Well, so much for Office 2021 being the last standalone version . . .

[britechguy]

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com...ew-of-microsoft-office-ltsc-2024/ba-p/4082963

Read far enough, and you find:

Office 2024 for consumers​

We are also planning to release a new version of on-premises Office for consumers later this year: Office 2024. Office 2024 will also be supported for five years with the traditional “one-time purchase” model. We do not plan to change the price for these products at the time of the release. We will announce more details about new features included in Office 2024 closer to general availability.

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.
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FAQ​

Q: Will the next version of Office have a Mac version?

A: Yes, the next version of Office will have both Windows and Mac versions for both commercial and consumer.


Q: Will the next version of Office be supported on Windows 10?

A: Yes, Office LTSC 2024 will be supported on Windows 10 and Windows 10 LTSC devices (with the exception of Arm devices, which will require Windows 11).


Q: Will the next version support both 32- and 64-bit?

A: Yes, the next version of Office will ship both 32-and 64-bit versions.

 

[Rosco]

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com...ew-of-microsoft-office-ltsc-2024/ba-p/4082963

Read far enough, and you find:

Office 2024 for consumers​

We are also planning to release a new version of on-premises Office for consumers later this year: Office 2024. Office 2024 will also be supported for five years with the traditional “one-time purchase” model. We do not plan to change the price for these products at the time of the release. We will announce more details about new features included in Office 2024 closer to general availability.

.
.
.

FAQ​

Q: Will the next version of Office have a Mac version?

A: Yes, the next version of Office will have both Windows and Mac versions for both commercial and consumer.


Q: Will the next version of Office be supported on Windows 10?

A: Yes, Office LTSC 2024 will be supported on Windows 10 and Windows 10 LTSC devices (with the exception of Arm devices, which will require Windows 11).


Q: Will the next version support both 32- and 64-bit?

A: Yes, the next version of Office will ship both 32-and 64-bit versions.

This is good news. I have a bunch of older clients that will be happy

 

[britechguy]

I have a bunch of older clients that will be happy

I really don't know why, at least not anymore. The pricing premium for the recent standalone versions makes them a much worse financial investment than M365 Personal or Family.

But Microsoft must figure that there are enough people who will buy it as standalone to make it worth creating this type. I would have spent far more had I chosen standalone versions of Office starting with 2016 and updating as new ones came along than M365 would have cost me for the same period, with all available updates to Office plus much more coming with it.

Eventually Microsoft is going to have to put the final nail in the Office coffin.

 

[Blues]

For me with the lose of the pricing through corporate and education systems for standalone I am not spending the money for Office the only app I haven't replaced yet is Outlook but I just haven't invested in that process really.

 

[britechguy]

education systems for standalone

Just as a data point, my recent experience with educational institutions is that they are no longer "handing out" low or no-cost standalone versions of MS-Office (and I had the distinct pleasure of having had free copies handed to me when enrolled in grad school). These days, it's free subscription to M365 "for the duration of your enrollment" and, I'd have to suspect, with a grace period afterward, though I don't know this for sure.

Just last fall I had to get M365 Educational (though I don't think that's official branding, it's what I'm choosing to call what the university gave to its enrolled students) installed on several clients' machines.

 

[Blues]

Yeah but I don't know how much is the institutions choice and how much is MS ending it. I regret my missed chance when had a final chance to get Office 2019 for $20 through a business license agreement.

I have for home personal use switched to Libre Office and so far it has worked great to replace MS Office.

 

[sapphirescales]

The pricing premium for the recent standalone versions makes them a much worse financial investment than M365 Personal or Family.

Absolutely not. Most people have 1-2 computers in their household. 2x copies of Home & Student is $300 for 10 years. Compare that with $1,000 over 10 years for 365 and that's assuming there won't be price increases. Most people would still be okay with Word 97. You don't need new "features" added to a typing program, so always having the latest version with 365 isn't important to most people. OneDrive is a terrible mess, though it's better than not having any cloud backup, assuming the client can keep track of the email address and password used to set it up. Though arguably it's worse than not having cloud backup since Microsoft takes your files and puts them in the cloud ONLY so if the server hosting your files dies or you can't get into your account, your files are gone forever even if your computer still works.

Microsoft didn't move to subscription for the benefit of its customers, it moved to subscription to screw its customers over and enrich itself. 365 only makes sense if you're using the Home & Business on 4+ computers or Professional on 3+ computers. That's not most people. Most people use Word, maybe Excel, and have it on 1-2 computers. Microsoft increased their pricing by 300% to 666% by moving to 365, all under the guise of it "only" being $10/month. They're snakes.

 

[britechguy]

@sapphirescales

Your rants about virtually any of the major players in the computing arena, not limited to Microsoft, have repeatedly come across as wild creations of an untethered mind.

You are wrong, entirely wrong, that there are not benefits to M365 that are wildly beneficial to the average home user. Just having all your standard libraries in the cloud, so that when your computer dies, or you just want a new one, and it all "automagically reappears" when you log in with your Microsoft Account and install M365 is, truly, worth its weight in gold. The sighs of relief from clients who realize, when I tell them, that they've lost nothing if they've been using M365 and OneDrive when some nasty "crash and burn" has happened can practically be heard several states away.

I did not subscribe to M365 in the early days, but now that I have, and have actually LIVED with it and its advantages, I would never for a second consider going back. $99/year for 6 seats, with each seat being allowed to install on 5 separate devices (including mobile), and each device having full access to the 1TB storage on OneDrive is the biggest bargain out there right now. No one else comes close to touching it in the residential market. Even M365 Personal, at around $70 year, is a good deal, but not as wildly spectacular as M365 Family.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Absolutely not. Most people have 1-2 computers in their household. 2x copies of Home & Student is $300 for 10 years. Compare that with $1,000 over 10 years for 365 and that's assuming there won't be price increases. Most people would still be okay with Word 97. You don't need new "features" added to a typing program, so always having the latest version with 365 isn't important to most people. OneDrive is a terrible mess, though it's better than not having any cloud backup, assuming the client can keep track of the email address and password used to set it up. Though arguably it's worse than not having cloud backup since Microsoft takes your files and puts them in the cloud ONLY so if the server hosting your files dies or you can't get into your account, your files are gone forever even if your computer still works.

Microsoft didn't move to subscription for the benefit of its customers, it moved to subscription to screw its customers over and enrich itself. 365 only makes sense if you're using the Home & Business on 4+ computers or Professional on 3+ computers. That's not most people. Most people use Word, maybe Excel, and have it on 1-2 computers. Microsoft increased their pricing by 300% to 666% by moving to 365, all under the guise of it "only" being $10/month. They're snakes.

You're comparing a wheel....to a car.
First...Home and Student is simply a license for Office Apps.
365 is much more than just office apps, you also get online services.

You keep saying OneDrive is a "terrible mess". In about 5 minutes I'll be done laughing and rolling out loud on the floor...because it's quite a great service. It may have been buggy 10-12 years ago when it first came out but it's matured big time, and really skyrocketed in reliability and performance when it went full 64 bit a few years ago. I support pretty huge numbers of computers across many businesses...that use it. And do a lot of collaboration with other MSPs that are learning to automate 365 support...and they see and show the same success with OneDrive that I do.

Also, if you want to compare the most basic of Office apps 365 subscription, compare M365 Personal...against the old Home & Student. Can install M365 Personal across 5 computers....and it's just $69/year. Or $690 over 10 years.

Sticking with "old, outdated, no longer updated" office versions is ...quite bluntly....ignorant and incredibly poor advice. Kinda shocking to hear that someone that claims to be an IT person would say it.
The amount of vulnerabilities out there, that are actively/currently exploited...it staggering.
First hit on Google.. https://www.kaspersky.com/about/pre...a-an-old-microsoft-office-vulnerability-in-q2

 

[fincoder]

Absolutely not. Most people have 1-2 computers in their household. 2x copies of Home & Student is $300 for 10 years.

The only problem with that argument is that outright purchased Office is only supported for 5 years from original release. Buying Office 2021 now would be a mistake, it's only supported until October 2026!

Soon after the release of a new version, Office Home & Student might be worthwhile for people: with 1 computer, that don't want Outlook or Publisher, and that don't want to use OneDrive storage > 5GB. Especially if they don't care too much about running a supported Office suite.

 

[sapphirescales]

Sticking with "old, outdated, no longer updated" office versions is ...quite bluntly....ignorant and incredibly poor advice.

I'm not literally suggesting that people still use Word 97. I'm just saying from a feature perspective, most people would be fine still using Word 97, so 365's "perk" of always having the most recent version of Word is pointless for most people. Standalone copies of Office get security updates for 5 years. It used to be 10 years but that was too good of a deal so Microsoft shortened it to 5 years.

The only problem with that argument is that outright purchased Office is only supported for 5 years from original release.

Yeah, I forgot about that. It was 10 years for so long that I can't help thinking it's still 10 years. At 5 years you have to cut my numbers in half. Still, 365 is 150% to 333% more expensive than a standalone version assuming you don't buy it right before the next version comes out like an idiot.

Can install M365 Personal across 5 computers....and it's just $69/year. Or $690 over 10 years.

Didn't personal used to only include installing it on 1 computer? If you can really do 5 computers for $69/year then that brings it almost on-par with a perpetual license for 2+ computers. It's still a ripoff if you only need to install it on one computer though.

really skyrocketed in reliability and performance when it went full 64 bit a few years ago.

As far as I know OneDrive is still limited to a ridiculously tiny 1TB like it's still 2012 or something. I know you can get more but you have to buy like 5 licenses and even then you're limited to only 5TB. You can get more but you have to contact Microsoft or some BS. This is completely unacceptable in 2024. Heck, it was completely unacceptable in 2015.

The main problem I have with it though is that it doesn't keep the files on your computer. If you just use it to sync it's fine but as soon as you turn on "backup" it decides to arbitrarily delete files from your computer and keep them in the cloud only. This means that if you forget the password or Microsoft's server dies and they lose your data, it's gone forever. Even if your computer is still working, you can't back up the data from your computer because the data isn't actually on your computer. This is ridiculous. I'm interested in Microsoft's new "Backup" app for Windows 11. If they fix this problem and start including unlimited storage, I'll happily use it. As it is I'm much happier with Backblaze even though it's $120/year (I pay monthly).

The sighs of relief from clients who realize, when I tell them, that they've lost nothing if they've been using M365 and OneDrive when some nasty "crash and burn" has happened can practically be heard several states away.

I have the exact opposite experience. 99% of the time my clients can't remember their Microsoft account email address, let alone their password. Instead I have to tell them that some of their stuff is gone because they can't get back into their account and Microsoft decided to arbitrarily delete files from their computer to keep in the cloud, and since they can't access their account, their data is gone forever. I try to do the account recovery with them but they either used Microsoft Authenticator and have since gotten a new phone so they can't log in, or they no longer have the same phone number, or they used a fricking home phone for SMS verification (how Microsoft allows this to begin with is beyond me), they don't have access to their recovery email address anymore, and a whole host of other problems. The point is, they can't access their Microsoft account any longer so they lose their stuff, even though the drive in their computer still works! If they hadn't had OneDrive then I could have just recovered the data from their drive, but no.

And I know you're going to go on a rant about how it's not our fault if clients can't remember their password or can't get access to their accounts and you're right, but Microsoft should NOT be deleting stuff from their computer so you can't even recover the data. At the very least they should make it VERY obvious what files are "cloud only" and which files are stored on the computer. All they have to do is have a little folder in OneDrive for cloud only files but they don't.

 

[phaZed]

I think it's my turn for the

 

[britechguy]

The main problem I have with it though is that it doesn't keep the files on your computer.

Which is another assertion with no basis in fact. You can select one of two "storage states" with a third that is an intermediate between the two.

For any files and folders, you can choose to store locally, always (with the same files also constantly backed up in the cloud), or on the cloud only, streamed down to your computer(s) on demand. If you have "cloud only" and the file streams down, there is an intermediate state where the file is both stored locally and in the cloud until you have not touched it locally for something like 30 days. See: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...ons-mean-11143026-8000-44f8-aaa9-67c985aa49b3 , specifically the three icons starting at "Blue Cloud Icon."

Your false beliefs about situations that are either long in the past, or never even were, are appalling for someone in this business. You really, really need to get out more.

 

[britechguy]

99% of the time my clients can't remember their Microsoft account email address, let alone their password. Instead I have to tell them that some of their stuff is gone because they can't get back into their account and Microsoft decided to arbitrarily delete files from their computer to keep in the cloud, and since they can't access their account, their data is gone forever.

This is the biggest load of BS I've read in a very long time. You have very, very stupid clients if they can't keep track of their Microsoft Account credentials in the age of Windows 10 and Windows 11. My senior citizen clients even manage this, though passwords can be an issue. Microsoft makes it reasonably easy to regain access to a Microsoft Account, and I've helped people do so.

Your assertions about how OneDrive handles storage are, plain and simply, wrong. The end user has total control over whether files are maintained locally, in addition to the cloud, or just in the cloud and streamed on demand.

Anyone, and I mean anyone, using any cloud-based storage has to be brain dead if they don't realize that an account (with login credentials) is part and parcel of that setup. You can't use cloud storage, period, without an account and password to do so.

I have lots of clients who pull the, "I don't have a password," for email accounts because they forget, entirely, that their email client is holding this information for them. All of us here experience this, and also disabuse our clients of the foolish notion, "I don't have a password. I never had a password."

 

[sapphirescales]

there is an intermediate state where the file is both stored locally and in the cloud until you have not touched it locally for something like 30 days

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!

Microsoft: You haven't used this file in 30 days. I'm going to delete it from your computer in order to "save space."

Me. Screw you, Microshaft! I saved the file to my computer and I expect it to be there!

As per this page (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...-windows-0e6860d3-d9f3-4971-b321-7092438fb38e):

Note: Starting with OneDrive build 23.066 Files On-Demand is enabled by default for all users.

NO other cloud service that I'm aware of does this without the user specifically requesting it on a file-by-file or a folder-by-folder basis. Microsoft does this for every file on your computer by default now. Having a file cloud only is just as bad as not having a backup at all. Worse actually because at least if you're storing your files locally without a backup you still have physical possession of them.

 

[Blues]

I am a bit in between the 2 sides here I recognize and agree that what most people see when they by MS Office products/services is just the apps and the feature updates are generally worthless to the average user and like @sapphirescales mentions a MS Office version from 97 would be sufficient for most peoples need from the application stand point. I can understand the arguments for the additional features like OneDrive and cloud support but honestly I have seen far more issues with MS Account based login that I have to say that benefit isn't as great due to the end user complications actually accessing said accounts. This is based on my experience with my users/clients and the problems I have had to support of deal with aftermath of. I tend to push people more toward alternatives like Libre Office unless they have specific reasons to go with MS Office these days as even though standalone MS Office would work the limit on its support and cost really help push Libre Office as a good viable alternative. I have found most can grab onto the changes in the applications fairly easy as majority of functions, formulas, and design are so similar.

 

[britechguy]

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!

Microsoft: You haven't used this file in 30 days. I'm going to delete it from your computer in order to "save space."

Me. Screw you, Microshaft! I saved the file to my computer and I expect it to be there!

As per this page (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...-windows-0e6860d3-d9f3-4971-b321-7092438fb38e):



NO other cloud service that I'm aware of does this without the user specifically requesting it on a file-by-file or a folder-by-folder basis. Microsoft does this for every file on your computer by default now. Having a file cloud only is just as bad as not having a backup at all. Worse actually because at least if you're storing your files locally without a backup you still have physical possession of them.

Again, flagrant ignorance. Most other cloud services do not even keep files "streamed down" for opening locally for anywhere near to 30 days (not that this much matters to most people, as the files sync back anyway).

I suggest you try using Google Drive for Windows without an internet connection and see how many files you can get to. Answer, none (at least with default settings). You can drill down through the directory structure, but if you try to open a Google Drive file with no internet connection, it simply errors out.

Microsoft is not doing anything particularly differently than most cloud storage providers do. And on top of it they have an overlay set that should make clear to any end user who took two minutes to learn about the product they chose to use what states those files are in and how they can change that state to suit their own wants/needs. If you, any you, choose to use a product it is incumbent upon you to familiarize yourself with its basic workings and its default settings. The basic workings of cloud-based storage are widely shared, contrary to your assertion.

You demonstrate, again and again, abject ignorance of how the technologies that have been out there and in common use for years actually work. It's shameful, really, for someone who presents themselves as having expertise in IT.

 

[fincoder]

For any files and folders, you can choose to store locally, always

And there's a simple setting to make ALL onedrive files available offline (stored locally).

 

[ThatPlace928]

I simply uninstall OneDrive, then I don't have to deal with it. If someone buys a laptop from me and wants to use it, I can reinstall. No muss, no fuss.

 

[britechguy]

And there's a simple setting to make ALL onedrive files available offline (stored locally).
View attachment 16038

And it's built into Windows, via Storage Sense. Easy peasy. OneDrive is just dead simple, and the default settings work just fine for anyone with two firing neurons who knows that to use any service, you have an account.

I have all my music available offline as well as select other folders, and I made that choice the day I began using OneDrive, as I bothered to learn the basics, and I do mean basics, before going to M365.

If I had an email user say to me, "I don't have an email account!," I'd ROTFLMAO. I'd do the same for anyone using a cloud storage service who said the same about the account that absolutely has to exist before you can use same. And in the case of OneDrive as part of M365 Personal or Family, you can't obtain M365 without a Microsoft Account (and most people would be using it to log in to Windows, too).