Restalling Operating Systems

[0ldfart]

Quoted from Bryce's intro text:

We do not support end users looking for free technical help on these forums. This forum is for either want to be, soon to be or full blown Computer Technicians.

I dont see anything here about new users having to be highly skilled.

Yes its a n00b question

But thats the point of a Forum, isnt it? More experienced users helping those with less technical knowledge?

I think it would be fairer to discern end-users from new techs. OP is stating he's a tech, did the right thing and posted an intro with details of his experience

I've been a geek for a decade now and after spending countless hours fixing family and friends computers, laptops etcera and working part time in an IT repair shop I figured I might aswell do some PC repair myself as a side business.

So in actual fact he does meet the specifications for membership of the board and has every right to ask the question.

I would have thought the decent thing would be to provide respectful answers and to help him on his way as he develops his skill as a new technician.

 

[Corbin]

Oldfart is correct, to be honest how many non techs even know what a serial number is, or what the OS is, or the difference from the CPU and the Case. Sorry op. We all began at some time just because some people don't RTFM doent mean we should hate just direct. I mean I have had a computer since I was 5 now I'm 22, I still remember booting to A:\win95 with a floppy, just to play my indiana jones game. Shoot I still remember playing on macs before they jumped. I'm sure I was pesky with peopel backthen just like new members.

 

[TechguyUK]

I suspect that one of the main frustrations for the regulars/old timers is the constant flow of new threads from new members asking the same old questions when the answers to such questions can easily be found with a little logic and ingenuity (and a quick forum or www search) which is surely what makes a good tech in the first place?

In my opinion, these repeat/basic questions simply devalue the forums, especially if asked in the wrong section.

As one old-timer quotes…“Real techs use google to solve many problems, you get more done faster and ask less basic questions in the forum. Learn it, know it, live it”

 

[0ldfart]

I suspect that one of the main frustrations for the regulars/old timers is the constant flow of new threads from new members asking the same old questions when the answers to such questions can easily be found with a little logic and ingenuity (and a quick forum or www search) which is surely what makes a good tech in the first place?

Fair enough

IMO the issue in this thread appears to be how it was dealt with, which, (as we appear to be having a conversation now about netiquette) probably doesn't value-add to the Forum either.

 

[anonymous Mac Tech]

I suspect that one of the main frustrations for the regulars/old timers is the constant flow of new threads from new members asking the same old questions when the answers to such questions can easily be found with a little logic and ingenuity (and a quick forum or www search) which is surely what makes a good tech in the first place?

In my opinion, these repeat/basic questions simply devalue the forums, especially if asked in the wrong section.

As one old-timer quotes…“Real techs use google to solve many problems, you get more done faster and ask less basic questions in the forum. Learn it, know it, live it”

Different thread with the same age old concerns with different techs now speaking up. Its the life cycle of the forum. It seems like this forum is knowledge capped is so many ways. Techs grow but the forums never do. Many reach a point where they can only read so many posts about basic questions and feel you need to troll. The techs speaking up now will be labeled "elitists" like I once was, and many techs come and gone have been labeled. Then you hit the knowledge cap where you either only post occasionally, post rarely, or like I suspect happened with NYJimbo, just up and leave altogether. This forum is about numbers over quality of content as it has been for a while. Nobody speaking up is going to change this, even if you feel you contribute quit a bit. The so-called "elitists" here will realize they are numbers as well and will be gladly traded for two techs of much lesser quality to keep the numbers rolling upwards. I'm actually surprised this thread is still open and has not been "cleaned up" yet by the mods.

 

[bscs]

I have found that most people using pirate copy's of windows are ether to cheap to hire me to fix there computers or don't need my services anyway.

One person gave me a burned cd with Windows on it and told me "its a site license". They only have 3 computers. Thought that was quite funny.

I think most people don't understand licensing.

 

[tackify]

What I think set some regulars off in this thread is that the OP asked a question that any working tech would know only had one obvious answer: if the customer doesn't have original install disks, doesn't have a working recovery partition or recovery disks, and if the product key can't be read with software designed for such, then of course the customer needs to buy Windows. It's obvious. What else could be done at no cost short of converting the customer to Linux?

If the OP simply phrased his question poorly and was asking if there were ways to read a product key from an installed system (as Vicenarian suggested might have been his intent), a little poking around on Google would have provided his answer very quickly. And again, it seems strange for a working tech not to know something like this already.

But here's the thing. The OP is trying to work as a tech, and he had a question he wanted an answer to. Completely acceptable under the premise of this forum.

So (and I propose this hesitantly based on my own meager post count), I wonder if there would not be a place for a "New Technicians" section in the forum where more inexperienced techs can ask questions. In such a section, a nube could ask question without fear of provoking exasperation in some longtime members. Their good questions, as well as ones that might seem silly or obvious to experienced techs, could be dealt with by those interested and the whole section ignored by those not.

Obviously posting to the "New Technicians" section would be voluntary, but if the section was promoted as a great resource having no stigma attached to it, I think it would be used. And if a question appeared elsewhere that seemed a better fit for the "New Technicians" section, it could be moved to it.

Sure, this system of moving posts to the "New Technicians" section would risk insult to some new posters, but I think it seems a reasonable means to maintain the technical integrity of other sections of the forum.

 

[Elemdee]

So (and I propose this hesitantly based on my own meager post count), I wonder if there would not be a place for a "New Technicians" section in the forum where more inexperienced techs can ask questions. In such a section, a nube could ask question without fear of provoking exasperation in some longtime members. Their good questions, as well as ones that might seem silly or obvious to experienced techs, could be dealt with by those interested and the whole section ignored by those not.

Obviously posting to the "New Technicians" section would be voluntary, but if the section was promoted as great resource having no stigma attached to it, I think it would be used. And if a question appeared elsewhere that seemed a better fit for the "New Technicians" section, it could be moved to it.

Sure, this system of moving posts to the "New Technicians" section would risk insult to some new posters, but I think it seems a reasonable means to maintain the technical integrity of other sections of the forum.

Excellent idea.



filler

 

[0ldfart]

So (and I propose this hesitantly based on my own meager post count), I wonder if there would not be a place for a "New Technicians" section in the forum where more inexperienced techs can ask questions. In such a section, a nube could ask question without fear of provoking exasperation in some longtime members. Their good questions, as well as ones that might seem silly or obvious to experienced techs, could be dealt with by those interested and the whole section ignored by those not.

Obviously posting to the "New Technicians" section would be voluntary, but if the section was promoted as great resource having no stigma attached to it, I think it would be used. And if a question appeared elsewhere that seemed a better fit for the "New Technicians" section, it could be moved to it.

Sure, this system of moving posts to the "New Technicians" section would risk insult to some new posters, but I think it seems a reasonable means to maintain the technical integrity of other sections of the forum.

I think thats a really good idea. I moderate on the Mediaportal Forum. We have a 'Newcomers" section specifically for new users and it works very well. Generally speaking, people new to the Forum will post their queries there until they get their sea-legs, and there are a number of senior members who happily browse and assist in that section to answer questions and provide support. Once people accustomed to the software and the culture of the Forum, they migrate to the other sections. It addresses exactly the concer discussed above about new people asking the same questions over and over. Yes the questions are asked ad-nausem, but they are generally confined to this section.

 

[SY0385]

If your so bothered by simple questions---just don't answer! There is no need to complain and make people feel bad.

 

[Xander]

If your so bothered by simple questions---just don't answer! There is no need to complain and make people feel bad.

You're missing a major point, "Sy". This isn't supposed to be a board where the 'simple questions' get asked; it's supposed to be for those who have enough knowledge to be techs or, at least, be on their way to that status.
If you're looking for a place for simple questions, you might try Yahoo Answers or some more general open forum. Technibble, by its own definitions, isn't an open forum.

 

[MobileTechie]

It's a tricky one really. We all startoff not knowing enough unless we were lucky enough to have worked in an ITsupport role beforehand. And even then, some info on licencing just doesn't come up. You could work in a major corp for years, be very technically adept and you could still not now this.

However on the other side: there are a lot of totally clueless techs out there who not only do not know the basics but don't appear to have the sense to find out - and one cannot help but be irritated by thinking of them taking business, giving the industry a bad name, driving down prices and the expectations of customers. I am personally quite depressed by the lack of skill and particularly the lack of logical problem solving skills in the industry. It seems most of us just try random things until something works. I hear the techs speaking on Podnutz and they say stupid things like "when I get a BSOD I always like to try chkdsk" and I think "eh? when even when the error code points to something totally different?". And quite often people have been asked what the logs say and it's clear the OP never even though to check them because they were busy trying random "fixes" they read on google in the hope one worked.

From a forum point of view, I agree that the lifecycle seems to be that the more experience people get bored and leave taking their experience with them. I started off on here asking a few stupid questions on both technical and business matters and I'm already starting to feel the urge to make posts that would be considered elitist. In fact I would have thought them elitist myself a while back. Am I a hypocrite now or was I just ignorant then. Probably both I imagine.

I think something should be done to maintain the forum's usefulness to people at all levels. Maybe a senior forum based not just on how many posts (some newbies post at an astonishing rate) but on evidence of a business website or mabe even invitational or by request or something?

 

[Elemdee]

I hear the techs speaking on Podnutz and they say stupid things like "when I get a BSOD I always like to try chkdsk" and I think "eh?

Someone on TN just posted that recently lol.

I think something should be done to maintain the forum's usefulness to people at all levels. Maybe a senior forum based not just on how many posts (some newbies post at an astonishing rate) but on evidence of a business website or mabe even invitational or by request or something?

I think no matter how many times this has been suggested/requested, it seems that it will never happen. I'd love to know why. I guess Bryce doesn't want to be like peeceebiz dot org because apparently there is some history there but as I see it, peecee isn't holding a grudge. Meh, I'm not involved with all of that so I won't comment further. Would just like to see a beginner forum so we can help those who have basic questions and a senior forum for business owners.

 

[AustinB]

...there are a lot of totally clueless techs out there who not only do not know the basics but don't appear to have the sense to find out - and one cannot help but be irritated by thinking of them taking business, giving the industry a bad name, driving down prices and the expectations of customers. I am personally quite depressed by the lack of skill and particularly the lack of logical problem solving skills in the industry.

Even as someone new to the forum, I agree with this. I start reading an issue like this one and start to cringe. It reminds me of all those times I had to fix other techs' "fixes." If you asked them, they all had years of experience, graduated from a tech school, and had several different certifications. But then they'd mess up and now that customer figures the issue is hopeless and can't be fixed so they don't even bother asking for help anymore. That, or they just don't trust techs anymore. There have been many, many times where I've heard, "Yeah, well the last guy couldn't fix it and he graduated from ITT!" 10 minutes later, "How did you do that?!" (this is assuming they weren't too fed up to give me a chance).

Maybe the threshold should be that any time you feel it necessary to link to LMGTFY, then the person is beyond help, as a tech anyways.

Would just like to see a beginner forum so we can help those who have basic questions and a senior forum for business owners.

Or maybe link to a designated end-user type forum, like GeeksToGo or TechGuy.

 

[iptech]

there are a lot of totally clueless techs out there who not only do not know the basics but don't appear to have the sense to find out - and one cannot help but be irritated by thinking of them taking business, giving the industry a bad name, driving down prices and the expectations of customers. I am personally quite depressed by the lack of skill and particularly the lack of logical problem solving skills in the industry. It seems most of us just try random things until something works.

+1

How often do we see clueless individuals desperately trying to illicit idiot-proof answers on Technibble? I've stayed out of this thread up till now, when I say the title "Restalling Operating Systems" I immediately thought it was from some hapless individual who's misheard heard others who use nuke'n'pave as a sure-fire way to 'repair' computers for easy cash.

The frustrations felt buy many on here are not about beginners, it's about those who think they can blag their way through this business without bothering to learn anything through application & study.

 

[Rasilun]

It's a tricky one really. We all startoff not knowing enough unless we were lucky enough to have worked in an ITsupport role beforehand. And even then, some info on licencing just doesn't come up. You could work in a major corp for years, be very technically adept and you could still not now this.

I'm new to this forum and was absolutely amazed when I found this How To Start A Computer Business. Actually, I was more thrilled when I saw the site had and active forum. I've worked on a Tier 3 helpdesk for just over 5 years for a company I wish I could say out loud to help the credibility along but... oh well. Before that I did Tier 1 helpdesk for a small company and before that did hardware repair on elevator computers for many years. I've never came across a problem that wasn't fixable and have never had to tell anyone "I can't fix it". But honestly, given that background even when I got laid off and decided to go the route I've taken now I had to stop and ask myself the exact same question the OP asked here.

However, my resolution was a word document and some google searching to create my own process on how to re-install OS's with original keys or identifying recovery partitions/disks. All of which when I was done with my paper it all seemed common sense and easy so I dought I will ever have to open it again. Most of which I knew already but I've never installed any "Home" versions of anything and have certainly not done it dozens of times a month like most of you.

To be honest, I felt like a Nublet posting this. I also felt kind of bad like I wasted peoples time because I did everything everyone said and pretty much before they even posted it. I've been reading randomly through the forums for a few days now just to get familiar with everyone and how the forum flows.

Anyways... I could talk forever. I guess what I'm saying is I agree with the above comment and I would hate to see it become difficult to use these forums for the purpose they are described as of now. I do see the tenured peoples point of view though.

 

[AustinB]

See, that's the difference, you hit Google first and got all you needed to know, then documented it in a word file.

And your "n00b" post didn't seem noobish at all to me. You seem to know how to troubleshoot properly, but you were just surprised by that issue and reached out for help. No one seemed to mind helping there because you were on the same level as they were and you appear to know what you're doing. I hate those kind of issues, by the way, where the slots are either bad or just sensitive.

 

[Rasilun]

I hate those kind of issues, by the way, where the slots are either bad or just sensitive.

Unfortunately I'm not quite sure and probably will never find out exactly. They classified it faulty when I contacted them and are just RMAing it. I hate not finding out what the real problem was. haha