Cabeling Job

Midnite

Midnite

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I reviewed a clients site today and need to come up with an estimate and proposal for doing work for them ... anyone on here that is a tech have exp with how you bill clients for cable runs and setting up a panel with a switch and a server ? They need 9 pc drops ... 1 printer drop and the server that will be connected in the server closet ( to the panel directly ) I need to do all work including jacks wall plates holes in the sheetrock etc etc ... any idea on how to bill fairly would be most appreciated ...

Thanks All
Midnite
 
That question is difficult to answer, I mean, how long is a piece of string ? (or cat5, cat6, whatever).

Seriously, how can we possibly answer a question like that.

How much cable will be used ?
How much is the hardware ?
WHAT type of hardware ?

I could go on, but I don't want to overuse my typing finger on this one.

If I misunderstood the question then I'm sorry, but I don't get it ?
 
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I charge 125 a drop and have two cables at each drop. I charge 200 for the patch panel.
 
As you may have surmised. I would never charge a fixed rate for cable installations.

I survey the site, assess routing conditions and cable lengths.

Some lays are straightforward, others are more problematic.

How can you charge a fixed rate when the cabling has to go through an Asbestos lined wall or ceiling. Working with asbestos is a highly controlled procedure involving heavy duty hazmat gear. I had that once.

Cat5 is a lot cheaper than cat6, which is more appropriate ?

IMHO, there are too many variables to blindly quote a set price.
 
bertie40 said:
As you may have surmised. I would never charge a fixed rate for cable installations.

I survey the site, assess routing conditions and cable lengths.

Some lays are straightforward, others are more problematic.

How can you charge a fixed rate when the cabling has to go through an Asbestos lined wall or ceiling. Working with asbestos is a highly controlled procedure involving heavy duty hazmat gear. I had that once.

Cat5 is a lot cheaper than cat6, which is more appropriate ?

IMHO, there are too many variables to blindly quote a set price.
Click to expand...

quantity my friend, quantity.... you also charge the same amount for that 15' drop on the other side of the wall as the 298' drop on the other side of the factory, sure one takes 10minutes whilst the other takes 2hours... but you get it done the same... also flat fees allow you to roll 2+ techs and not worry about the customer griping over time/techs.

We just finished a site yesterday..... 32 drops, used 1800' of cat5e and took a total of 25 man hours including a new rack, patch panels cable track, conduit, and everything.... most were dual or quads, so we cut them a deal.... $85/drop for all drops..... plus $350 for the rack, and $400 additional for conduit. These were all certified without printed results - Using BerkTec Cable.

So for about $3,500 we spent about $800 in parts and had a $100/man/hr profit.... customer liked it because there were NO variables, we liked it because we can do things like cabling quickly when you have 3 or 4 techs to a site and all needed tools and equipment.

Cabling when doing it in quantity is great work -- we just redid a large box store, 38,000' of cat5e.... didn't make as much per man hour due to most runs being close to 300' and lots of obstacles.... but we still hit our $75/hr for over 100hrs.

You manage the risk by high volume.
 
Well I guess this is just me :)

I'm not a fan of fixed prices for anything.

I don't believe in charging the same for big cabling jobs as opposed to small ones.

For any job I take, I assess the workload, turnaround time and hardware expenditure. I customise the task to the customer who I advise on this method from first contact.

Supply prices can be volatile at the best of times, so I price according to market conditions.

I work out a rough price (slightly on the high side), and advise the customer of this, indicating that it may work out slightly cheaper depending on what I encounter.

I'm a one man operation, so I haven't staff to worry about. My turnover is quite low, so hitting quantity targets to make things worthwhile is a non starter.

High volume turnover doesn't exist in my world :)

Logical or illogical, it's the way I prefer to work.
Hay Ho.
 
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We charge $100 per run includes labor, cable and jacks.
We survey the site first. If its a nightmare we decline and recommend an electrician or dedicated wiring company. We have a few that we refer to.
Been doing it this way for a long time and its been working out great!
 
ComputerPro said:
We charge $100 per run includes labor, cable and jacks.
We survey the site first. If its a nightmare we decline and recommend an electrician or dedicated wiring company. We have a few that we refer to.
Been doing it this way for a long time and its been working out great!
Click to expand...

yep we're usually 100 - 125, occasionally like on this one where we dropped to $85 was because we had 4 quad outlets... makes life easy
 
More Info / Thank you

Thank you all for the REPLYS ... I was jsut trying to get an idea on what was fair to myself and my client as they are new and I want to be thier go to IT guy once the job is done ( as they have mentioned an interests in such ) I need to do 9 drops for PC's 1 drop for a printer / fax and 1 for the server altho I think the server will be plugging right into the patch panel ...

The server closet will have a switch internet router ( optimum - here in NY ) and the patch panel as well as the server ...

The cable runs are all thru drop ceiling and sheetrock walls and not longer then 100 ft a drop ... I also run double wire and jacks ( as well as connections to the panel ) so that they have spares in case they are needed.

They mentioned to me that they have IP phones that plug into the network and then the jacks before the pc's so I dont need to run seperate phone lines.

I would like to offer then a labor price for the job ( exluding parts and supplies ) and then also one with parts as to give them a no involvement ( move in ) option ...

They have also mentioned to me moving a DVR with 6 cameras so I may also need to be running Siamese wire for the camera system as well ...

Thanks for all the good ideas so far if anyone else has any others or have seen any type of calculation ( style ) software or excel sheets that might be of assistance your knowledge and letting me know would be most appreciated from one tech to another

Thanks Again everyone for you time and input I am most greatful

Midnite
Chad
 
Daily rate

If there is lots of stuff to do then you could always offer them a daily rate package. If you want to win the bid and you really think they will use you as their IT dept for all future stuff then you could give them a "new client" daily special.... say $500 per day.
So you would be their own tech for a day. We used to call it the 'tech for the day' program lol.

You have to be careful though as you will not make as much money this way. You have to estimate how long the job will take you and figure from there.
You mentioned 9 drops ($900) and misc work. Will you be able to do all this in one day? If so, you would be losing some cash. If it would take 2 days then you might actually make some (2 days x$500ea =$1,000) Breaks down to $62.50 an hour. Not really that bad, especially for a one man shop or a tech out of his home.

I usually do this if a few things are happening:

1. I think they will become a permanent customer.
2. They are getting lots of bids and I want to win the job.

The upside to this is that it is super duper easy to spec out and estimate. Basically its "I'm yours for a whole day at a flat rate" type of sales pitch. The clients usually like this as they don't have to mull over a bunch of estimates and figure which labor is for what and how much this guys labor is per hour vs this guy etc. I always mention its a $300 savings for them over the hourly rate during an 8 hr day.

While all the other guys spend an hour or so doing their bid/estimate, you can jump in your invoicing program and do a 3 minute bid lol. They just have to know that it may take more than one day. If the following day is very short to finish the project, like an hour or two, I would charge the normally hourly rate that day $99 per hr.

QTY 1 Daily Rate PKG (8hrs) $500
--------------------------------------------
Will perform all tech related labor and functions including:
Network cabling
Equipment assembly/disassembly
Computer service
Networking
Needed parts will be billed accordingly

The catch is you have to really work like your an employee etc. You can't take 25 coffee breaks lol.

It certainly doesn't fit all scenarios, but its an option.
 
I dont want to steal the thread here but I do have a question about cabling.

If you have a customer with say 6 drops that are cat5e and you are installing a NAS for backing up via network then it seems that a 1gig network would be advisable ? Thus you would have to rewire for cat6 right? And of course the swapping out the switch/nics.

Or would you just stick with the cat5e and 10/100 and let it go at that? Just afraid the customer would start complaining the network was slow.

Whats your opinion?

Thanks in advance,

coffee
 
CAt5e

Cat5e should handle that fine. Usually will get gig speeds anyway.
If the client wants the added expense of rewiring everything then Cat 6 of course as will all 'new' installs.
But will they see a noticeable speed difference? I doubt it.

Will prob be a different story when 10gb is the norm.
 
coffee said:
If you have a customer with say 6 drops that are cat5e and you are installing a NAS for backing up via network then it seems that a 1gig network would be advisable ? Thus you would have to rewire for cat6 right? And of course the swapping out the switch/nics.

Or would you just stick with the cat5e and 10/100 and let it go at that? Just afraid the customer would start complaining the network was slow.
Click to expand...

You need to read up on the specifications for CAT5e. CAT5e can easily support 1000BASE-TX. I hope you haven't been telling clients otherwise.
 
coffee said:
If you have a customer with say 6 drops that are cat5e and you are installing a NAS for backing up via network then it seems that a 1gig network would be advisable ? Thus you would have to rewire for cat6 right? And of course the swapping out the switch/nics.

Or would you just stick with the cat5e and 10/100 and let it go at that? Just afraid the customer would start complaining the network was slow.
Click to expand...

5e will run at gigabit. For shorter distances....5e is fine. For a long distance...or if I were going to put in a backbone home run to connect two gigabit switches....I'd use cat6...it handles heavy gigabit needs better. But for just a single NAS unit that I was going to plug into an existing network....assuming that leg was short..I'd leave the 5e in place.

The official wording is "gray".
Officially....CAT5e "supports" gigabit....yet it's not officially "certified" for it.
Yet...officially...CAT6 is "certified" for it.
 
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As to the OPs original question....as you can tell by feedback, providing quotes has a lot of variables.

First...initial pricing "per drop" is often difficult. You can use that to provide a "guestimate"...like "I usually start with $125/drop". But now you have to look at other things. Lets start with the building.
Is it a standard newer professional center/office building with thin sheetrock and easy navigation around drop ceilings and hollow walls? Or it is some old victorian home converted to an office...with brutally thick walls and heavy custom wood-work..or that really thick plaster put over steel mesh backing. Or it is a warehouse or industrial building where you'll need 50 foot ladders to go up in the exposed ceiling areas? Or is it a school where you'll have cinderblock walls to drill holes through with an impact hammer...and then you'll have to go back and fill the gaps in the holes with firestop clay to keep the fire marshall happy with codes? Exposed HVAC system in the drop ceilings...so you'll need plenum rate cable? Any external or underground runs needed where you'll need exterior rated cable?

Lotta variables.
Always go look at a potential job...before prepping a formal quote.
For over 12 years I've been using one guy.....he's a retired foreman from the local phone company. From doing that job..he's been in tons of the buildings I send him to for jobs. He's been officially certified in wiring..and fiber, he even teaches a night class to new electricians. Does incredibly good word. I assist him on larger more difficult jobs for my clients...otherwise, I just send him in..and he bills through me so I get a little commission on it. And the work always stays top notch and proper to code 'n such.
 
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