Replacing riveted laptop kboards

[Rigo]

Contemplating replacing faulty or liquid affected kboards only.
Just about all new laptops are now coming out with palmrest/kboard assemblies, and some of these assemblies in some cases are not available whilst there are sellers on eBay who offer just the kboards.
After breaking the plastic rivets and ripping off the damaged kboard one is supposed to use some micro screws which are not self tapping to affix the replacement to the plastic frame.
That would require pre-drilling the spots before attempting to screw down those micro screws I guess.
Unless I'm going about it the wrong way.
Would make the job easier if there existed some plastic welding system to rebuild these rivets rather the time consuming task of pre-drilling, etc.
From those who are doing these kboards replacements, how do you go about it please?

 

[Diggs]

I've always bought the top shell assembly complete and backed away from trying to replace the keyboard itself on these models. The one I almost did I was going to grind off the plastic studs with a Dremel tool sander and then put a drop of epoxy or thick super glue on each one to secure the new keyboard back in place. In the end I found an assembly with it already installed.

 

[HCHTech]

We only replace the top plate/keyboard assembly as well. Too fiddly and lack of a reliable procedure to do it otherwise.

 

[Markverhyden]

I'm with @Diggs and @HCHTech on this. Complete top assembly is the best method for so many reasons. That being said if top assemblies are not available but kb is then it's a quandry. If I ran into that I'd first explain to the customer the situation and what the only choice is. No guarantee of longevity.

I'd start with shearing off the tops of each of the weld spots. I'd then use some coarse sandpaper, say 100-150 grit, then sand each spot. Then using fine paper, say 180-220 grit, sand the top and bottom holes on the kb frame. Put the kb in place and then use JB Plastic Weld. I'm that or an equivalent is available down under.

 

[britechguy]

Having actually done this sort of "keyboard only" repair on my own computer myself, I do not recommend it.

One of the biggest problems is that the keyboard itself does not always (or frequently, I've done more than one, and won't do more) does not generally just "drop in and lie perfectly flat" in the remainder of the top unit. Trying to get it reaffixed such that the keys are in a lovely perfectly level and flat configuration is no small feat. It generally requires weighting the keyboard, with the top unit suspended such that the keys are popping through in mid-air, and working in sections.

I've never seen a drop in and glue all the posts at once approach have a result that looks anywhere near to normal when looking at the keyboard. The keyboard still generally works fine, but it looks like a dog's breakfast with keys at differing heights depending on how that keyboard twisted (and the twisting needs only be very, very slight) when it was laying on the posts to which it's now affixed.

 

[ThatPlace928]

Replacing entire palmrests IS the best way to go. My son has done a couple of those where they have plastic studs holding the keyboard in and they are almost never right, no matter what you do. Give me a drop in keyboard anytime.

 

[britechguy]

Give me a drop in keyboard anytime.

Why these ever ceased to be the norm, on all laptops, I will never understand. It is well known that keyboard failure on laptops is just incredibly common, and that they will likely need to be replaced on a great many of them.

I've always thought the "top assembly" was the grossest sort of money-making scheme when the "correct alternative" predated it.

 

[ThatPlace928]

Why these ever ceased to be the norm, on all laptops, I will never understand. It is well known that keyboard failure on laptops is just incredibly common.....

My thoughts, exactly. Neither my son nor I will attempt keyboards with plastic studs anymore. We explain to the customer why it's necessary and they don't really understand either, unless they attempt a replacement themselves. Palmrests with keyboard built in are more expensive. Must be going after the money but why? I'd hate to be on the assembly line for this one...... lol

 

[britechguy]

I'd hate to be on the assembly line for this one....

I doubt that any human is, at least for the "insert the keyboard into the top assembly and fuse it to it" step. That whole process would be best achieved by a robot doing it, including being able to apply the necessary pressure to keep the keyboard flat while the plastic posts are melted so that "mushroom caps" hold the entire keyboard in place.

 

[Philippe]

Would make the job easier if there existed some plastic welding system to rebuild these rivets

If you * really * have to, use a soldering iron with temperature control.
Lower the temperature and find some ABS plastic. Then you can melt (and mix) this plastic on top of the remaining "stems" from the keyboard.
It'll work, but all other methods above are better

 

[britechguy]

would be best achieved by a robot doing it,

I normally don't follow-up to myself, but one thing that I did not mention, and that I personally hate in practice, but understand, is that virtually any physical product you can name today is designed with "ease of manufacture," and usually robotic manufacture, in mind. That would be OK if any consideration of "ease of maintenance and repair" were also part of the mix, but it's abundantly clear that it's not.

We all know, and the various manufacturers know this better than any one of us do, because they study it, that certain parts of certain products are service items, very likely to need servicing, while others are not. Using an automobile as an example, tires, oil, and other fluids are routine service items, and designs need to make the actual changing of same as easy as possible. These days, with iridium and ruthenium tipped electrodes, spark plugs have ceased to be a routine service item for any modern car, and the original plugs can be expected to function just fine for hundreds of thousands of miles. They've ceased to be a routine service item. When spark plugs were a routine service item, engines were routinely designed to give relatively easy access to the sparkplugs both for removal and installation. There now exist many cars where it is not possible to access the spark plugs unless the engine is removed from the car (don't believe me, web search). This does not outrage me because the probability of replacing modern spark plugs being necessary is very low. Now, if they did the same thing in terms of the sump plug for an oil change, all the world would be enraged and rise up in protest.

Everyone knows that when it comes to laptops keyboard abuse, and subsequent failure, is very common. Even in routine and reasonably careful use, laptop keyboards fail much more often than any conventional desktop keyboards typically do, including the cheap ones. That's why I find the whole "top assembly" engineering, though it's now ubiquitous, to be so outrageous. The only care from the manufacturers is ease and speed of putting these things together, with adamant refusal to consider common maintenance. And throwing away a perfectly good cover and mouse trackpad because a keyboard key has gone wonky is a crying shame. We used to be able to drop out a keyboard wholesale and put another in in it's place. That would be entirely possible with top assemblies were screws or some other removable fastener used to hold the keyboard in place. Plastic friction fit "nail type" fasteners used on all the posts that hold the keyboard in would do that job perfectly, be able to be serviced, and also be simple to use in robotic assembly lines. But, no . . .

I wish that every design engineer, CEO, and whoever leads the accounting department were forced to do one, just one, routine maintenance task with their products during the development phase and to be checked afterward to make sure the thing works and the work was done correctly. I'll bet we'd see quite a few design changes that would make most of our lives easier, no matter what it is we're working on. I know that this is a complete fantasy, but one can dream.

 

[ell]

I normally don't follow-up to myself, but one thing that I did not mention, and that I personally hate in practice, but understand, is that virtually any physical product you can name today is designed with "ease of manufacture," and usually robotic manufacture, in mind. That would be OK if any consideration of "ease of maintenance and repair" were also part of the mix, but it's abundantly clear that it's not.

We all know, and the various manufacturers know this better than any one of us do, because they study it, that certain parts of certain products are service items, very likely to need servicing, while others are not. Using an automobile as an example, tires, oil, and other fluids are routine service items, and designs need to make the actual changing of same as easy as possible. These days, with iridium and ruthenium tipped electrodes, spark plugs have ceased to be a routine service item for any modern car, and the original plugs can be expected to function just fine for hundreds of thousands of miles. They've ceased to be a routine service item. When spark plugs were a routine service item, engines were routinely designed to give relatively easy access to the sparkplugs both for removal and installation. There now exist many cars where it is not possible to access the spark plugs unless the engine is removed from the car (don't believe me, web search). This does not outrage me because the probability of replacing modern spark plugs being necessary is very low. Now, if they did the same thing in terms of the sump plug for an oil change, all the world would be enraged and rise up in protest.

Everyone knows that when it comes to laptops keyboard abuse, and subsequent failure, is very common. Even in routine and reasonably careful use, laptop keyboards fail much more often than any conventional desktop keyboards typically do, including the cheap ones. That's why I find the whole "top assembly" engineering, though it's now ubiquitous, to be so outrageous. The only care from the manufacturers is ease and speed of putting these things together, with adamant refusal to consider common maintenance. And throwing away a perfectly good cover and mouse trackpad because a keyboard key has gone wonky is a crying shame. We used to be able to drop out a keyboard wholesale and put another in in it's place. That would be entirely possible with top assemblies were screws or some other removable fastener used to hold the keyboard in place. Plastic friction fit "nail type" fasteners used on all the posts that hold the keyboard in would do that job perfectly, be able to be serviced, and also be simple to use in robotic assembly lines. But, no . . .

I wish that every design engineer, CEO, and whoever leads the accounting department were forced to do one, just one, routine maintenance task with their products during the development phase and to be checked afterward to make sure the thing works and the work was done correctly. I'll bet we'd see quite a few design changes that would make most of our lives easier, no matter what it is we're working on. I know that this is a complete fantasy, but one can dream.

Agreed. Here in the US there was a brief movement to force electronics manufacurers to make their stuff "repairable" instead of disposable, ie, macs from 2016 on, no removable sdd, etc. ofcourse the big manufacturers will win, I havent heard any more about it. Customers today are getting conditioned when they call to just say should I just throw it and buy new? agh.

 

[gadgetfixup]

We use a hot knife to cut off all the nubs, replace the keyboard and use a pointed soldering iron to melt new nubs. Then we mix up a little epoxy and drip a drop on each nub. Never had one return.

 

[ThatPlace928]

Customers today are getting conditioned when they call to just say should I just throw it and buy new? agh.

And it's a shame many feel that way. People ask who fixes TVs and 9 responses out of 10 will be to throw it away, that the repair cost is more than a new one. My son fixes most TVs, though, so I let them know. I just can't see throwing something away, when it can be repaired.

 

[frase]

Way too time consuming, purchase the complete assembly and add your margin. If it were my own, yea probably in my own time.

 

[britechguy]

I just can't see throwing something away, when it can be repaired.

I can't, either. But, and it's an important but, it has to be able to be repaired economically. When a repair is very near to, and sometimes over, the cost of a new item there's no way I can justify it.

I live in a town that still has an active TV repair shop, and he does a lot of work on other electronics like Playstations, etc. I refer folks to him frequently.

 

[ThatPlace928]

I live in a town that still has an active TV repair shop, and he does a lot of work on other electronics like Playstations, etc. I refer folks to him frequently.

That's what my son's shop is for. Game consoles, TVs, and a bunch of other stuff, including slot machines. He's amazing and I have him do quite a bit of my own work. His shop is 2 doors down from mine so it makes for a quick walk between us.

And, yes, as far as cost goes. We weigh out the repairs versus new and let the customer decide.

 

[frase]

Cool that is one of my hobbies retro and vintage systems and consoles.

 

[ThatPlace928]

Cool that is one of my hobbies retro and vintage systems and consoles.

My son's been tearing electronics apart, since he was in his early teens, just to see how everything works. With a little experience, he even got better putting it all back together....... lol. He worked for a couple casinos as a slot tech and loved it. Everything he knows, he learned on his own.

 

[Philippe]

Here in the US there was a brief movement to force electronics manufacurers to make their stuff "repairable"

There a new law in France:
Any household appliances sold must be able to be fixed and / or reconditioned.
A "repairability" index must be displayed on the product label and there is even a "rebate" (10 to 45 €) from the state if you repair it...

Will see where it goes...