are not going to be in Metro. Heavy users of Office are not going to use Metro. The reams of clients that I have that use proprietary line of business apps are not going to use Metro. Even if there was a metro app they might like they will not use it because it's use dominates the GUI. Multitasking is NOT something just computer IT professionals do. Maybe for home users you have a point but not the bulk of MY client base. So yes it IS junk. It is bloatware. Features not going to be used and as worthless as the crap most OEMs pile on their PCs and we techs have to remove. SO I say again. Junk.

 

[ComputerPro]

We should always embrace and be thankful for any and every change from Microsoft as it ultimately makes us more money.

Call me crazy.... But from a business perspective:
Buggy software = lots of service calls.
Cheap components = replacements.
Confusing OS = training sessions.
Malware infections = lots of quick money.
My view is of course that of a business owner.

 

[altrenda]

I have plenty of customers that I would describe as power users. They keep multiple windows open and make use of the complex functionality in the programs they use. Metro apps are watered down and simplistic apps. Which on a tablet makes some sense. Not a desktop. Especially those that use their PCs to create content and information. Photoshop users are not going to be in Metro. Heavy users of Office are not going to use Metro. The reams of clients that I have that use proprietary line of business apps are not going to use Metro. Even if there was a metro app they might like they will not use it because it's use dominates the GUI. Multitasking is NOT something just computer IT professionals do. Maybe for home users you have a point but not the bulk of MY client base. So yes it IS junk. It is bloatware. Features not going to be used and as worthless as the crap most OEMs pile on their PCs and we techs have to remove. SO I say again. Junk.

How much time have you spent using 8 on a PC? Are you comparing it Windows 8 RT?

The Start Screen is just a launcher. Who says you have to use Metro apps?How much time do you spend on the Win 7 Desktop? Don't you spend your time using the applications, like Photoshop Office, and all those other apps which run just fine with 8. Multi tasking is still there, the taskbar with mouse hover preview, everything else that was in 7.

My clients are mainly Writers, Designers, Accountants, Architects and similar. They are heavy users of Photoshop, Word, Excel Final Draft, QuickBooks, etc. I don't see Win 8 getting in their way at all.

That being said , I tell my clients that its not worth upgrading to 8 from 7 and if they can buy a non touchscreen PC with 7 they probably should, but not to be afraid of 8.

 

[nlinecomputers]

We should always embrace and be thankful for any and every change from Microsoft as it ultimately makes us more money.

Call me crazy.... But from a business perspective:
Buggy software = lots of service calls.
Cheap components = replacements.
Confusing OS = training sessions.
Malware infections = lots of quick money.
My view is of course that of a business owner.

Not always. I don't have any business clients on vista. All mine skipped it which is what I think will happen with Windows 8. I will get business from clients wanting to find computers that still have Windows 7 installed. I expect to make a lot of money on that route.

 

[nlinecomputers]

How much time have you spent using 8 on a PC? Are you comparing it Windows 8 RT?

The Start Screen is just a launcher. Who says you have to use Metro apps?How much time do you spend on the Win 7 Desktop? Don't you spend your time using the applications, like Photoshop Office, and all those other apps which run just fine with 8. Multi tasking is still there, the taskbar with mouse hover preview, everything else that was in 7.

My clients are mainly Writers, Designers, Accountants, Architects and similar. They are heavy users of Photoshop, Word, Excel Final Draft, QuickBooks, etc. I don't see Win 8 getting in their way at all.

That being said , I tell my clients that its not worth upgrading to 8 from 7 and if they can buy a non touchscreen PC with 7 they probably should, but not to be afraid of 8.

All of that is there in the desktop. Except the start menu of course. But all you are doing is making my point. Metro is bloatware that even your clients avoid using so what is the point? To force adoption of a launcher that more awkward to use then the traditional start menu? Again what is the benefit? All you Windows 8 fanboys can't seem to articulate any real benefit to the GUI. Windows Vista and 7 has real advantages over Windows Xp in useability. I really don't see that with Windows 8.

 

[altrenda]

Windows 8 fanboys.! Hilarious.

 

[ComputerPro]

Yes true lol.

Not always. I don't have any business clients on vista. All mine skipped it which is what I think will happen with Windows 8. I will get business from clients wanting to find computers that still have Windows 7 installed. I expect to make a lot of money on that route.

Your right, but thinking in terms of a really good computer geek, employee, or customer but not like a business owner.

If we had to give back all the money made with Vista issues when it first was released....... OMG! I would be in some trouble lol.

I'm assuming your either a smaller shop or operating out of your home based on your comment "all my business clients skipped it" so your opinion is perfectly normal based on your reference point. If I'm assuming wrong then sorry I'm just saying I would like to see you make money on the windows 7 computers you mentioned, AND make MORE money from Vista related issues and now windows 8 related issues.

When it comes to Microsoft releasing new stuff.... Never look a gift horse in the mouth, trust me

Take care,

Terry Moon
Computer Pro Inc
http://computerpro1.com

 

[nlinecomputers]

Your right, but thinking in terms of a really good computer geek, employee, or customer but not like a business owner.

If we had to give back all the money made with Vista issues when it first was released....... OMG! I would be in some trouble lol.

I'm assuming your either a smaller shop or operating out of your home based on your comment "all my business clients skipped it" so your opinion is perfectly normal based on your reference point. If I'm assuming wrong then sorry I'm just saying I would like to see you make money on the windows 7 computers you mentioned, AND make MORE money from Vista related issues and now windows 8 related issues.

When it comes to Microsoft releasing new stuff.... Never look a gift horse in the mouth, trust me

Take care,

Terry Moon
Computer Pro Inc
http://computerpro1.com

I operate out of my home but none of my business clients got Vista. I had a few residential clients that did but I've dropped residential work since then. It's not a big deal. Vista with SP2 is as strong an OS as Windows 7 is. And personally I never found much issue with it. But I didn't recommend it mostly because that is what I was expected to do. It became quickly obvious that Vista had serious baggage associated with it, most of it undeserved but I would be a fool to not see it. Clients would ask me about it and it was obvious it was a barometer test. If you didn't say that Vista sucked then you must not be a good tech. It was a totally invalid way to test you but none the less it was there. How Windows 8 will be perceived isn't as clear to me. Most of my clients don't seem to care as far as I can tell one way or the other.

 

[taysr]

I've had to install it for a few customers, all i did for those that hated the interface was install classic shell... configure to boot straight to desktop and add the start button/menu.

Classic shell is now also on the ninite list which is handy.



I find most people believe if a tech talks them out of new technology the customer more often than not thinks it's because the tech is incapable of supporting it.

 

[phaZed]

I find most people believe if a tech talks them out of new technology the customer more often than not thinks it's because the tech is incapable of supporting it.

I don't agree. If a customer believes that, it is because the tech didn't explain the situation correctly or has a weak/invalid point of view. I have worked with many technology retailers in my younger years, and new tech is not for everyone or even anyone. A customer that understands why new tech X-product is not for them will appreciate your honesty and will remember you for not selling them something they didn't need/want (even if they think they did).

I find that (In the case of Windows 8) all you have to do is let the customer decide. Half of my customers that ask about it have never seen or touched Windows 8, they only saw some groupies dancing around with "those tablets with the colored keyboards". Once I pull out a laptop with Windows 8 and let them give it a go the answer is "Oh, nevermind, I didn't know..."

The problem I see with Windows 8 is that is doesn't really seem to improve upon an existing problem that needed improving in the first place. Microsoft has so much invested in this platform that started with Nokia and Windows Phone/penetrating the mobile market that they are forgetting about their existing user base. Windows phone: Failure. Nokia lost over a Billion dollars last quarter with revenues falling 19%, selling 2.9 million Lumia smartphones. Fail. The market is speaking... and it is saying hell no to Windows Phone UI as it is now. Microsoft's answer? Let's make our flagship OS the same! http://www.jagsreport.com/2012/12/nokia-sees-smartphone-sales-plummet-nyse-nok/

Meanwhile, Microsoft is out touting it sold 40 million copies of Win8, but wait, that's mostly to the OEM's, not the public. It's seen a slower or same adoption rate of 1% during the first month that the "problem and perception plagued" Vista saw in it's first month (horrible). Windows device sales are down 21% YoY with the Win8 release on Oct 26th.

Dell and Samsung are seeing weak demand.
Asus's CFO:
demand for its touchscreen PCs was low, and said, "Demand for Windows 8 is not that good right now."

Then you have Surface Pro that will be hitting the streets in January at $900. 64GB of storage and half the battery life of current Ultrabooks and tablets, keyboard is $100 extra. No chance this makes any big sales anytime soon.. and MS knows it as it cuts it's Surface Tablet orders in half to a measly 2 million units. If you want to run a business into the ground, this is a good way to start - Stop listening to your user base throughout the entire development process from user to developer... push everyone away to your competitors and offer a line of inferior products for more money all while shunning your hardware vendors of 20 years.

So, tell me, why should a customer think the tech is "incapable of supporting it" when failure of a large degree is almost assured on the part of the producer? If I was told that the HP Touchpad was going to be "the next big thing" by a Tech... then I would be really ******.

 

[mr m]

The problem I see with Windows 8 is that is doesn't really seem to improve upon an existing problem that needed improving in the first place.

Bingo! MS is trying to reinvent the wheel because of Appleization. Don't abandon the mouse/kybd/start button users because you're afraid of losing users to tablets. They have the Surface for that.

I wandered into Best Buy to ask a salesperson how the Win 8 PC's are selling. He looked at his shoes, looked over his shoulder for the boss and them just smiled. That bad, I said.

MS can claim 40 million Win 8 licenses but they are not fooling any of us or the media. $40 upgrades speak volumes.

I'd bet Win 8 SP1 will bring back the option of the Start button.

 

[glricht]

I've had to install it for a few customers, all i did for those that hated the interface was install classic shell... configure to boot straight to desktop and add the start button/menu.

Similar experience. I've done about a dozen or so Win 8 installs. On every single one, I've ended up installing classic shell and configuring to boot up to the desktop. This allows the customer to at least use the PC right away and gradually get used to the start screen.

p.s. I personally like the look and functionality of Start8 better than Classic Shell, but Classic gets installed because it's free.

 

[Tekguy]

p.s. I personally like the look and functionality of Start8 better than Classic Shell, but Classic gets installed because it's free.

I agree the Classic Shell Start Button is silly looking, but Classic Shell let's you change the icon. Go to this website http://www.askvg.com/download-classic-shell-skin-to-get-windows-7-look-like-start-menu-and-start-button-in-windows-8/ & download the Windows 7 Skin for Classic Shell .Zip file. Extract the Start_Button PNG file inside the zip file. Then just open Classic Shell & change the Start Button using this PNG file. I suppose you could change the skin also, but I was just interested in changing the Start Button.

 

[itech88]

Bingo! MS is trying to reinvent the wheel because of Appleization. Don't abandon the mouse/kybd/start button users because you're afraid of losing users to tablets. They have the Surface for that.

I wandered into Best Buy to ask a salesperson how the Win 8 PC's are selling. He looked at his shoes, looked over his shoulder for the boss and them just smiled. That bad, I said.

MS can claim 40 million Win 8 licenses but they are not fooling any of us or the media. $40 upgrades speak volumes.

I'd bet Win 8 SP1 will bring back the option of the Start button.

And i wonder how many of these pc's that are sold with win 8 pro are doing the win 7 downgrade? All new laptops that we have received and deployed that have win 8 pro on them we downgrade to win 7.