Replacing a Verizon router with Unifi WiFi Quality Question

[Velvis]

I am going to replace an older Verizon Fios Router (The thin black model, I think its a Quantum). Which is currently used as the only WiFi access point in a small office of 3-4 users without issue.

Do the cloud gateways perform just as well as the dream routers?
Which is the better choice?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

The differences are in the details...
*Throughput
*Amount of clients it can handle
*Some have wifi built in, others don't.

Many offices...I use access points throughout the office, ceiling mount, wall mount, in wall mount, shelf top....and I have the network distro located where I don't need wifi..so I don't need a Unifi gateway with built in wifi there. Typically more powerful models don't have built in wifi because...they're designed to be connected to a switch(es)...with multiple APs behind them.

Ubiquiti Store

Rethinking IT

store.ui.com

 

[Markverhyden]

I am going to replace an older Verizon Fios Router (The thin black model, I think its a Quantum). Which is currently used as the only WiFi access point in a small office of 3-4 users without issue.

Do the cloud gateways perform just as well as the dream routers?
Which is the better choice?

It's possible that the VZ ONT will not work with a third party router. Especially on a Business Account. Ran into that several times years ago when VZ was rolling out fiber Internet. Had to leave the VZ router in place and in bridge mode then attach the 3rd party router. Of course you just turn off WiFi on the VZ router.

 

[britechguy]

Which is currently used as the only WiFi access point in a small office of 3-4 users without issue.

Serious question with no snark: Why?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. All the more so because by the time it might break, the fix will be different (and probably better).

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Serious question with no snark: Why?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. All the more so because by the time it might break, the fix will be different (and probably better).

For those of us that do "MSP"....most of us have our tech stack that we work with..and only with..for our managed clients.
For example, for us...email...Microsoft 365. For antivirus...Huntress. For backup...Axcient. For computers....Dell or Lenovo...biz models. And for network equipment....Unifi across all our clients. Reasons? Many! For 1....ISP provided CPE are typically..junk. Very limited in functionality. Yes we can navigate around the webUI of most, but..they are quite limited in what they can do. As an MSP...we typically desire additional features. Quite honestly...we're also spoiled by what the entire Unifi stack can do. It gives us incredible insight into the network, clients, traffic, what network protocols are going where. We also typically need good VLAN management sometimes firewall rules and ....biggest of all....we can manage just about all of our 200+ client networks within a single multi tenant management portal. Makes life soo much easier for us, we can do things quicker, quickly do DHCP reservations, change a wireless password, we can troubleshoot the network...why something isn't connecting, etc. For an example, just last week a client called, she got a new HP printer, went to set it up herself, had issues...called us up. After taking a quick remote session on her computer, I brought up our Unifi portal, went to her golf club network...looked at client devices. The Unifi portal showed an HP printer...uplinked to port 13 or whatever on their 24 port switch..and from there I saw it was on a different VLAN. The network jack she plugged her printer into, was for a point of sale system for the golf pro shop...they had a piece of equipment in the main office where she was. She didn't know that the particular network jack she plugged into went to a different VLAN. But...within mere minutes...it allowed us to figure it out.

So even with our smallest clients...if they're on a managed plan, we "toss in/bundle" a Unifi gateway like the Dream Router for an all in one, and "bridge" the ISP provided CPE.

 

[britechguy]

For those of us that do "MSP"....most of us have our tech stack that we work with..and only with..for our managed clients.

Which is a perfectly legitimate answer and position. But nothing in the original message "screamed MSP" to me, hence, my question. If this is a time and materials thing with an ultra-small business, I'd touch nothing that's meeting current needs. But, if you are an MSP with a specific technology stack . . .

 

[Velvis]

For those of us that do "MSP"....most of us have our tech stack that we work with..and only with..for our managed clients.
For example, for us...email...Microsoft 365. For antivirus...Huntress. For backup...Axcient. For computers....Dell or Lenovo...biz models. And for network equipment....Unifi across all our clients. Reasons? Many! For 1....ISP provided CPE are typically..junk. Very limited in functionality. Yes we can navigate around the webUI of most, but..they are quite limited in what they can do. As an MSP...we typically desire additional features. Quite honestly...we're also spoiled by what the entire Unifi stack can do. It gives us incredible insight into the network, clients, traffic, what network protocols are going where. We also typically need good VLAN management sometimes firewall rules and ....biggest of all....we can manage just about all of our 200+ client networks within a single multi tenant management portal. Makes life soo much easier for us, we can do things quicker, quickly do DHCP reservations, change a wireless password, we can troubleshoot the network...why something isn't connecting, etc. For an example, just last week a client called, she got a new HP printer, went to set it up herself, had issues...called us up. After taking a quick remote session on her computer, I brought up our Unifi portal, went to her golf club network...looked at client devices. The Unifi portal showed an HP printer...uplinked to port 13 or whatever on their 24 port switch..and from there I saw it was on a different VLAN. The network jack she plugged her printer into, was for a point of sale system for the golf pro shop...they had a piece of equipment in the main office where she was. She didn't know that the particular network jack she plugged into went to a different VLAN. But...within mere minutes...it allowed us to figure it out.

So even with our smallest clients...if they're on a managed plan, we "toss in/bundle" a Unifi gateway like the Dream Router for an all in one, and "bridge" the ISP provided CPE.

I have installed a small number of Unifi routers/gateways over the last few years and never had a problem completely replacing Verizon's routers. Is there an advantage to leaving their router and bridging it vs. replacing it completely?

 

[HCHTech]

In our area, I've never run into Verizon's modem being required. We've taken the internet feed directly from the ONT to our firewall 100% of the time. Comcast, on the other hand, not so much. Their modem/gateway is always required as far as I know. On the why, for businesses, I want our firewall at the edge. Even small business should all still have traffic inspection: Gateway AV, Gateway Antispyware, DPI, IP, GEO-IP, the works.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I have installed a small number of Unifi routers/gateways over the last few years and never had a problem completely replacing Verizon's routers. Is there an advantage to leaving their router and bridging it vs. replacing it completely?

I was using the broad term of ISP CPE equipment to refer to any ISP's gateway. Granted, for most locations in recent years....Verizon can separate it at the ONT so in most cases you don't need their gateway in the mix. In the earlier years, some models of their gateway were required to be left in place and you could "bridge" them, or I think it was some other name they gave some bypass mode.

 

[Velvis]

The differences are in the details...
*Throughput
*Amount of clients it can handle
*Some have wifi built in, others don't.

Many offices...I use access points throughout the office, ceiling mount, wall mount, in wall mount, shelf top....and I have the network distro located where I don't need wifi..so I don't need a Unifi gateway with built in wifi there. Typically more powerful models don't have built in wifi because...they're designed to be connected to a switch(es)...with multiple APs behind them.

Ubiquiti Store

Rethinking IT

store.ui.com

Out of the express units or dream routers which would give a bigger coverage area? This would be the only wifi access point in the office. There is only 2-3 users with occasional Zoom video meetings.

 

[britechguy]

Out of the express units or dream routers which would give a bigger coverage area?

No snark intended, but isn't this at least slightly the wrong question? Once you have solid coverage for the space available, and if there's no reasonable expectation of expansion of that space, if it covers what's there, and it needs to cover, that's all that matters.

I'd rather have something that gives very solid performance over a smaller area, if that "smaller area" is at least as large as the actual area needing coverage, or a bit larger.

Excess capacity in anything, and I do mean excess, is a dead asset. More is not better once "enough" (when stressed) has been reached. I don't care what capacity that might refer to.

Overspeccing for capability literally never used, at all, is a waste, and too many people tend to do just that. (And I hasten to add that's not an accusation, but an observation).

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Out of the express units or dream routers which would give a bigger coverage area? This would be the only wifi access point in the office. There is only 2-3 users with occasional Zoom video meetings.

When you read the "specs" of the units...they both cover approx 1,750 sq ft.

Of course...this varies greatly based on...location where it sits, location within the overall building, walls, construction of walls, other interference, etc.

I did a survey last week at a huge professional center, a medical practice that was having issues with its wifi. My survey tools picked up over 100 neighboring wifi broadcasts. Channels were overlapping like crazy.

There is a lot of variables.

 

[timeshifter]

I did a survey last week at a huge professional center, a medical practice that was having issues with its wifi. My survey tools picked up over 100 neighboring wifi broadcasts. Channels were overlapping like crazy.

How do you do your surveys?

About 10 years ago I had a client where his neighbor on the floor above him had what seemed like an obsessive number of access points for their space. My client had a Ubiquiti AP. We'd get errors on our laptops and their systems too about the password for the WiFi being incorrect. IT WAS CORRECT. I brought the AP home and my laptop connected fine. In their environment I was getting the incorrect WiFi password error on my laptop - same laptop, same AP, different environments.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

How do you do your surveys?

Around 8 or so years ago I had some huge projects where I purchased a NetAlly scanner

AirCheck® G3 Pro - NetAlly

The AirCheck G3 Pro delivers professional-grade wireless analysis and site surveys across Wi-Fi 6/6E, Wi-Fi 7, and Bluetooth/BLE environments—without the limitations of software-only tools or apps.

www.netally.com

Higher price, plus an annual subscription...we I wanted it for some big projects where I really had to get detailed. (like a fairly large private school...building had a huge footprint, plus multiple floors).

For "most" of our clients (typical small business of <150 users)....I just use my laptop with inSSIDr and/or Unifis WiFiMan.

 

[HCHTech]

For "most" of our clients (typical small business of <150 users)....I just use my laptop with inSSIDr and/or Unifis WiFiMan.

This is what we do. I also sometimes take an access point of my own so I can get information from the Unifi portal about connections, too.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I also sometimes take an access point of my own so I can get information from the Unifi portal about connections, too.

Yup....handy technique for larger setups...you can just place a Unifi AP plugged into a POE injector in random rooms...and then go walk around other areas, get an idea about things, walls, sorta plan overlap, etc. No need to plug into the network..just power up and measure signal.