Ethernet VIOP fax question

[Rosco]

Have a client that has comcast business phone and internet. There fax line is hooked up through a ethernet line that is coupled to a rj11 near the router.(installed before i became there tech). Now they want a second fax machine on the other side of the office(same number). I was wondering if i could use something like this on the ethernet port to connect the fax.

Any advice or alternate suggests are greatly appreciated.

 

[TAPtech]

You can just plug the RJ11 into the RJ45 jack. But... that assumes that the wiring is correct on the jack. It is normal to use regular 8 wire CAT5/e/6 for phone lines. I would simply replace the wall jack with an RJ11 though, if it is indeed wired to the fax line. I think back in the day with PBX systems, some would use RJ45 to get an extra line. I'm a youngin' though an not sure.

 

[AndyM]

Now they want a second fax machine on the other side of the office(same number).

So how would that work? Which fax would intercept the data transmition? Use one to send, one to receive?

Andy

 

[nlinecomputers]

Who the heck uses fax machines anymore? Can't you do this with a fax server?

 

[Rosco]

So how would that work? Which fax would intercept the data transmition? Use one to send, one to receive?

Andy

they just want to be able to send from different parts of the office. I have other office have multiple faxes(with only one line) just none on comcast voice. They just setup up only one to answer. It seems like the just connected a ethernet cable to a phone line using this coupler of sorts. So i was hoping i could just use some sort of adapter on the wall outlet itself.

 

[Markverhyden]

It all depends on the premise wiring. You can have two of the adapters on each end, that's why they are sold in pairs, but it requires that the ethernet cable be wired 568A or B, matching on both ends. Meaning that all 4 pairs are used. What you can run into is that on some wiring jobs the contractors "cheat". They will run one cable and use two pairs on each keystone to get two data runs. This is because ethernet data only uses pins 1-2 and 3-6. If you look closely at the part in question you can see that the RJ45 plug is wired using pins 3,4,5,6. So those must be on each end of the ethernet run. You can pop the wall plates to check them.

 

[Rosco]

It all depends on the premise wiring. You can have two of the adapters on each end, that's why they are sold in pairs, but it requires that the ethernet cable be wired 568A or B, matching on both ends. Meaning that all 4 pairs are used. What you can run into is that on some wiring jobs the contractors "cheat". They will run one cable and use two pairs on each keystone to get two data runs. This is because ethernet data only uses pins 1-2 and 3-6. If you look closely at the part in question you can see that the RJ45 plug is wired using pins 3,4,5,6. So those must be on each end of the ethernet run. You can pop the wall plates to check them.

So i would need one on each end provided they are wired correctly? If they are not, is there a another way of doing it without running a line? Is there something like ethernet over electrical but for phone lines.

Thanks for all the responds everyone!

 

[TAPtech]

It all depends on the premise wiring. You can have two of the adapters on each end, that's why they are sold in pairs, but it requires that the ethernet cable be wired 568A or B, matching on both ends. Meaning that all 4 pairs are used. What you can run into is that on some wiring jobs the contractors "cheat". They will run one cable and use two pairs on each keystone to get two data runs. This is because ethernet data only uses pins 1-2 and 3-6. If you look closely at the part in question you can see that the RJ45 plug is wired using pins 3,4,5,6. So those must be on each end of the ethernet run. You can pop the wall plates to check them.

Mark, doesn't 1000T use all 4 pairs? I am no electrician, while I have seen pictures online of using the same CAT5 for a phone jack and an Ethernet jack, I've never seen it in practice. What I have seen quite commonly, though, is electricians using CAT5 instead of phone wire (what's that, CAT3?) and just leaving the extra wires wrapped around and taped off.

Also, while I am not in any ways endorsing shorting a set of wires or "try it and find out", I doubt that shorting telephone lines are going to result in a fire due to the low amount of current that goes through them. You never know, though, so if you're not sure what's going on... not good to find out by trial and error.

If the jack is labeled and you can find it back at the patch panel, you could remove it and hook it up to the phone lines back there, possibly.

 

[TAPtech]

Who the heck uses fax machines anymore? Can't you do this with a fax server?

LOL @nlinecomputers trying to apply logic to end users

 

[nlinecomputers]

LOL @nlinecomputers trying to apply logic to end users

No trying to do the job most of us are hired to do. Improve efficiency. Printing something and running to a fax machine is pretty unnecessary in 2016. In most cases an email will handle what fax used to and even when you have to use fax, running a fax printer driver to a fax server device is far more efficient and doesn't kill a tree just to print a page to fax. End users ask for things because they don't know any better. But wanting a fax machine closer to the user is a request for more efficiency.

 

[Rosco]

Just was onsite. Unfortunately they want 2 new faxes. The workaround i was thinking is just not going to work. They will have to wire if they want this. I am going to recommend going to a efax service can anyone recommend a good one for healthcare? But u have a feeling they will want to wire and buy machines. Just another way the end user makes life easier lol.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Healthcare? So they don't already have a high-end document machine with network fax capabilities? Most can fax any document sent to it via the network and you can put Fuji Scansnap units on the desks of those who fax signed documents. Scan, click a button and sends it away, Don't even have to leave the desk.

 

[Markverhyden]

Mark, doesn't 1000T use all 4 pairs? I am no electrician, while I have seen pictures online of using the same CAT5 for a phone jack and an Ethernet jack, I've never seen it in practice. What I have seen quite commonly, though, is electricians using CAT5 instead of phone wire (what's that, CAT3?) and just leaving the extra wires wrapped around and taped off.

No, GB just uses 2 pair as well. Copper runs have to be able to support PoE as well which require another 2 pair so that is what forms the BASE-T design. But copper is copper. My objective is to do things the "right" way. But sometimes that can be cost prohibitive to the customer. Several times I've had situations where something happened to the green or orange pair. After discussion and approval I just re-terminated each end using another pair to get them up and running.

In @Rosco's situation one could have used just one pair, that is all that is needed for a basic single phone line, re-terminating on end in addition to the dongles he mentioned.

 

[Rosco]

Healthcare? So they don't already have a high-end document machine with network fax capabilities? Most can fax any document sent to it via the network and you can put Fuji Scansnap units on the desks of those who fax signed documents. Scan, click a button and sends it away, Don't even have to leave the desk.

they have a cannon ir forget the model number. Not the newest model maybe 4 or 5 years old.

 

[Markverhyden]

Just was onsite. Unfortunately they want 2 new faxes. The workaround i was thinking is just not going to work. They will have to wire if they want this. I am going to recommend going to a efax service can anyone recommend a good one for healthcare? But u have a feeling they will want to wire and buy machines. Just another way the end user makes life easier lol.

Healthcare? Yep, most small places are still stuck in the 1980's. Got a local pharmacy customer which just upgraded their McKesson script system from a 1990's Unix (yes that is correct) system to cloud based M$ workstations. I installed a new AIO that included fax. If you get a lot of faxes a standalone fax is much cheaper than paying for a HIPAA compliant efax service for a small, single location CE. Of course I'm sure none of them would pass an onsite audit for securing the paper. LOL!!!!

 

[nlinecomputers]

Healthcare? Yep, most small places are still stuck in the 1980's. Got a local pharmacy customer which just upgraded their McKesson script system from a 1990's Unix (yes that is correct) system to cloud based M$ workstations. I installed a new AIO that included fax. If you get a lot of faxes a standalone fax is much cheaper than paying for a HIPAA compliant efax service for a small, single location CE. Of course I'm sure none of them would pass an onsite audit for securing the paper. LOL!!!!

Aint that the truth, and it sounds like they might have most of the resources to modernize this in place. A Canon IR ought to be able to perform network fax services.

 

[Rosco]

Well it is all a mute point anyway. Just got a call from the owner. They are thinking about moving office so they are all connected. So it would be a nice big wiring job if that happens. So we are going to hold off to see what happens. I would be happy with this so i can start from scratch and do it right. Thanks everyone from you advice. @nlinecomputers I will look into the snapscan to see if that is workable. Very helpful idea!