Server for small local business, which one to get?

[d3v]

Also can that Lenovo TS140 run an SSD drive for WIndows Server 2012 operating system, then have the x2 1TB drives in RAID1 for the data?

The initial 4 desktop "clients" will all be running Windows 7 Pro, adding two more client computers in the future. The Lenovo server itself will be running MS server 2012R2. Is it true that each client PC requires some sort of license to connect to a server running MS Server 2012R2? If so how does this license work, is it a piece of software or what?

All the equipment has been ordered and I will start work on it mid-sept. The office has been cabled up already. I think the first thing I will do is label all the cables, so I'll need an RJ45 tester and some tape and a sharpie pen.

As for setting up the server I will be learning on the job as I havn't got a clue!
I hope that d-link smart switch will just plug and play without having to mess with it's settings, I'd rather just have to deal with the server setup!

As for routers, at the moment the office has a very cheap <£20 netgear, does this matter or should we be using something more substantial like £50+ ?


And how would the mobile client PC's VPN to the server? What software is required, is it built-in to Windows 7 Pro? Is it easy to setup?

 

[seedubya]

Your server RAID config should really be OS-RAID 1 and then a DATA-RAID 5. Considering your cost restrictions, this is cheaper than a RAID 10 in regards to available space. My .02.

I would have said the same at one stage but now I just go for One Big Raid 10

 

[TurricanII]

When proposing a server I typically want it to work for four or five years. Spending £2000 for proper kit means £33 per month over five years. It's not worth cutting costs when it comes to servers upon which a busy business needs to rely. I have seen a few businesses run HP Proliants for 8/9 years if you really want to eek out the value, but the servers did fail in the end..

The RAID5 problem is that the drives are now more often 600GB/900GB SAS or 1Tb + SATA, and there is a much greater chance that a read error will occur on a large drive than there was back when 146Gb was king. URE's will stop your RAID rebuild at best and corrupt the server/require a rebuild at worst.. I have seen two of these problems, both on HP Proliant hardware with SAS drives. This is also why you should schedule the disk swap carefully, e.g. on a Friday afternoon so you have the weekend to recover if needed.

 

[Slaters Kustum Machines]

As for setting up the server I will be learning on the job as I havn't got a clue!

Either sign up for Microsoft Action Pack, there are substantial discounts available or go download a trial of the Server OS you are going to use and practice installing it a few times before the actual setup. You can use a desktop, laptop, or virtual machine. Just get something to practice with. It will really help when setting up the real thing in a couple weeks.

 

[SAFCasper]

We have a couple TS140's in operation (all between 4-8 users). One runs an SQL database for estate agent software along with being the DC/DNS/DHCP/File/Print etc for 4 users. Never had any performance issues with it.

Usually up the memory and swap drives out for WD Velociraptors (10K SATA). I've said this before, but it amazes me how often these drives are overlooked on budget servers. Relatively cheap, 10K spindle speed and reliability to match other enterprise SATA drives (1.4m hours MTBF).

As for a router - we tend to stick with Draytek purely for their reliability. May not have all the latest features and a flashy GUI but they just work... and keep working. Very rarely have to reboot one due to an issue.

 

[d3v]

Either sign up for Microsoft Action Pack, there are substantial discounts available or go download a trial of the Server OS you are going to use and practice installing it a few times before the actual setup. You can use a desktop, laptop, or virtual machine. Just get something to practice with. It will really help when setting up the real thing in a couple weeks.

Thanks I shall start this today! I have one desktop PC and one laptop at home. Would this be enough to simulate/practice setting up a small office server network, or should I look for an extra laptop or two?
I'm going to use Server 2012R2 in a virtual machine on my desktop.

We have a couple TS140's in operation (all between 4-8 users). One runs an SQL database for estate agent software along with being the DC/DNS/DHCP/File/Print etc for 4 users. Never had any performance issues with it.

Usually up the memory and swap drives out for WD Velociraptors (10K SATA). I've said this before, but it amazes me how often these drives are overlooked on budget servers. Relatively cheap, 10K spindle speed and reliability to match other enterprise SATA drives (1.4m hours MTBF).

As for a router - we tend to stick with Draytek purely for their reliability. May not have all the latest features and a flashy GUI but they just work... and keep working. Very rarely have to reboot one due to an issue.

Great to hear I mad a good choice on server model!
The 10k velociratprs look great, but since the TS140 already comes with a 1tb 7.2k SATA drive I really had to just buy an extra identical one to get a RAID 1 setup. In the future I can always clone over to a pair of WD10k velocicroptors.

I already bought 8g extra RAM to bring the TS140 up to 12gb.

I'll check out the Draytek,s thanks.
Can anyone plz let me know if that 24-port d-line switch is overkill or just right for the job?

Also, would it be ok to have just a single SSD drive for the Server 2012R2 operating system, isn't x2 SSD drives in RAID1 overkill or just a good solid safety measure/precaution?

 

[d3v]

Instead of a switch + router, does anyone know if there exists a box that is both combined that has at least 10 gigabit ethernet ports? If so can you link me with recommendations, thanks in advance.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Used to be Cisco RV016 was a router with a larger built in switch. But you're better off keeping firewall and switch separate.
I prefer HP ProCurve switches....I have also been using Ubiquiti switches more and more lately.
We try to use UTM firewalls for businesses, probably above your budget ...Ubiquiti makes good fast stable routers also.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Great to hear I mad a good choice on server model!
The 10k velociratprs look great, but since the TS140 already comes with a 1tb 7.2k SATA drive I really had to just buy an extra identical one to get a RAID 1 setup. In the future I can always clone over to a pair of WD10k velocicroptors.

That stock 1 TB drive is probably just an 80 dollar hard drive. In the grand scheme of a server project, length of service, performance...it's sooo much better to toss it and replace with a pair of raptors.
Clients don't deserve to be punished and suffer with 7200rpm drives in a server.

 

[d3v]

Used to be Cisco RV016 was a router with a larger built in switch. But you're better off keeping firewall and switch separate.
I prefer HP ProCurve switches....I have also been using Ubiquiti switches more and more lately.
We try to use UTM firewalls for businesses, probably above your budget ...Ubiquiti makes good fast stable routers also.

Do you know if a modem/router/switch combination that will work with a BT ADSL line, that is also wifi enabled, exists and if so please can you link me!

That stock 1 TB drive is probably just an 80 dollar hard drive. In the grand scheme of a server project, length of service, performance...it's sooo much better to toss it and replace with a pair of raptors.
Clients don't deserve to be punished and suffer with 7200rpm drives in a server.

Yep I'm currently asking serverdirect to change my order to cancel the additional 1tb 7.2k drive and asking them if it's possible to remove the 1tb 7.2k from inside the server and replace both with a pair of 10k velocicraptors.

 

[Mick]

Do you know if a modem/router/switch combination that will work with a BT ADSL line, that is also wifi enabled, exists and if so please can you link me!

I guess there must be some about, but I wouldn't go that route. Separate switch and modem/router is the better option. The switch you mentioned earlier should do you, although it is a managed switch and you did say you didn't want to be fiddling with settings...OTOH, once you've set it up, you shouldn't really need to touch it from then on. Oh - and +1 for Draytek, although the current BT Business 'hub' that it sounds as though you should have isn't bad and will also support fibre BB if that's in the mix.

 

[d3v]

just emailed the business owner a final shopping list. In total, the server + it's extra bits and the stuff below came to under £1600, not bad don't you think!

x2 £255 Dell Vostro 3900 desktop computer towers £510 total. I figure these are good enough spec, no point buying i5 equipped desktops just for outlook/sage!
x2 £60 AOC 22" monitors £120 total
x2 £23 Logitech wireless keyboard & mouse sets £46 total
X2 £49 Samsung 120gb solid state drives £98 total (one for the server, one to upgrade his business laptop with or may use both as RAID1 inside server, but seems like a waste to do this... thoughts?)
X1 £103 D-Link 26 port ethernet switch £103 total
£877 grand total.

 

[marley1]

I think you will find alot of users not recommending that approach. But your client!

My minimum build for small clients is:
Dell T20 server with Xeon upgraded to 3 year warranty. I put 2 500gb or 1tb SSD in raid 1. Server 2012 R2 edition.

Workstations are i5 with SSD

Gigabit switch and some router with external wifi

All on battery backup
Server with image based backup

Always domain

 

[Slaters Kustum Machines]

just emailed the business owner a final shopping list. In total, the server + it's extra bits and the stuff below came to under £1600, not bad don't you think!

x2 £255 Dell Vostro 3900 desktop computer towers £510 total. I figure these are good enough spec, no point buying i5 equipped desktops just for outlook/sage!
x2 £60 AOC 22" monitors £120 total
x2 £23 Logitech wireless keyboard & mouse sets £46 total
X2 £49 Samsung 120gb solid state drives £98 total (one for the server, one to upgrade his business laptop with or may use both as RAID1 inside server, but seems like a waste to do this... thoughts?)We take the YeOldeStoneCat approach. Real server or no server. Proper RAID controller, proper hard drives, proper warranty. I know it can be hard to make that hard line of it needs to be this equipment, but it's so much easier to support long term that way. We also do i5 systems with 8 GB of RAM as our minimum, with 3 year NBD onsite warranty. You will hate working on under specced machines just as the client will. Get set up with one or more of the big 3 vendors and sell new business grade systems.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Do you know if a modem/router/switch combination that will work with a BT ADSL line, that is also wifi enabled, exists and if so please can you link me!

.

I never had to work with BT..I'm in the States...so I have no idea what router would work well. I'd assume that BTs CPE gateway can be reconfigured to bridged mode and you can use any standard router with it...but I'm just assuming that.

 

[d3v]

I've decided I'm just gonna go with the equipment that's been purchased and go from there!
I'm running Server 2012R2 standard in VMware and having a go with all the settings, and watching this excellent basic server setup video guide series on youtube and it all seems a lot more sensible than it did 3 years ago when I attempted to learn this stuff and setup a similar small office, and failed miserably!

Can't wait for the gear to arrive and get it all setup!

 

[Mick]

I don't see a mention of a router in your shopping list - nor a UPS?

 

[d3v]

Yep I'm going to use the existing router and see how that goes. As for UPS what kind of money would you recommend spending on one?

 

[Mick]

As much as you can get away with! Basically, with these gizmos, you tend to get what you pay for. You want something from a 'name' manufacturer and also check it has enough inputs etc for all the devices you'll want to connect - either now or in the future. That said, be looking to pay somewhere around 150 - 200 GBP for the type of installation you're planning. APC and Cyberpower both make good stuff, but there are others about. I'm not sure if your customer has - or is planning to get - fibre broadband, but if so note that you will need a VDSL modem which, from the sound of it, your cheapo Netgear probably isn't.

 

[d3v]

Thanks for the heads up on the VDSL modems, I'll ask him about fibre broadband availability in his area, or do you know of a postcode checker online that can tell me?