Working on computers with illegal software.

[lawson_jl]

I'm starting to see more and more computers with not only illegal software on them but also people using limewire like P2P apps to download music and movies. It appears bittorrent is too complecated for the average user to figure out so I havent' seen alot of that.

I run into two types of customers with illegal software, those who know and thoses who don't know.

I recently fixed a computer for a couple who bought the PC from antoher "computer tech" who sold it to them and didn't give them any discs with the computer. They had Windows XP Pro Corprate, Office 2003, Photoshop, McAfee etc. They said that's the way it came. I told them that the software on their computer was illegal but I fixed their spyware infection any. I told them to call the guy they bought it from and have him "make it right" with them. I'm sure they never did and I've never heard from them again.

Then there are people who use P2P and bittorrent to steal music and movies. If they have any questions like how do i burn this to cd, dvd, etc I refush to help them.

Lately I've been thinking of just telling people with obvious illegal software on their PC that I can't work on their computer because of the illegal software on the PC. I also wonder if when I find a computer with an illegal copy of windows if i should require them to buy a legit copy before I work on it, even though they may be a victum. Same goes for other software.

How do you handle situations with illegal software?

 

[Majestic]

Honestly,

If a user happens to have pirated software on their computer it's not my business. If they need me to do maintenance on their computer including removing viruses, defragmenting their hard drives, cleaning up temp files, the registry etc.. I have no issues with that. I won't be installing pirated software but I certainly don't have any moral dilemmas about working on a computer with pirated software as I believe that's their issue not mine.

I'm actually for limewire as in my experience I've seen more albums bought amongst my peers than "stolen" as a result of being able to hear some of the songs first, but that's just my stance.. It's always a controversial topic.

To directly answer your question about how I handle these situations it's that I don't see it as a situation at all unless I am asked to install pirated software on their computer personally. Otherwise I'm doing as they ask and cleaning their computer. I would never refuse business simply because the user had pirated software on their computer unless they asked me to instal la pirated version of windows or other software on it.

Regards,

Majestic

 

[atlanticjim]

Illegal software.

In my opinion, Limewire and the other P2P applications are not illegal software but legitimate programs for sharing digital files. There are some musicians who actively share their music on these networks (my son and his garage band being one of them). I look at these apps as tools, which can be used for good or bad. If my clients are using P2P to pirate files that is their own business. I always warn them that filesharing is like walking cross town in NYC, you are relatively safe if you know where you are going and have protection (antivirus, antimalware). And I print this on the "Recommendations" part of the invoice "Update and renew your antivirus/antimalware, keep your antivirus/antimalware programs scheduled to run at least weekly."

However, I have had a few clients with machines gifted to them with pirated copies of Windows which locked up with authentication. If there is a sticker with a valid code, I just jellybean it and all is well. If there is no valid code, I stop what I am doing and call the client and give them the option of buying an authentic OS from me. I personally don't care about the illegality of it being pirated, it is just that I cannot do quality work on a machine that will not update.

About them being a victim. Caveat Emptor I say, this is a live and learn world. I build my business and can charge what I do because of my quality work and reliability. The jerks and thieves and brothers-in-law just make my business better.

 

[MrMille]

Lately I've been thinking of just telling people with obvious illegal software on their PC that I can't work on their computer because of the illegal software on the PC. I also wonder if when I find a computer with an illegal copy of windows if i should require them to buy a legit copy before I work on it, even though they may be a victum. Same goes for other software.

Do you think you are a cop?

Kiddie porn, that's it okay!, you only report kiddie porn.

Well that and any snuff movies you might see.

Apart from that, just keep yourself and what you see to yourself, unless you aspire to being a member...

 

[gunslinger]

I'll agree with Majestic on this one. If someone happens to have pirated software on their computer it's not my business. I don't care what they do with their computer.

I'll also say this: I believe there is not one tech on here that has been in the business for a while that has not used "questionable" software at some point to fix a computer. Or to try something out past the 30 day trial.

I cannot do quality work on a machine that will not update.

I can and have. I have yet to see a Windows machine that I could not update by one means or another.

 

[MHCG]

I've never had a customer with a pirated OS, but I'd probably recommend they buy a legit copy so they can get their updates without my help. Other than that, it's really not my business. I don't know of a single computer guy that is completely innocent when it comes to this topic.

 

[seedubya]

I'll always comment on pirated software but not lecture. If the lack of a licence is causing me a problem then I'll insist that a licence is acquired. If it's not causing me a problem then I'll be sure to inform them that I'll fix the current problem but I can't offer ongoing support on pirated software because I've no idea of whether it will be entirely functional.

 

[Jory]

If I'm not mistaken the last time we talked about this I said I didn't care, and I still don't. Beyond my personal liability I have no interest in the matter, but I very rarely see pirated stuff so I guess it's just a non-issue for me. If it's causing me some type of problem I just won't work on it, but they're still getting charged a diagnostic fee.

Software piracy plays an important part in the technology ecosystem. For example:

1. How many of the gamers here seriously put their CD in the drive every time instead of finding a no-cd crack?

2. What about the high school student who wants to be a graphic designer, but can't afford photoshop? Should we tell that kid he's wrong for not denying himself the ability to learn using the industry standard tool because he can't afford hundreds of dollars?

3. How many of you have bought software from a company that later went out of business and now their stuff is abandonware? How would you get a copy of software you paid for if you ever lost it?

4. What about software that gets a major upgrade you don't like and now there is no way to buy the older version?

5. What about poverty stricken countries? Should we tell them they're not allowed to compete globally using standard tools because people can't afford to spend an entire years income on one piece of software, or for that matter provide no way for them to buy it at all even if they could afford it?


I think software companies understand all of that, but they can't be perceived as encouraging piracy. If you look at the different copyright protection schemes they're generally geared towards letting honest people know their copy is illegitimate, and not actually trying to seriously stop you from bypassing/using it. Given how fast stuff is cracked I'm guessing the attempts at real protection are trivial. They just want to draw that proverbial line, and don't really care how easy it is to cross. Of course that's not always the case, but it's something to consider.

It can also be argued that mass piracy is required if you want a monopoly on a segment of the software market. Photoshop is a great example of this. It's probably one of the most pirated pieces of software, but yet Adobe hasn't really done much about it. That's probably because they've enjoyed their product name becoming a verb even if they have to discourage it's use to protect their trademark. Piracy allowed them to lock down the photo editing market. The fact is a lot of people won't pay for it and the lack of compatibility would hurt Adobe. It's pretty much the same deal with Microsoft. They don't really attempt to do anything to protect Office because they need that lock-in, and copy protection in Windows is just an annoyance. The only time you hear about news where microsoft had some pirates sued/arrested is when they were straight up counterfeiting their products (i.e. trying to convince people they're legit).

Maybe my ideological view of the world skews my perception of the matter, but generally I think most people are honest and want to pay for things to support the products that help them in some way. It can be annoying to be one of the guys following the rules when a lot of people don't know, or don't care about them though. With that said it's probably common for computer techs to dislike piracy since we've seen or heard about people in the business making money unethically, but those guys are not pirates, they're just assholes. Try not to mix the two up.

 

[nonchalant]

Theres nothing illegal about working on or repairing a PC with pirated software installed.

I insist the customer purchase a copy of Windows if I need to format to repair but apart from that its their business.

I also refuse to install any software that they dont have a legitimate cd/key for.

 

[TimeCode]

I've never had a customer with a pirated OS

This has got to be a joke!!! There is no way that's possible. How long have you been in business?

I'll always comment on pirated software but not lecture. If the lack of a licence is causing me a problem then I'll insist that a licence is acquired. If it's not causing me a problem then I'll be sure to inform them that I'll fix the current problem but I can't offer ongoing support on pirated software because I've no idea of whether it will be entirely functional.

Exactly!

I also refuse to install any software that they dont have a legitimate cd/key for.

And you are correct in this. If you do, your business could be on the line. I don't install any unlicensed software. I admit that I have on occasion "jellybeaned" (I'm going to start using that more often... Thanks, Atlantic Jim!) a license by using a free version at a business when the license clearly states that it is for home use only.

I have a laptop on my bench right now with a bogus version of Office 2002. So what am I going to do about it? I fixed the problem (2 Gig .pst file) and when I return it today I am going to tell my client about the problem. If she buys a full version, great. If not, its her problem, not mine.

 

[geekhelp4u]

When it comes to music and movies, there is not much I can say - I have done the same... and who is to say they did not rip it from a copy they own. When it comes to software - I usually recommend a free alternative to what they are trying to use illegally. If they have an illegal copy of photoshop, I recommend GIMP or paint.net. If it is a movie player, I ask them to try VLC. For most users the free software is not only easier to obtain, they also find it easier to use. If they are computer smart, but know jack about the hardware - I simply laugh at the illegal install! I could care less, but I sure as heck will not help them trouble shoot issues with the illegal stuff.

 

[vr6rafal]

Unless the pirated software is causing problems with the computer then I would have a problem, but other than that, its not my business what they have on their computers.

But like others here, I would mention to the client that they indeed have pirated software installed, maybe they don't even know about it, most of my clients are very computer illiterate they wouldn't even know where to get pirated software.

 

[MHCG]

This has got to be a joke!!! There is no way that's possible. How long have you been in business?

No joke, I've never had a customer with a pirated OS. Software sure, but that's not my problem. I've been in business about 9 months.

 

[JRoss]

I don't get too high and mighty about this issue. In many cases, I have seen other shops install from some type of image and not change the license key even though there is a valid sticker on the side of the box. I have also seen the computers sold by small-time builders with illegal OSs. In those cases I have called Microsoft, explained my clients situation, including the fact that they paid for a license. I don't point fingers and ask that Microsoft contact my clients for any information regarding the original builder/seller. In almost all of these cases, I get my clients up and running legally without having to purchase an OS.

I don't install any burnt software for clients, period. I try and direct clients to freeware versions (openoffice.org being the most common) which I will gladly install and configure for them if it seems the software will suite their needs. I see lots of people with full blown burnt adobe so they can create PDFs from other documents. I suggest they get legal and use a program like CutePDF. Most just are not savvy or knowledgeable enough to know there is a simple legal alternative.

 

[nudone]

i know of a local competitor (they have a shop, i don't) that is more than willing to do his customers a 'favour' by installing a 'free' version of xp for them - if they buy a new machine from the shop.

when i say 'free' i mean 'illegal'. the store owner explained to me that it was 'technically' legal if i could supply him with a valid serial from another computer i owned. i know this isn't 'technically' legal at all - not that i argued with the guy - i just nodded and said "that's wonderful, i didn't know that".

so, what's my point? well, there are a total of four (small) computer shops within 2 miles of my location. i'm pretty confident i'd get the same 'favour' from each shop if i asked. but muggins here, like everyone else that commented, won't install pirated software.

i think we have to turn a blind eye to it when it's there on a customer's machine. if the customer is adamant about using their 'borrowed' software, i explain they can install such things when i've gone. even saying that makes me feel like i'm some kind of pious freak.

 

[seedubya]

@nudone - you might have to turn a blind eye to your customers but not to your competitors. If they are installing pirated software and it's affecting your business report them MS.

 

[purple_minion]

@nudone - you might have to turn a blind eye to your customers but not to your competitors. If they are installing pirated software and it's affecting your business report them MS.

Agreed, they have an unfair advantage by having lower prices etc. What you do at home is one thing, but they are distributing illegal software. They need to have a key in hand as well as a cd to technically install it. No cd but have a key, no dice. Same the other way. Most don't mind if you install the same version with their key if they lost their cd, but it's still not technically legal as I understand it. YMMV.

Anyway, bottom line is that they are not playing on a level field.

 

[nudone]

true. i know they are in the wrong. i'm not going to report them though. mainly because of the trouble it will cause me. i prefer to think that it's better to let them carry on down their path - they've already got a bit of a bad reputation so i hope that just helps to make me look better.

i often tend to be the alternative that their unhappy customers turn to. so, i think it helps that people can see there's a difference between what we do. without them, some people might not realise how bad things can be.

maybe that is a crap argument. anyway, i don't want the hassle it will cause me if they were investigated. maybe if i had my own shop i'd think differently.

 

[iptech]

I'll always comment on pirated software but not lecture. If the lack of a licence is causing me a problem then I'll insist that a licence is acquired. If it's not causing me a problem then I'll be sure to inform them that I'll fix the current problem but I can't offer ongoing support on pirated software because I've no idea of whether it will be entirely functional.

That's my philosophy also, if you take the moral high ground where do you draw the line? If the client is paying you with money that's he's earned on a blackmarket deal do you refuse the work and report him to the IRS?

 

[gunslinger]

i know they are in the wrong. i'm not going to report them though. mainly because of the trouble it will cause me.

Agreed. If you rat someone out chances are real good they will counter and maybe even get a few more of their friends to do the same thing. I personaly don't need that kind of heat.

That's my philosophy also, if you take the moral high ground where do you draw the line? If the client is paying you with money that's he's earned on a blackmarket deal do you refuse the work and report him to the IRS?

Exactly. Its not my job to be the computer police.