Adding cameras to a unifi system

[Velvis]

A small bakery has asked to setup cameras in their shop. They have an existing Unifi system for wifi for the office and a guest network for customers. Are the Unifi wifi cameras reliable or would wired be recommended? There isn't much wiring in place so Wi-Fi would be preferred, but I am unfamiliar with how reliable they are.

 

[phaZed]

Wifi will work, but (as you likely know already) - you'll be limited to their G4 or G3 "Instant" cams with Wifi, or the doorbells, etc. for a "turnkey" solution.

Also, if you don't use a Networked POE wire on a POE camera - you'll need to provide power to it with a POE injector. So that could factor into your install.


You can use a Pro AP that has an additional POE out to make a wireless link, then wire direct to the camera from the AP.
I only have the doorbell on wireless, personally - and it doesn't have any issues. One camera is hardly a stress-test, but I'd recommend limiting the total of wireless cameras to 3 or 4 per AP (For HD) - and I would dedicate a Wifi channel/SSID/VLAN to just the cameras.

 

[timeshifter]

They have an existing Unifi system for wifi for the office and a guest network for customers.

Did you put that in? Do you have access to their controller for the UniFi system? Do you know what kind of controller it is - Cloud Key, part of a UniFi Dream Machine (built in), hosted cloud controller?

You may need to upgrade or replace their controller to work with the cameras.

As a general rule, I hate wireless cameras. Much better experience with wired cameras. Even when using WiFi cameras you still have to power them somehow, and that means a wire (or a battery that needs to be replaced periodically).

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

As a rule of thumb, for security cameras, wired is best. Murphys law, the night you need to retrieve the footage from...you'll find out the camera "fell offline" 2x weeks prior.

That being said, myself...I have not had a problem with wireless cameras at my home, and we have not had a problem with the Unifi wireless camera in our office. Key to wireless camera reliability is a good wifi system. Luckily Unifi can provide that (assuming the installer knows how to do wifi).

I even have an old UVC Micro G1 wireless camera...720p..covering top of the stairs to the 2nd floor and it hasn't fallen offline in over 10 years.
So while many of Unifi's wireless cameras are slim little USB-C cables....you'll still have that cable to run somewhere to plug in, so that limits mount points.

 

[Velvis]

Did you put that in? Do you have access to their controller for the UniFi system? Do you know what kind of controller it is - Cloud Key, part of a UniFi Dream Machine (built in), hosted cloud controller?

You may need to upgrade or replace their controller to work with the cameras.

As a general rule, I hate wireless cameras. Much better experience with wired cameras. Even when using WiFi cameras you still have to power them somehow, and that means a wire (or a battery that needs to be replaced periodically).

Actually, now that I have been onsite the existing Unifi system is part of Toast. So, I am going to add a new Unifi system for a couple of access points and cameras.

The have a Comcast business router and Toast is connected to it and a couple of home grade netgear access points are in place for the employees and guest networks.

Other than being connected to the same internet connection I believe the Toast equipment (POS, Access points, etc) is all handled by Toast.

When planning the new Unifi system is there anything I should be concerned with with regards to the Toast stuff already present?

 

[timeshifter]

Sounds like you'd want to have the network split right after the modem or router, your's on one side and theirs on another. They would be on separate subnets of VLANs. If they have a POS system you want to stay off of that for credit card company compliance reason.

 

[Velvis]

Sounds like you'd want to have the network split right after the modem or router, your's on one side and theirs on another. They would be on separate subnets of VLANs. If they have a POS system you want to stay off of that for credit card company compliance reason.

Previously I have used USGs to replace the comcast router. In this case I don't want to remove the comcast router and I know the USGs are no longer made. What do you recommend to place after the comcast router?

Also does Unifi offer a cloud based backup of cameras or does it require one of their hard drive based video recorders?

 

[mmerry]

Previously I have used USGs to replace the comcast router. In this case I don't want to remove the comcast router and I know the USGs are no longer made. What do you recommend to place after the comcast router?

Also does Unifi offer a cloud based backup of cameras or does it require one of their hard drive based video recorders?

No cloud-based backup. People have been begging for it for years. The Unifi Express is probably the replacement for the USG.

UniFi Express - Ubiquiti Store

Impressively compact UniFi Cloud Gateway and WiFi 6 access point that runs UniFi Network. Powers an entire network or simply meshes as an access point.

store.ui.com

There is a GitHub project out there for backing up Protect. I have yet to try it.

GitHub - ep1cman/unifi-protect-backup: Python tool to backup unifi event clips in realtime

Python tool to backup unifi event clips in realtime - ep1cman/unifi-protect-backup

github.com

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Toast likes to ship and manage their own network equipment. I can't blame them, as so many "businesses" have mix matched systems that can cause problems.

We just onboarded a fancy restaurant up in MA, they have Toast, and Toast has mixed Meraki (edge device) and Netgear switches in place behind it, and Unifi APs. //shrug

Their Meraki had its WAN port just uplinked to the Comcast gateway LAN port pulling a 10.1.10.xx address. We manage the REST of the network, office computers, IoT, so we put the DM Pro and Unifi switches and APs there...with the DM Pro pulling the static public IP.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Previously I have used USGs to replace the comcast router. In this case I don't want to remove the comcast router and I know the USGs are no longer made. What do you recommend to place after the comcast router?

The UXG Lite is actually the direct replacement for the old USG 3P.

Gateway Lite - Ubiquiti Store

A compact and powerful UniFi gateway with a full suite of advanced routing and security features.

store.ui.com

The USG 3P did not have a built in Unifi controller. The UXG Lite also does not...which is a matching feature.

The Unifi Express has a built in Unifi controller, it's just a baby version of the Dream Machine/Dream Router. Certainly can use it in place of the USG 3P also. Just realize the limitations of amount of devices....it's for really small networks.

 

[HCHTech]

Wouldn't this be a textbook case for having more than one public static IP? You could add a small WAN switch and connect your UXG there and configure it to pull the 2nd public IP directly - no double-NATing that way, right? Everything behind the UXG is yours and Toast can have everything else. You'd have to have Comcast enable their pseudo-bridge-mode, and Toast would have to reconfigure their WAN to pull the first public IP directly. I think, anyway - haha.

 

[timeshifter]

no double-NATing that way

I stumble upon setups all the time that are double NAT but other than feeling icky I haven't noticed any problems and the clients haven't reported issues.

 

[Velvis]

The UXG Lite is actually the direct replacement for the old USG 3P.

Gateway Lite - Ubiquiti Store

A compact and powerful UniFi gateway with a full suite of advanced routing and security features.

store.ui.com

The USG 3P did not have a built in Unifi controller. The UXG Lite also does not...which is a matching feature.

The Unifi Express has a built in Unifi controller, it's just a baby version of the Dream Machine/Dream Router. Certainly can use it in place of the USG 3P also. Just realize the limitations of amount of devices....it's for really small networks.

What are your thoughts on the Dream Wall? I had never heard of it until the other day on Ubiquiti's website. Looking at it, it seems like a good candidate to run that off the comcast modem and use it as a wifi access point and then run 10 or so POE cameras and a couple more POE APs directly connected to it.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

The Dream Walls to me...seemed more like a "fancy concept".
Could look cool, being an AP, you'd want it out in the open. I don't like burying APs in closets.
But take a look at how ethernet runs get to it...and think about that if you're doing it in an open area. That ..and limited expansion of ETH runs, is what always kept me from pulling the trigger on one.