Windows 10 2004 build

[britechguy]

They must like having to spend money for you to support that Windows Live Mail!

I don't use Windows Live Mail, but many of my blind or visually-impaired clients cling to it. I haven't had any significant issues with it; it still behaves pretty much like any basic e-mail client does.

But @fincoder's client has lucked out in having now had him ditch POP!

 

[fincoder]

she could just use web mail via the browser

And not have access to saved email folders and address book.

Switching them to IMAP at least allows them to start saving (or moving) email to a synced folder which allows easy change of email client. They probably won't though...

 

[Galdorf]

Another reason to drop POP is the fact that outlook updates cause first few msgs to delete and it takes forever to read them.
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...-crashes-deletes-mails-for-some-pop-accounts/

 

[britechguy]

POP3 has, for all practical intents and purposes, been a dead access protocol for years now.

I actually wish that e-mail client coders had intentionally phased out support for it. It is a horrible anachronism that has caused so many cases of heartache that would have been entirely avoidable had IMAP been being used instead.

I have yet to see any e-mail service provider permanently lose messages on their servers under their care. Professional data centers have backup protocols in place that we home and small business users could never have even if we wanted them. They're not going to lose this stuff.

Once POP messages are downloaded, and deleted from the server (which is the default behavior, and will eventually happen even if you put in a delete deferment) they're you're problem. And given how frequently many home and small business users have no backup protocol of their own in place (which is jaw-dropping at this stage of the game of personal computers having been around, and failing, for decades) I've seen years of email go up in proverbial smoke.

I will not even set up email using POP unless the service provider (and there are precious few) only supports POP access. And in the very rare occasion where that's the case, my first recommendation, made very strongly, is that a new email service provider be found ASAP, even if the original address is maintained and messages forwarded from it.

Say NO (abso-friggin'-lutely NO!) to POP!!

 

[GTP]

I still have tons of clients using POP.
POP email = easy setup = just works = happy client. 'nuff said.

 

[Larry Sabo]

... and faster (not waiting for IMAP folders to sync).

 

[Diggs]

I still have tons of clients using POP.
POP email = easy setup = just works = happy client. 'nuff said.

...and what do you tell them when their hard drive crashes and there is nothing on the POP email server?

 

[britechguy]

...and what do you tell them when their hard drive crashes and there is nothing on the POP email server?

Apparently, taking the long view is something some will not do. Also, what do you do when they decide to pick up a smartphone, or additional computer, or a tablet, and use POP on it, hopelessly de-synchronizing what messages they receive on each device (been there, done that, made the client aware of why it happened).

A few extra seconds of time are more than worth it for what IMAP gets you in terms of multiple device access, backup at the data center, and ability to ditch a computer or e-mail client at will and being able to set everything back up in seconds, sans any loss of anything.

As soon as most of my clients started using smartphones and/or tablets in addition to their PCs the first thing to go, if it was there in the first place, was POP email access. And how many of our clients, and particularly business clients, aren't using more than one device and changing to "the latest and greatest" with some frequency. All reasons to avoid POP like the plague.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Disposable endpoint ideology... it's a foreign concept it seems.

 

[britechguy]

Disposable endpoint ideology... it's a foreign concept it seems.

Well, if you work with assistive technology and screen readers in particular, the ability to jettison one thing for another on very short notice is often critical.

It is amazing how program X, which has been entirely accessible for years and years, undergoes a complete redesign and suddenly becomes virtually inaccessible - absolutely unusable. This has happened a lot with security suites, in particular, and many e-mail clients, too. Having the ability to dump one and adopt another as seamlessly as possible is a big, big deal.

When it comes to e-mail, ease of doing so is at the very top of the list of things one thinks about. And I've learned, the hard way, that being able to do this for users who are not using screen readers is every bit as critical. All it takes is one catastrophic HDD failure or really messy attempt to move old e-mail from one computer to another to learn that using a protocol (IMAP or Exchange are both fine) that allows picking up exactly where one left off with ease should be a major consideration.

 

[GTP]

 

[GTP]

...and what do you tell them when their hard drive crashes and there is nothing on the POP email server?

You already know what I tell them.
Have you heard the phrase "you can lead a horse to water...?"

 

[britechguy]

You already know what I tell them.
Have you heard the phrase "you can lead a horse to water...?"

You already know what to tell them if you have made them aware that they need to ditch POP, why, and have refused. But not otherwise.

And even then, although I'd dearly love to deliver the classic, "I told ya so!!," since they're a client I have to:

1. Feign sympathy.
2. Clean up the mess (which they'll pay for, and could have avoided having to pay for).

 

[Sky-Knight]

Time to drag this thread back on topic I guess...

I noticed this morning that most of my home gear was finally actually allowing 2004 to install via Windows Update. The few remaining machines that weren't so far have responded to the Microsoft Update Assistant.

So while my small collection of crap I use to keep my family online isn't much of a data point, it seems that MS has finally taken the gloves off 2004.

 

[britechguy]

As an additional data point, none of my HP laptops are yet in the "Download and install" state. I'll have to fire up the Toshiba and see if it might be.

I created 2004 install media shortly after the release, so when the "all clear" is given my updates will be done from that so that I don't have to download everything over and over again, only the most recent updates after the ISO had been created.

 

[Sky-Knight]

I tried the Windows Update Assistant on this machine last month, and it told me no.

I never tried the install USB stick to force the issue, that seemed... a bad idea in this case.

 

[britechguy]

Oh, I never try using bootable media (whether on USB or optical - which I haven't used in ages) to force a feature update on machines showing the "not quite ready" status.

But I have 5 machines in my household, and once they are showing the "Download and install" link, there's just no point in doing a download on each and every one that shows that status when I have the USB media already. It saves me a ton of "wait for download to complete" time.

 

[Sky-Knight]

I understand, I was just pointing out that if you're not sure if the machine is ready, the upgrade assistant will stop you if it isn't. I'm not sure if running setup.exe off install media does the same.

 

[britechguy]

I understand, I was just pointing out that if you're not sure if the machine is ready, the upgrade assistant will stop you if it isn't. I'm not sure if running setup.exe off install media does the same.

I'm not absolutely sure, either, but it seems that Microsoft has baked in quite a bit more checking to the Windows Update process for feature updates regardless of the channel being used.

You used to be able to use the Update Assistant or install media to force an update on hardware not deemed ready. If they've put that checking into the Update Assistant I'll lay money it's in the offline updater, too. The only difference might be if you are installing using the USB media with no internet connection. It's possible it might not be able to query then. I do know that I have seen hardware that was "deemed ready" but had not yet had a feature update applied have that status change back to "not quite ready" when telemetry revealed a previously unknown issue.

All in all, though, Microsoft is definitely trying to prevent updates to hardware they know may have stability issues with the current feature update until those have been addressed.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Yeah, but they aren't being very transparent as to the WHY... Which isn't helping. We need to be able to ID incompatible hardware that might be serviceable anymore while we have months to plan for its replacement. Not in the 9th inning as a release is dying.