"Windows is dead"

[gunslinger]

Exactly.. If it wasn't for steve jobs stealing people's ideas, nobody ever would have thought of those ideas or improved computers in any way. Out of the billions of people on this earth, not one of them could possibly have done what apple did. They are such an amazing, innovative, paradigm-shifting company, we may never see the likes of again.

If jesus christ came down to earth today, he could not possibly create a computer as well designed as a mac.

...

...


I think you exceeded the threshold for fanboy title.. I'll let you know when I come up with something better.

Ah and the ignorant Apple hate starts. Its funny, you call me a fanboy yet I have no problems giving Microsoft, Google and others credit when its due yet you cannot ever give Apple credit for anything, ever. But I'm the fanboy...lol Hypocrite much? I guess only people who like Apple can be fanboys. Kinda like only whites can be racists.

It must be hard going through life with a completely irrational and unfounded hate for something or someone.


Anyway, back to topic. I don't think Windows is dead by a long shot. I think things are changing and they will end up having a much smaller % of the market in the coming years.

 

[trevm999]

If it was not for Apples "revolutionary designs" all desktop computers would still be beige boxes with floppy drives and your phone would still look like the Nokia 3000. As for the expensive battery replacement: I think most people will be upgrading computer long before the battery dies. Once I tell them about the hundreds of dollars they will save in virus removal over the life of the computer and the fact that its a metal computer VS cheap plastic fisher price garbage. Just sayin'.

Yes, I don't steer people wanting a Mac to the PCs, I just try to steer towards the non Retina Macbooks. And I do take back a bit of what I said about Apple's revolutionary designs (Somedays I wish I could punch Apple in the face). Generally, Macbooks are pretty easy to work on. In 30 seconds you have it open and see the board and components. Most cables are accessible so you can isolate the issue easily making diagnosing a breeze. Replacing the main board only takes 10-15 minutes, and I'm sure some techs can do it in 5-7. I think my favourite model is the White 2009 Macbooks because you can easily remove the DC board without taking out the logic board and the LCD can be easily replaced. My only wish is that the keyboard and power button could be easily replaced. What I am upset about are the newest additions. Removing old adhesive and putting on new strips can be a pain in the new iMacs. And the whole battery in the top case ticks me off.

I agree that most of the people who are buying the retina macbooks are going to be upgrading in three years, but those macbooks might still be around for several years. I still get 2007 Macbooks in that people want fixed up before they sell them.



And sorry because I keep derailing the thread. Time for my little blurb to bring it back.


I also agree that Windows is not close to dead. Windows 8 is a sign that Windows is concerned about appealing to home users. Perhaps they feel quite confident on the business side of things, but they should not err on the side of making things more challenging for businesses.

 

[trevm999]

Or, maybe I should have said

Of course Windows is dead! All the time, people who come in to buy laptops look at Windows 8 and say "well if I have to learn a new interface anyways, do you have anything that doesn't get viruses and is $400"?
Ubuntu FTW

 

[gunslinger]

Or, maybe I should have said

Of course Windows is dead! All the time, people who come in to buy laptops look at Windows 8 and say "well if I have to learn a new interface anyways, do you have anything that doesn't get viruses and is $400"?
Ubuntu FTW

Yes I do, its called an iPad. I can get you one for $319


You're welcome.

 

[Debunker13]

Well Windows 8 isn't making any headway into the business field, especially medical and education. Their appeal to home users makes them fall flat on their faces, their real money comes from enterprise. We'll have to see if 8.1 improves anything (booting to the desktop and bringing back the home button). And enterprise users don't care about 12second boot times, they want thing to be the same fresh, friendly and familiar as their used to.

 

[gunslinger]

Well Windows 8 isn't making any headway into the business field, especially medical and education. Their appeal to home users makes them fall flat on their faces, their real money comes from enterprise. We'll have to see if 8.1 improves anything (booting to the desktop and bringing back the home button). And enterprise users don't care about 12second boot times, they want thing to be the same fresh, friendly and familiar as their used to.

Exactly. I'm still waiting to see that performance increase everyone is talking about. Apparently these people have never been on a fast Windows 7 machine. Sure its snappy because there is no "aero". Who cares when the average person can't even figure out how to use it?

 

[trevm999]

Yes I do, its called an iPad. I can get you one for $319


You're welcome.

Haha, yeah, that's the only thing we'd actually be able to sell that person.

Exactly. I'm still waiting to see that performance increase everyone is talking about. Apparently these people have never been on a fast Windows 7 machine. Sure its snappy because there is no "aero". Who cares when the average person can't even figure out how to use it?

On my home machine, I run Windows 7 without aero, but I still noticed significant speed improvements when trying out Windows 8. But I noticed some things being slower, like if I wanted to open images in Windows traditional image viewer where I could do some minor editing, it would take longer than in Windows 7, so I figured they made some compromises somewhere along the line.

 

[brandonkick]

I think part of what apple "did so right" was simplify the experience.

The vast majority of all end users now get their kicks on youtube, follow a few news websites and check their email. That's pretty much it....

So a tablet of the likes of an iPad is a pretty great hardware implementation of those needs.

I think we can also look at the average intelligence level of people in the united states. I'm pretty sure that the average person in the U.S. is really of a substandard educational level and it is declining all the time. Blame whatever you want for that. I guess my point to all of this can be better visualized through the following:

Years ago calculators were very expensive, and not every student had one. In fact almost none of them had calculators. So in an upper level calculus class, you couldn't find the roots of an equation or solve a system of equations with a matrix by the push of a few buttons on a calculator. You ACTUALLY had to learn how to solve by factoring or in the case of a matrix you had to actually learn some linear algebra. You can learn how to work the calculator and obtain answers with no understanding of the math going on behind the scenes.

The same is true of an iPad. Windows (and every other GUI based OS) stared for the same reason. The average user was downright intimidated by the command line. Much like many are intimidated by upper level math. Both are for no real reason. Many people would find, that if they try, they can actually comprehend what is going on in either case.

People are getting lazier, they want everything streamline and simplified. I think you will find that there is a correlation between a decline in work ethic and intelligence. This might not be true in every case, but I've noticed a strong correlation like the one I've described.

And no, I'm not saying anything bad about apple or the people who buy apple's products

 

[gunslinger]

I think part of what apple "did so right" was simplify the experience.

The vast majority of all end users now get their kicks on youtube, follow a few news websites and check their email. That's pretty much it....

So a tablet of the likes of an iPad is a pretty great hardware implementation of those needs.

I think we can also look at the average intelligence level of people in the united states. I'm pretty sure that the average person in the U.S. is really of a substandard educational level and it is declining all the time. Blame whatever you want for that. I guess my point to all of this can be better visualized through the following:

Years ago calculators were very expensive, and not every student had one. In fact almost none of them had calculators. So in an upper level calculus class, you couldn't find the roots of an equation or solve a system of equations with a matrix by the push of a few buttons on a calculator. You ACTUALLY had to learn how to solve by factoring or in the case of a matrix you had to actually learn some linear algebra. You can learn how to work the calculator and obtain answers with no understanding of the math going on behind the scenes.

The same is true of an iPad. Windows (and every other GUI based OS) stared for the same reason. The average user was downright intimidated by the command line. Much like many are intimidated by upper level math. Both are for no real reason. Many people would find, that if they try, they can actually comprehend what is going on in either case.

People are getting lazier, they want everything streamline and simplified. I think you will find that there is a correlation between a decline in work ethic and intelligence. This might not be true in every case, but I've noticed a strong correlation like the one I've described.

And no, I'm not saying anything bad about apple or the people who buy apple's products

For the most part I agree with you. Apple took very powerful features and gave them a nice UI so the "average" "Normal" "Non-tech person" could do powerful things with their computer and did not have to depend on someone who spent their life in command line to do it. Thats not to say that Apple dumbed anything down. A person well versed with terminal commands can still do most everything they could with a Linux/Unix box. All the power is still there under the hood Apple just made it available to the masses and this pisses off a lot of "techs" because they no longer feel useful or needed. Apple took the mystery out of the computer. In the process took the wizardry away from the computer tech. This is the real reason most techs hate on Apple but their egos are to fragile for them to admit it.


People who buy Apple products are normally very big on doing a particular task, thing or job. They want their device to be reliable and if it should happen to look nice and be well made, all the better. They generally care very little about customizing their computer, adding extra stuff or bolting extra devices on their system. They also don't want their time spent running maintenance programs, antivirus programs, or anti-malware programs ect.


Call it getting lazy if you like but I have much rather drag and drop a bunch of files into a dir than bring up the command line and do it. I also like using the mouse more than the keyboard. The great part is I can do both, but for those who can't they have a choice. This is what scares some techs.

 

[phaZed]

All the power is still there under the hood Apple just made it available to the masses and this pisses off a lot of "techs" because they no longer feel useful or needed. Apple took the mystery out of the computer. In the process took the wizardry away from the computer tech. This is the real reason most techs hate on Apple but their egos are to fragile for them to admit it.

Without getting into a pissing match, that is a nice unsubstantiated theory, but it is far away from the reasons I, as a tech, dislike Apple.

How about:

- Apple is currently trying to kick you, the tech; current or established, out of Apple repairs entirely.
- Apple wants to be proprietary in hardware, software, and services as to limit competition and lock users into the "Apple Sphere". (Not good for consumers)
- Genuine, non-second-hand repair parts are virtually non existent - by design.
- The business practices, mainly patenting and "innovation" (or the lack of innovation) has been deplorable in the past and is so currently.
- Apple has, in the past, made moral decisions as to what is to be offered as far as Apps; a dangerous precedent for computing/internet.

... Just to name a few.

 

[(deleted)]

A computer is not a "Social revolution", I don't care what Steve Jobs, Balmer, or Linux enthuasiest say. A Computer is a tool that allows people to get work done. If it gets in the way of getting work done it's less useful. I fully expect people to wait until Microsoft pulls their head out of their collective fourth point of contact and makes Metro be optional. The PC is not the be-all-end-all of computing now a days and people realize they have other options (Ipads, Tablets, etc) so forcing change to leverage their monopoly to push people towards normalizing their tablet/phone offerings isn't going to work and will instead just cause problems for their main businesses as people put up with their old computer.

Wow Ccomp5950, well said!

 

[trevm999]

Without getting into a pissing match, that is a nice unsubstantiated theory, but it is far away from the reasons I, as a tech, dislike Apple.

How about:

- Apple is currently trying to kick you, the tech; current or established, out of Apple repairs entirely.
- Apple wants to be proprietary in hardware, software, and services as to limit competition and lock users into the "Apple Sphere". (Not good for consumers)
- Genuine, non-second-hand repair parts are virtually non existent - by design.
- The business practices, mainly patenting and "innovation" (or the lack of innovation) has been deplorable in the past and is so currently.
- Apple has, in the past, made moral decisions as to what is to be offered as far as Apps; a dangerous precedent for computing/internet.

... Just to name a few.

I mostly argee with that. I feel Mac computer are getting closer and closer to being like iPads and they just get swapped out. The profit margins for selling Apple computers are getting smaller and smaller, and it is a kick in the nuts when apple all of a sudden drops the prices, or releases an new product unexpededly. Despite that, 2 new apple warranty centres have opened up in my city (probably because we don't have an Apple store).

However, most consumers don't seem to mind. Maybe they will in the future when they suddenly realize all their computing is controlled by Apple. I'm sure we all have customers who want us to make all their computer decisions for them. Well, Apple is almost single handedly doing that for people, and people like that because they are intimidated by computers.

I just don't see why Apple hasn't added Mac Keeper to their blacklist yet.

As for the ease of using devices lowering intelligence, we've already seen the effects new technology has had. People used to have awesome memories, then paper was invented and easy to come by. Now people can't remember what they had for breakfast. Now you have a phone with you all that time so you just have to remember things long enough to get it into your phone. We are conditioned by our environment, our only way to use computers was the command line, most people would eventually learn to use it. However, that doesn't explain why 99% of the people on these forums and smart enough to figure things out on their own. While Joe Smoe the mechanic can't figure out how to install an inkjet cartridge. I don't think an iPad lowers people's intelligence, just conditions them to not have certain abilities.

 

[gunslinger]

I don't think an iPad lowers people's intelligence, just conditions them to not have certain abilities.

Kinda like todays cars are damn near impossible for the "average" end user to work on. But I don't see many complaining that we should go back to cars from the 40's without electronics in them. I don't know how to work on the central heating unit in my home but I like having climate control, and I don't think a fire place is better. Technology is simply doing what tech does.


@phaZed

From a pure techie standpoint I understand your concern. From a consumer/end user stand point Apple is a blessing. No expensive "tech" coming to their homes to remove malware. One place to take it to for warranty and repairs. High quality products and because the software is proprietary works seamlessly together. Again, most non-tech people could really care less if they can add 3 more HHDs later or change the video card out. As for the moral decisions although I agree with you some like that. If they don'y they are free to buy a PC or Android or install the distro de jour or Linux.

 

[phaZed]

From a pure techie standpoint I understand your concern. From a consumer/end user stand point Apple is a blessing. No expensive "tech" coming to their homes to remove malware. One place to take it to for warranty and repairs. High quality products and because the software is proprietary works seamlessly together.

I have to disagree here. Modern economics courses and common wisdom, if you are to believe them, state that the average person/consumer wins when there is more choice, not less. If you believe otherwise, would you agree that MORE federal government, or even a one-world government would be desirable? What you are looking forward to/asking for the future of Apple is the equivalent of a one-world government for computing. ** Another reason I stopped liking Apple. Apple used to be better, as a company, than it is now. Apple was the one that was standing against the IBM titans and undesirable monopolies and "walled garden's" of the 80's in their iconic 1984 Ad - Do they wish to perform the same mistakes they aimed to correct, now? At the end of that commercial they say "On January 24th, Apple Computer will introduce Macintosh. And you'll see why 1984 won't be like 1984." - My, how much has changed. Oh, Apple got a cease and desist letter for that commercial too (Ya, they ripped off the movie 1984).

Less or no choice means less innovation(Technological innovation) and higher prices, as is reflected by their product prices and in Apple's earnings (The pie graph which you posted a few weeks back.). The earnings are profit over the costs of production. The reason Apple is earning so much, despite not having killer volume (Not YoY for them, but the market as a whole), is because they over-charge their customers by a large percentage over production (Over 52% at last check). This doesn't make Apple a bad company just as Ferrari isn't a bad company for charging big $$ for their cars, but both companies can be considered "ridiculous" in that respect, agreed?



As for not needing an expensive tech to fix it, again, I have to disagree.

The extra costs included in the MSRP (as seen in earnings pie-chart) and the Apple care charges are not a cheap alternative to us techs IMO.

Look at their laptops and Apple care. If someone just shelled out $2500 for a 17" Macbook pro, Apple care costs $349 for 3 years. It DOES NOT protect against Theft, loss, damage caused by accidental drops, spills, or worn-out batteries (Defective batteries ARE covered). So what does it cover? $349 for what? Phone support (for an OS that is heralded for not being hard to use, rarely fails) and if a manufacturing defect exists after the first year? Hard drive replacements that aren't drop related?

When I look at it that way, $349 isn't getting you much. On top of that your still paying the premium price for the hardware that is realistically a $1500-$1800 item at most if it were not an Apple. For those prices, my services really look like a bargain over 3 years... I mean, I will do something like 10-14 virus removals for the arguably "extra" cost of owning an Apple with Apple care.
While I understand that Apple produces good solid products for a premium price, lets not kid ourselves that Apple prices are a "bargain" compared to the alternative of having occasional repair work performed.

 

[gunslinger]

I have to disagree here. Modern economics courses and common wisdom, if you are to believe them, state that the average person/consumer wins when there is more choice, not less. If you believe otherwise, would you agree that MORE federal government, or even a one-world government would be desirable? What you are looking forward to/asking for the future of Apple is the equivalent of a one-world government for computing. ** Another reason I stopped liking Apple. Apple used to be better, as a company, than it is now. Apple was the one that was standing against the IBM titans and undesirable monopolies and "walled garden's" of the 80's in their iconic 1984 Ad - Do they wish to perform the same mistakes they aimed to correct, now? At the end of that commercial they say "On January 24th, Apple Computer will introduce Macintosh. And you'll see why 1984 won't be like 1984." - My, how much has changed. Oh, Apple got a cease and desist letter for that commercial too (Ya, they ripped off the movie 1984).

Less or no choice means less innovation(Technological innovation) and higher prices, as is reflected by their product prices and in Apple's earnings (The pie graph which you posted a few weeks back.). The earnings are profit over the costs of production. The reason Apple is earning so much, despite not having killer volume (Not YoY for them, but the market as a whole), is because they over-charge their customers by a large percentage over production (Over 52% at last check). This doesn't make Apple a bad company just as Ferrari isn't a bad company for charging big $$ for their cars, but both companies can be considered "ridiculous" in that respect, agreed?



As for not needing an expensive tech to fix it, again, I have to disagree.

The extra costs included in the MSRP (as seen in earnings pie-chart) and the Apple care charges are not a cheap alternative to us techs IMO.

Look at their laptops and Apple care. If someone just shelled out $2500 for a 17" Macbook pro, Apple care costs $349 for 3 years. It DOES NOT protect against Theft, loss, damage caused by accidental drops, spills, or worn-out batteries (Defective batteries ARE covered). So what does it cover? $349 for what? Phone support (for an OS that is heralded for not being hard to use, rarely fails) and if a manufacturing defect exists after the first year? Hard drive replacements that aren't drop related?

When I look at it that way, $349 isn't getting you much. On top of that your still paying the premium price for the hardware that is realistically a $1500-$1800 item at most if it were not an Apple. For those prices, my services really look like a bargain over 3 years... I mean, I will do something like 10-14 virus removals for the arguably "extra" cost of owning an Apple with Apple care.
While I understand that Apple produces good solid products for a premium price, lets not kid ourselves that Apple prices are a "bargain" compared to the alternative of having occasional repair work performed.

Again, we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[codegreen]

So, what was this thread about again? Oh yes, Windows which may or may not be dying. Looks like Microsoft has lost yet another high-ranking executive, this time CFO Peter Klein: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/microsoft-cfo-exits-company-tops-earnings-expectations-1C9512386

Windows may just have a flesh wound, but I suspect Steve Ballmer isn't going to be around much longer. With each set-back Microsoft has, the calls for his resignation as CEO get just a bit louder.