Build your own BDR device

[Chadhardy]

I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on building your own BDR device. I just setup my first Datto unit, but I was wondering how feasible it is to build your own. Especially since the Datto units aren't upgradeable. I would have to purchase a new unit if my client's needs increase.

I know the components and software is available, but what kinda of costs am I looking at and what is the reliability compared to units like Datto's?

 

[pceinc]

The quality and reliability will be as good as the parts you use to build the server. All the software and tools are available to build a quality BDR. Some MSP's prefer to do this due to the restriction on upgrading BDR's from Datto or Zenith. Let's face it, there's not much involved with upgrading storage or RAM in a BDR. ShadowProtect has an MSP program that allows you to rent licenses rather than purchasing outright. This helps leverage your start up cost as long as you have a client paying you month to month for a BDR service. Find yourself an online data storage facility and your set. You will want to make sure you can support it though. One of the advantages to using Zenith or Datto is their NOC and monitoring services. If you plan on getting into BDR services heavily you'll need to have the workforce to support it. Nothing's worse than having two clients in need of a server restore at the same time and your the only one capable of doing it.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I'll never touch this. One could muster together a bunch of "sorce-forge" products and come up with a ghetto appliance...but I want the best of the best for my clients, one that has solid support behind it, and one that I can use that support when it's really crunch time. When clients servers crash...you are under the hottest of spotlights and pressure during those moments. I'd want a professional company backing me!

I don't want the responsibility of having to support these devices other than to be the liason between my client, and Datto support.
Client has a problem, I quickly look at it...but more often than not I'll submit a trouble ticket and Dattos support team will remote in...do what they have to do, and then send me (and my client) an e-mail that it's all done! It's a cool feature that our clients love. I have no idea on how to do that.

Datto uses good equipment....SuperMicro hardware for their larger Siris appliances.

Datto did the special work with StorageCraft in working on the specially tweaked version of ShadowSnap that they use. Need to restore Exchange? They have the built in Kroll for restore.

In testing the backups...Datto takes a screen shot of the backup image booted up..and you get that screenshot of the ctrl+alt+del login of each computer you've backed up..so you know the backup image worked each day. Best "backup log" I've seen. How are you going to replicate that?

DattoBackup has the very cool feature of restoring images to different bare metal. The appliance will "detect" the new server you brought in, and then see that it's (for example)..a Dell PowerEdge T620..it will go do Dells website..download the appropriate drives, inject them into the image to be restored..and then push install that image to the new hardware and make for a much easier and quicker first couple of boots as the dust settles.

I have no way of providing redundant data centers on east and west coasts...in case a disaster takes out one coast. I have no way of providing those offsite access that Datto does. Say a clients office burns down...thus their servers, and the local Siris appliance...are ashes. Datto can "boot up" the offsite server images..and make them available to your client via RDP/VPN. How are you going to invent that wheel?

Regarding your "upgrade" point....which is valid..say you sold them a Siris S1000 product...with the matching offsite plan. If the client grows...and their servers have more than the S1000 is designed to handle, Datto provides you with a smooth upgrade path...you upgrade to the S2000...and you (or your client) only pay the difference. You get 100% of the value of the S1000 rolled into the upgrade.

What if you get hit by a bus, some poor sucker that takes over as the new IT guy is stuck with having to support your system? (same reason I don't do home built/cloner systems)

Years ago we "rolled our own" offsite backup system....but it certainly wasn't disaster recovery. It was just a basic file backup system, on our own NAS in our own office. But you have incredible costs with that...you really need to have:
*Generator backup
*Redundant internet connections..in case one goes down
*Secured/logged server room
*You'll need at least a secondary offsite location in case location 1 does down.
*Similar setup at location 2, similar costs
*Constant upgrades of your hardware NAS units, licenses, etc.

It just doesn't make financial sense.
It doesn't make good business sense either, IMO.

 

[Knightsman]

Years ago we "rolled our own" offsite backup system....but it certainly wasn't disaster recovery. It was just a basic file backup system, on our own NAS in our own office. But you have incredible costs with that...you really need to have:
*Generator backup
*Redundant internet connections..in case one goes down
*Secured/logged server room
*You'll need at least a secondary offsite location in case location 1 does down.
*Similar setup at location 2, similar costs
*Constant upgrades of your hardware NAS units, licenses, etc.

It just doesn't make financial sense.
It doesn't make good business sense either, IMO.

This is true to a point. We host our own backup server. If our ISP internet goes out, its normally for a short time, and the software will initiate the backup once it has a connection again. I dont see any reason for having 2 dedicated ISPs... Just have to make sure that the client has an onsite backup (nas, external hd, etc). In the case of a fire, flood, etc, and the rare chance my ISP is out, they would still have a backup from the night/day beforehand. Considering we can gauarantee the files that are on our server, and cant do the same with others, it makes me feel better. We have plenty of bandwidth. We also backup using Raid, a secondary hard drive, and crashplan. eventually we will have antother location as a failover, but dotn find it necessary right now, we have 16 clients on the backup system right now, and its workign great. We charge $5 per computer (included with a maintenance plan) or $85 year.

And if it really came down to it, id tether one of our cell phones to the server so it can connect and run the backup.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

And what if something happens to your building? Their history of backups goes "poof"...and then they have some issue with a database and you have to reach back to a backup of 7 days ago...and the local device doesn't do that? You're stuck...cuz you haven't had other locations to "mirror" to.

IMO, shopping for offsite backup companies...redundant locations is a must have. We even do that with our hosted e-mail washing system...we have 3 different locations. It's just smart.

I can't see cellular doing that well...even 4g. Perhaps if you're doing basic file backups..and only doing changed. But then in that case, plain backups is not BDR..title of this thread. BDR includes image backups..for fast restoration of servers.

 

[altrenda]

This is true to a point. We host our own backup server. If our ISP internet goes out, its normally for a short time, and the software will initiate the backup once it has a connection again. I dont see any reason for having 2 dedicated ISPs... Just have to make sure that the client has an onsite backup (nas, external hd, etc).

Can you tell us the worst situation you had to recover from? how did it go and how long did it take to get the client operational?

Not all clients need or want to pay for everything someone like Datto offers, but when things go wrong I wonder how you manage their expectations on when they will be back running?

An associate of mine sells Datto as his entry into managed services for new clients and really stresses time to recovery as much as the safety of the backup.

 

[Knightsman]

And what if something happens to your building? Their history of backups goes "poof"...and then they have some issue with a database and you have to reach back to a backup of 7 days ago...and the local device doesn't do that? You're stuck...cuz you haven't had other locations to "mirror" to.

IMO, shopping for offsite backup companies...redundant locations is a must have. We even do that with our hosted e-mail washing system...we have 3 different locations. It's just smart.

I can't see cellular doing that well...even 4g. Perhaps if you're doing basic file backups..and only doing changed. But then in that case, plain backups is not BDR..title of this thread. BDR includes image backups..for fast restoration of servers.

thats what crashplan is for, and the external. If Im here, and its an emergency, i can grab that external. I wouldn't let any backup go without running over 2 days, so 7 days isnt an option. I just dont have the need for it. 4G does great actually, ive had 3 backups run in a test, each doing 100k down.

The unlikely event that something happens to my building, and the customers building, and crashplan, and ++++ (hopefully nothing ever happens). Unlikely scenarios, yes, its possible, but so unlikely. if these were cleints that have mission critical systems, for that, we would go with ditto or another appliance that does the job with more reliability. But for non-critical file backup, this works great.

Can you tell us the worst situation you had to recover from? how did it go and how long did it take to get the client operational?

Not all clients need or want to pay for everything someone like Datto offers, but when things go wrong I wonder how you manage their expectations on when they will be back running?

An associate of mine sells Datto as his entry into managed services for new clients and really stresses time to recovery as much as the safety of the backup.

Worst was a clothing store, HD failure. We do a bare metal backup once a week to their local NAS. restored the image from their NAS, and was able to transfer the files from my backup server within an hour and a half between the two, back set on my server was about 4 Gigs. Could have been faster to use the local external, but I wanted to test my systems too. It happed on a day they were not open until late, so I had the time.

I tell my customers that if something goes wrong that impacts productivity, we are onsite within 4 hours, but this is typically within 2 hours.

I already had it on paper to have the backups replicated to another location if I got close to 20, so its about that time.

My main point, is it is not a necessity to have a replication server, if your still small and starting out. Its was a great starting point for us getting into this market. its also not a necessity to have two dedicated ISPs if your not backing up mission critical files/servers.

Also, think about it, if 4G didnt work so great, retail chains wouldnt be using them as a backup source of internet if their primary ISP goes out. i know this, because I have been doing a lot of this the last couple of months. 4g/3g modem ->cradlepoint ->backup router

 

[Knightsman]

But then in that case, plain backups is not BDR..title of this thread. BDR includes image backups..for fast restoration of servers.

Your right, the title is BDR, but you touched base on basic file backup...and I was responding to that. I dont see the harm in it.

 

[krtechsolutions]

To be honest with everyone I can see stonecats points however you are throwing all your eggs in one basket, people did the same thing with zenith and it suppose to be so great blah blah and were is zenith BDR solutions now? thats right all but gone.

You mention Datto and yes I will admit it is a good product right now, but what about in 2 years or heck 1 year down the road? I looked at datto and other bdr solutions and come to the verdict that if I want the headaches I could build a good BDR solution for cheaper however I will have the headaches or I can deal with a vendor and then have the price to worry about.

So for most of my clients I build my own BDR backups if I have a client that is careless about money I go with the datto solution. I can tell you for 90% of my clients their data is in a datacenter even if they use my BDR solution.

PM ME if you want details on what I do.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

You mention Datto and yes I will admit it is a good product right now, but what about in 2 years or heck 1 year down the road? I looked at datto and other bdr solutions and come to the verdict that if I want the headaches I could build a good BDR solution for cheaper however I will have the headaches or I can deal with a vendor and then have the price to worry about..

Datto will be here for a long time..and so will the primary technology they use...StorageCraft. Too huge of big capitol investment firms have backed them already..they aren't going anywhere.

The BDR appliance is easy..that's a no brainer. But the software components of it, this is what will be the true test.

How many features of Datto do you honestly thing you're capable of replicating with home brewed sorceforge stuff?

Or if it will be a more simple form...what features are you looking to provide? Offsite backup of files is easy. Offsite Backup AND Disaster Recovery...now you're stepping into a more complicated arena, IMO.

And true business continuity...which is yet one more step above BDR...is what Datto is about, and that's a high end product that commands a high price, which also gives you a high profit. Our experience....the profit in reselling datto is many MANY times more than reselling plain backup services like Jungle or CrashPlan or Intronis. Because it's such a high end product. This isn't for the 100 per month backup clients.

Anyways...it's a free country....if you wish to roll your own 'n support it, more power to ya. Just IMO, since you can make a ton of money for little time and no investment....and let the big headache fall on supports shoulders...why not.

 

[krtechsolutions]

No turning this into a fight but this is fun!!! lol

I am sure Enron was planning to be around for a while as well, lol

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

LOL....

Enrons mistake was getting into politics!

 

[bigdessert]

LOL....

Enrons mistake was getting into politics!

I may end up calling you at some point to find out more about how you like datto. We sold a series of zenith infotech bdr's a few years ago and they worked great for about 6 months, then the chains constantly started having problems on all devices and the support dropped to a terrible level and we basically get no support for them. Terrible product with terrible company behind it IMO. Datto is great and all but will they really be here in a year or two....after being burned by zenith I have my doubts.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Datto is US based..made up of local people, (well, local here in the US....I realize many here are from the UK).

I'd consider their competition to more properly be Axcient...which is also US based and singular in purpose.

Zenith...they tried being a jack of all trades, and they're based out of India. There's a reason I didn't pay much attention to them when we were shopping for an MSP product to go with several years ago...I did not have a good feeling about them back then and I'm glad I never considered the...looking at how they broke up lately.