Windows XP POSReady Repair install ?

[Big Jim]

I have a POS terminal here, running Windows XP POSReady 2009 embedded.

It won't boot, it says the SYSTEM hive is missing or corrupt.
I have tried copying the hive file from another installation and that will boot windows but immediately throws up an error in relation to password and reboots.
as far as I am aware there are no registry backups on this machine, but perhaps they are stored somewhere else that I haven't looked ?

The issue with this version of windows is, when you boot from the installation media, it is a newer 7/10/11 style of interface with mouse support etc, there is no option for a repair install. there isn't even an option to install over the top of the existing installation.
It just wants to format the drive.


Do I have any other options here ?

 

[Sky-Knight]

The system hive is the component you need to perform a repair. If it's gone, that usually means hard disk failure. Assuming you haven't replaced the disk, the more you muck with it the worse things will be.

You need matching installation media, with the restored system hive you have and maybe it can do a repair install? But beware...

C:\windows\system32\config\system = HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM
C:\windows\system32\config\software = HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE

Security... SAM... the rest repeat.

You LOST the entirety of the registry under that system folder, which is the bulk of the machine's configuration. If you don't have a backup, that install is done and the only reliable fix is to rebuild it. And I don't mean a repair install, I mean fresh Windows, reinstall software, restore files, etc.

You cannot just take copies of those files from other systems, they are unique to the system in question.

 

[Philippe]

but perhaps they are stored somewhere else that I haven't looked ?

C:\Windows\Repair ?

If System Restore is on, you can copy the registry files from something like:
C:\System Volume Information\_restore{D86480E3-73EF-47BC-A0EB-A81BE6EE3ED8}\RP1\Snapshot

More info ->

How to recover from a corrupted registry that prevents Windows XP from starting

 

[Big Jim]

Yeh the original drive is showing bad sectors, I assumed that was the reason for the corruption.

I have cloned the drive to a spare for testing.
I can get windows to boot with a system hive from a clean install. (Albeit with the error I mentioned above)

There is no backup in the repair folder.
I'll have a look to see if system restore has a copy tomorrow.

Are there any tools out there that might be able to scan and fix the damaged file?

I have imported it on another machine and it imported without reporting any errors, however it didn't seem to have a lot of entries in it.

File size is about 8Mb, which is larger than the one from a clean install.

 

[HCHTech]

I have to say, my life has gotten easier since I stopped offering "hail mary" attempts at getting old stuff like this back and running. We got a new little beer distributor client just last week that had 2 XP computers still running an old POS system because their new cloud-based POS couldn't handle per-client margin calculations. Like 3 days after signing, they called about one of those XP computers failing. I looked, but it was clear that computer was done. 6 blown caps on the motherboard and a failed power supply. I did my best to convince them spending time on this old system was not cost effective. Incredibly, they agreed to bite the bullet and make due with the new system's limitation. Good for them.

 

[lan101]

I have to say, my life has gotten easier since I stopped offering "hail mary" attempts at getting old stuff like this back and running. We got a new little beer distributor client just last week that had 2 XP computers still running an old POS system because their new cloud-based POS couldn't handle per-client margin calculations. Like 3 days after signing, they called about one of those XP computers failing. I looked, but it was clear that computer was done. 6 blown caps on the motherboard and a failed power supply. I did my best to convince them spending time on this old system was not cost effective. Incredibly, they agreed to bite the bullet and make due with the new system's limitation. Good for them.

I like the wording you used there. Hail mary attempts lol...that's pretty much what they are. Unless they have some sort of image backup that can be restored to a different unit it's pretty much done for. I've had a few times where Aomei backupper worked really well for me. With the pro version you can get the image often times to work on another unit with different hardware. I've only ever used that on 1 or 2 xp computers where it worked out. Usually with win 7, 8, 10 or 11 it's been fairly reliable...but the key is already having the aomei image before the disaster lol.

 

[Big Jim]

To be clear I see this one as more of a personal challenge rather than a promise to the customer.

I made it clear that it would be unlikely we could recover the system, they want the data from the EPOS software though.

I'm just trying to see what is possible before I reinstall.

Any ideas why POS embedded XP doesn't offer a repair option like the other versions do ?
Or any way to get a slightly different version that does offer repair as an option ?

 

[Sky-Knight]

The repair in Windows XP doesn't work if the SYSTEM or SOFTWARE hives are damaged, those files are damaged or unreadable and the repair option simply never appears.

 

[sapphirescales]

I did my best to convince them spending time on this old system was not cost effective. Incredibly, they agreed to bite the bullet and make due with the new system's limitation. Good for them.

Unless you foolishly decided to take this system on into your managed service, all you have to do in these circumstances is charge them accordingly. I'll take on any job if the client is willing to pay for it. The jobs aren't the problem - the clients are. I'll take a difficult job for a decent client way before I take an easy job from a bad client. By a bad client I mean they're cheap, unrealistic, blame you for their own stupid decisions that you recommend against making, take forever to pay (if you extend credit or allow net terms). I keep the XP computers running for my local university's lab and I tell them flat out it's a minimum of $1,000 any time I have to touch one of their systems. That gives me plenty of margin to diagnose whatever the problem is and get new parts for it. I also build them new XP machines when necessary. Companies will pay for old systems. Check out NIXSYS. I'm actually cheap in comparison.

 

[HCHTech]

In my experience, there are three types of businesses that tend to find themselves with the problem of maintaining older hardware. The first is cheap in general, will never understand the value of having an actual IT budget and just flat-out rejected upgrading back when it was possible just to avoid the cost. The second are doing something very specialized where there IS no upgrade path, or at least not a reasonable one, and the third are on the verge of failing anyway because there just isn't the cash available to upgrade.

I'll take on the job for the second kind - I just did one last summer for a little company that coated wire. They had a Vista computer responsible for running the machine they used to perform the coating. Apparently it would have cost north of $500K to completely gut and replace their line with new equipment. They weren't failing, but there was no way the business could absorb that. The owner was counting the days to his retirement and wanted to make this the next owner's problem - haha. We actually prepared two machines as part of that fix so they would have a backup if the new/old machine doing the job after the repair failed.

The beer distributor with an old XP POS system that they kept around just because the new one they already bought didn't have the functionality of the old one was really in the middle - they were just avoiding the task of revamping their billing. That machine's failure just made it reasonable to proceed with the task they were avoiding.

all you have to do in these circumstances is charge them accordingly.

Amen to that!

 

[sapphirescales]

The first is cheap in general, will never understand the value of having an actual IT budget and just flat-out rejected upgrading back when it was possible just to avoid the cost. The second are doing something very specialized where there IS no upgrade path, or at least not a reasonable one, and the third are on the verge of failing anyway because there just isn't the cash available to upgrade.

Yeah I definitely agree with this assessment but you should always quote them anyway. I can't tell you the number of times I was surprised that someone was willing to pay to have an old system kept running even if they're cheap because they don't want to have to learn something new. I can handle a little bit of complaining about the price so long as they pay but the more they complain the more I charge them so they'd be smart to keep it to themselves! It's stressful dealing with a cheapwad who keeps complaining about price so when they do that I just quote them higher hoping they'll either go away or make it worth the stress of dealing with their cheapness. Either way I win.

They had a Vista computer responsible for running the machine they used to perform the coating.

Vista? I find it hard to believe they couldn't get it running on Windows 10 (x32). Vista is so similar under the hood to 7/8/10 they're basically the same operating system because they share the same code base. DOS/3.1, 95/98/ME, 2000/XP, and Vista/7/8/10 are basically all cross compatible with a little bit of overlap with DOS/3.1 and 95. 11 is also extremely similar to 10 with the exception that there's no 32 bit version so I put that in its own category. I have quite a few clients who are completely screwed when 10 loses support because there's just no way to get 16 bit applications to run on a 64 bit operating system unless you do a VM.

 

[Philippe]

Are there any tools out there that might be able to scan and fix the damaged file?

Try this (I've never used it):

MiTeC Homepage

UBCD4WIN include a nice tool: "Registry Restore Wizard".

 

[Big Jim]

In my experience, there are three types of businesses that tend to find themselves with the problem of maintaining older hardware. The first is cheap in general, will never understand the value of having an actual IT budget and just flat-out rejected upgrading back when it was possible just to avoid the cost. The second are doing something very specialized where there IS no upgrade path, or at least not a reasonable one, and the third are on the verge of failing anyway because there just isn't the cash available to upgrade.

I'll take on the job for the second kind - I just did one last summer for a little company that coated wire. They had a Vista computer responsible for running the machine they used to perform the coating. Apparently it would have cost north of $500K to completely gut and replace their line with new equipment. They weren't failing, but there was no way the business could absorb that. The owner was counting the days to his retirement and wanted to make this the next owner's problem - haha. We actually prepared two machines as part of that fix so they would have a backup if the new/old machine doing the job after the repair failed.

The beer distributor with an old XP POS system that they kept around just because the new one they already bought didn't have the functionality of the old one was really in the middle - they were just avoiding the task of revamping their billing. That machine's failure just made it reasonable to proceed with the task they were avoiding.


Amen to that!

IME a lot of people treat computers like white goods, they just expect it to keep working forever without understanding the complexity of a computer.

This particular machine belongs to a pub, AFAIK it is there only POS it has very important information stored on it, I noticed when it came in that it had a USB stick in it, the owner said, yeh that is for backups but that stopped working years ago. There is no helping these kind of people. I would hope that a lesson had been learned but probably not.

 

[britechguy]

I noticed when it came in that it had a USB stick in it, the owner said, yeh that is for backups but that stopped working years ago. There is no helping these kind of people.

Let's hope that the old saw, "Once burned, twice shy," applies in respect to how critical it is to have a functioning, cyclical backup protocol in place (and, of course, functioning).

 

[Big Jim]

Let's hope that the old saw, "Once burned, twice shy," applies in respect to how critical it is to have a functioning, cyclical backup protocol in place (and, of course, functioning).

given that the POS is an intel Atom with DDR2 and doesn't support 64bit os/apps I'm not even going to bother trying to explain the virtues of regular backups to this particular customer.

 

[britechguy]

I'm not even going to bother trying to explain the virtues of regular backups to this particular customer.

Why not? I'm presuming the device you described has now been declared dead. The need for backups will apply to its replacement, in all probability. But if they're not doing this for their other computers in the business, they need to do that, too (and it wouldn't shock me if they weren't).

 

[HCHTech]

Plus, if you throw in the towel and give up trying to get them to do the right thing, it's just a downward spiral. They get the idea that your ideas are just suggestions, don't agree, you shrug your shoulders and think "just another thing they won't value". Pretty soon, you stop even suggesting things, etc. I've been down this road a few times early in my business, it's not pleasant for you OR the client -- you might as well fire them now before something happens that you get blamed for.

I always keep pushing. If they don't have backup and need backup, I mention it every time I have to do work for them. Eventually you wear them down and they give in. Then they are less questioning of the next thing you recommend. Mostly.

 

[britechguy]

They get the idea that your ideas are just suggestions, don't agree, you shrug your shoulders and think "just another thing they won't value".

And this is another perfect example of why, "The customer is always right," has always been wrong, especially when it comes to hiring anyone with technical expertise (and I don't mean just IT technical expertise). If "the customer" actually knew what to do and what made the most sense, they would not be hiring someone else to do it, in all probability.

It is the responsibility of anyone in a position of technical expert to give the client what they believe to be best practice advice that is tailored to the situation(s) at hand. Some of that advice is strictly suggestion, but others, not, and it should be made abundantly clear which is which when a mixed bag is being offered.

We do not serve our clients well, at all, when we adopt the attitude that whatever the client wants is precisely what we give them. That will be possible in the majority of cases, but where it isn't, standing one's ground and potentially parting ways as a result of that is essential. And that's to protect yourself as much as it is to protect the client.