Very irritating situation ... am I wrong or off base here?

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thecomputerguy

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Background:

I picked up a small interior design company (5-7 users), about a year ago who complained that their old IT guys weren't giving them the attention they wanted. They are a small group of high maintenance (from an IT standpoint) women.

Since almost they beginning I have had little issues with them.

The Issues:

Issues like ... the first computer they bought from me. I sent an estimate they approved it, they later asked for a monitor for it, I told them I could get them one. After I installed the they asked me why they were billed for the monitor, it wasn't on the estimate. I said, "Because it wasn't included... do you see a monitor on the estimate? you were quoted for a desktop computer, I gave you the specs, there is no mention of the monitor that you asked for at a later date." they said I should have been more clear and it was my fault. Long story short, that computer cost me money.

I was VERY CLEAR on the next estimate for the next computer. Of course they couldn't understand why it was so much more than the first one, so I had to remind them how the first one went down.

Then issues like doing small remote jobs, and then complaining about bills. Or having to overly justify why they were billed for it.

Issues like asking for my receipts from my suppliers so they could see my pricing.

The jaw-dropper:

They decided that they are going to move their office to a more commercial space. So they ask for an estimate to buy and install 2 new computers, data transfers, install all the programs they use on the two new ones, move 6 computers, install two new printers, redo some email configuration, redo the network at the new location, make sure the voip system works, and some other little stuff like, cabling and cleaning up a few of the older computers. I send them a quote for 8-10 hours and another 2 hours of (optional) offsite work for follow-up, which in my experience will probably be necessary.

Over the last few weeks I have been in communication with them nearly everyday. Making sure the general contractor gets the cabling right, making sure he puts in enough jacks, making sure he finishes the cable at a patch panel in the correct room, making sure the jacks are where they need to be, researching internet providers and pricing for them. Helping them pick out a new phone system, and a phone company to migrate to, and generally just answering general questions about how everything is going to play out. I've basically been playing their little IT department.

I get an email from one of them telling me the owner is going to call me because the scope of the operation has changed. I get a call from her and she says, "So we decided what we are going to do is we are going to buy the computers from you, but I have a friend whose son does computer work like you, and hes going to do the installation for us because he's giving us a much better price."

My jaw drops... I'm almost 3 hours into helping these people already assuming I was doing the job, I mean I've been the IT guy for the last year and a half.

She continues. "So what we want to do is have you drop the computers off on the 6th (they are 30 minutes away), our other guy is going to do the whole install on the 7th, if he has any issues he'll call you but if we need you we will have you come back on the 8th to finish/fix whatever he didn't/couldn't do."

So I have some major issues here:

1.) Someone else installing computers I back for 3 years. Ultimately I am responsible for these products, and I am not the one installing them.

2.) I don't make much off the computers, I make most of my money on install, and now I'm married to these computers for 3 years without actually profiting a whole lot off them.

3.) I've already given away plenty of time to make sure their move went smooth that I assumed I would be compensated for when I did the job

4.) I can already tell the day he installs the computers they are going to constantly be all over me for information because he doesn't know what I know.

5.) Now instead of just doing the job and being done with it they want to tie me up for 3 days, one to deliver and probably do some minor setup, another to help the other guy understand what I've done, and another to fix what the other guy can't, most of which I won't get paid for. I don't think they understand I don't just sit around all day begging for calls to come in, I'm booked daily from 9am until about 6pm.

6.) I feel disrespected for being so willing to help these people out and just lose out because some kid is doing it "for a better price."

Any insight?
 
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I had a client like this and in the end we told them to find another IT provider and said we were unable to assist them anymore.

Similar to your client- they complained about every job we did, how much time they think it should have taken (not knowing all the planning, remote work involved)
They wanted to pay Break/Fix rates but get all their work done like they were a maintenance contract client and demanded things be dont straight away. Tried to get them on as a maintenance contract but they didn't want to pay.

People like this will never be happy and always complain about every little thing.

One thing i have learnt is you don't have to say yes to every client that asks you to jump. You can say no if its not worth your time and especially if they have signs of being a difficult client.
Its best to go you separate ways because you will spend a very long time trying to keep them happy and its going to affect your back pocket not theirs. All the time you spend making them happy is time you could be spending on a new client or other paying clients.

Don't be affraid to say no to clients
 
What allstar said. I would seriously consider cutting them loose if you have other prospects. These people will have you running pillar to post on your own dime.
 
What they said.

Now Googling strange foreign phrase, "running pillars to post."

Update, also go ogling why my android doesn't know the verb "googling" .
 
It is okay to fire a client and this company should of been fired long before this. They are using you as a consultant and you are not billing them for your time. Do you like working for free? Try getting three hours from your doctor for free. They were able to get you to give them a monitor for free right at the start and you have been giving them free time ever since. At least that's how I read your post.

Fire them. Plan and simple. Tell them why in a very professional way, but do not let them talk you into keeping them on.
 
Invoice them for three hours consultancy work to cover your time so far plus an hour for delivery of the computers. Document absolutely everything you've done so far, phone calls, site visits, etc., as the odds are they will quibble. If this comes to more than the three hours - and it probably will - increase the invoice accordingly.
Advise them that as another company is installing the PCs and carrying out the set up your involvement ends with the delivery of the PCs.
 
I would have nipped this in the bud right away. How? Simple. I would NEVER have lost money on a desktop computer because the client assumed that it would include a monitor. Most desktops you buy in the store don't come with a monitor and if they do, they're grossly overpriced. I have a large enough markup on hardware that my prices would be too high to attract this type of cheapo client anyway. That aside, I would have told them to either buy a monitor or enjoy working on a computer with no visual output because that's their option. They would be ****** and I would have lost them as a client. Good riddance. Then I wouldn't be stuck in the position you're in.

As for another mistake you made, working without getting paid FIRST. That is a BIG no-no. Bill them for the hours needed and don't put in 1 second until they pay for it. I don't understand why people find this so hard to understand. If they want service, they need to pay first. I only take cash or credit card. If they want to write a check, then I need to make sure it clears before I start work. Most businesses use some local bank so it's easy to just go in and make sure they have enough money in the account to cover it and that you get your money.

Honestly, asking to see your wholesale pricing? That's totally unacceptable. I had this happen to me on several occasions. When this happens, I ask them if they demand to see the wholesale prices of Walmart before they buy anything and that usually makes them understand how awkward and improper it is to ask something like that. If they still insist, I say "Look, these are my prices. You can either pay it or go somewhere else. I don't have time to justify what I charge. It's either worth it to you or not. Please decide now."

I don't have time for BS like this. You can usually tell a cheap a$$ client way before you get this deep into a relationship. At the first sign of trouble, I tell them to clean up their act or find someone else.

If I were in your situation right now, I'd sit down and tell them like it is. If they're understanding, great. If not, bill them for the 3 hours you think you deserve and tell them you won't service them anymore. You probably won't get the 3 hours pay, but chalk it up to a learning experience and get the heck away from this client. You don't want them.
 
Issues like asking for my receipts from my suppliers so they could see my pricing.
You mean this isn't the jaw dropper?? I lost count of the red flags at this point.

She continues. "So what we want to do is have you drop the computers off on the 6th (they are 30 minutes away), our other guy is going to do the whole install on the 7th, if he has any issues he'll call you but if we need you we will have you come back on the 8th to finish/fix whatever he didn't/couldn't do."
lessee.... that's $260 per hour travelling time, discount rates of $280 per hour on call for two days, $320 per hour to repair installation by unqualified technician, computer warranties voided due to installation by unauthorised technician...... etc

Edit: You could make a real killing here!!! :D
 
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I think everyone has already summed up what you should do pretty well. I just wanted to say reading that got me annoyed and I'm not even dealing with them so I feel sorry for you. We ditched a few clients a while back and it was the best thing we ever did.
 
You're no in CT are you? One of our guys had a small interior decorating firm as a client for a short time, got tired of them...same reasons you are. We didn't have them for long, I think they hop from IT guy to IT guy. Think all our guy did is get them off of sbcglobal e-mail and onto O365....for almost 1 year. Sounds like your peeps if your in CT..lol...yeah, 5 or 6 women..well....one of them is "technically" a male..but you wouldn't know it based on the sound of her..I mean..his voice, on the phone.

Re: the monitor...I've learned to be very clear on this when upgrading/replacing workstations. Many clients think a new desktop also means a new, larger monitor. People see these 20" screens these days and their current 17" LCDs are no longer good enough for them.

Re: having some pizza tech to the easy work and only you for the higher end complicated stuff...yeah I run short on that patience too, Send a bill for the phone calls/e-mails that you have to answer....or have them move over ALL their support to the pizza tech. They'll soon realize "you get what you pay for " and the cheap guy can't do it all because it's "above his paygrade".
 
The moment they asked to see your vendors bills is the second the relationship should have ended. I think the phrase I would have use would have began with F-ck off and then I would have gotten ugly. The only mistake you made, and to be honest it wouldn't have helped with this client was not sending a revised estimate when they complained about the lack of a monitor. If wasn't clear but I hope to god you didn't give them a free monitor because of the way the complained about it. That one transaction would have been my only dealing with that bunch.
 
And if they didn't like the fact of no monitor and was unwilling to pay for one you should have packed the computer back up and left. Returned the unit to your supplier or sold it on ebay.

Cheap clients are bad clients.
 
Background:

I picked up a small interior design company (5-7 users), about a year ago who complained that their old IT guys weren't giving them the attention they wanted. They are a small group of high maintenance (from an IT standpoint) women.

Since almost they beginning I have had little issues with them.

The Issues:

Issues like ... the first computer they bought from me. I sent an estimate they approved it, they later asked for a monitor for it, I told them I could get them one. After I installed the they asked me why they were billed for the monitor, it wasn't on the estimate. I said, "Because it wasn't included... do you see a monitor on the estimate? you were quoted for a desktop computer, I gave you the specs, there is no mention of the monitor that you asked for at a later date." they said I should have been more clear and it was my fault. Long story short, that computer cost me money.

I was VERY CLEAR on the next estimate for the next computer. Of course they couldn't understand why it was so much more than the first one, so I had to remind them how the first one went down.

Then issues like doing small remote jobs, and then complaining about bills. Or having to overly justify why they were billed for it.

Issues like asking for my receipts from my suppliers so they could see my pricing.

The jaw-dropper:

They decided that they are going to move their office to a more commercial space. So they ask for an estimate to buy and install 2 new computers, data transfers, install all the programs they use on the two new ones, move 6 computers, install two new printers, redo some email configuration, redo the network at the new location, make sure the voip system works, and some other little stuff like, cabling and cleaning up a few of the older computers. I send them a quote for 8-10 hours and another 2 hours of (optional) offsite work for follow-up, which in my experience will probably be necessary.

Over the last few weeks I have been in communication with them nearly everyday. Making sure the general contractor gets the cabling right, making sure he puts in enough jacks, making sure he finishes the cable at a patch panel in the correct room, making sure the jacks are where they need to be, researching internet providers and pricing for them. Helping them pick out a new phone system, and a phone company to migrate to, and generally just answering general questions about how everything is going to play out. I've basically been playing their little IT department.

I get an email from one of them telling me the owner is going to call me because the scope of the operation has changed. I get a call from her and she says, "So we decided what we are going to do is we are going to buy the computers from you, but I have a friend whose son does computer work like you, and hes going to do the installation for us because he's giving us a much better price."

My jaw drops... I'm almost 3 hours into helping these people already assuming I was doing the job, I mean I've been the IT guy for the last year and a half.

She continues. "So what we want to do is have you drop the computers off on the 6th (they are 30 minutes away), our other guy is going to do the whole install on the 7th, if he has any issues he'll call you but if we need you we will have you come back on the 8th to finish/fix whatever he didn't/couldn't do."

So I have some major issues here:

1.) Someone else installing computers I back for 3 years. Ultimately I am responsible for these products, and I am not the one installing them.

2.) I don't make much off the computers, I make most of my money on install, and now I'm married to these computers for 3 years without actually profiting a whole lot off them.

3.) I've already given away plenty of time to make sure their move went smooth that I assumed I would be compensated for when I did the job

4.) I can already tell the day he installs the computers they are going to constantly be all over me for information because he doesn't know what I know.

5.) Now instead of just doing the job and being done with it they want to tie me up for 3 days, one to deliver and probably do some minor setup, another to help the other guy understand what I've done, and another to fix what the other guy can't, most of which I won't get paid for. I don't think they understand I don't just sit around all day begging for calls to come in, I'm booked daily from 9am until about 6pm.

6.) I feel disrespected for being so willing to help these people out and just lose out because some kid is doing it "for a better price."

Any insight?


Don't do it.........

Bill for what you have in it. Hope you have covered your a$$.

Run Forest, run!

You don't need (want) this customer. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

Just my opinion!

Harold
 
I agree with everyone else on this one. Bill them for the hours spent to date and require payment at the time of invoice. After the payment is in hand politely but firmly tell them that you will not be servicing them any longer and they will need to find a new provider.
 
Fire these suckers and call it a day.

2 things that stuck out to me. The first one was them wanting to know your wholesale rates, when I read that first thing I thought was "cheap ass". The next one was about them hiring another person to come in and install everything. Aren't they spending more money by paying him and then technically paying you to come back and fix everything he has done? Sounds like 2 pay checks for them to dish out. They are your computers that you are supplying to them and you are standing behind the 3 year warranty, right there I would have said No way someone else does it.

Obviously white flags came from the start. Pat yourself on the back, you held out as long as you could. They need to go now.
 
I stopped reading this thread because the OP was making me angry, and I felt it was taking too long to get down to the text box (my fingers are shaking!)

I would have dropped this customer the day they asked to see my supplier receipts. I don't ask my plumber or mechanic how much a part costs. The markup is part of running a business.

Drop this customer, and next time you quote an 8 hour job don't start any work without a 4 hour deposit IMO
 
Yikes, this sounds like a disaster!

I think you put yourself in a bad spot as soon as you did "the nice thing" and ate the cost of the original monitor. It sets a bad precedent that you're willing to bend over backwards for them, even to your own detriment. When I quote a new computer, I always put an "options" section at the bottom, and usually list a 20" monitor as well as copies of microsoft office. (So many people think Office is part of windows, and are shocked when I tell them its an additional piece of software that can be anywhere from $100-$500 depending on which programs they need).

If this was me, as soon as they started calling me for help on the move (dealing with contractors and such) I would have put the brakes on and let them know that this falls under consulting/project planning, which is billable at $XXX per hour. (NEVER give away your time for free, especially on this scale!) Or, get them signed to a service contract, which SPECIFICALLY states what you do and do not cover. Anything else (projects like this for example) are billed separately.

As far as the new computers go, I'd let them know that they can have whoever they want install them, however you can't support the install. If he gets stuck and calls you, it will be dealt with at $XXX per hour. And it will be at best effort, since you have booked other clients during this time. (Priority service should only go to clients you have under a contract, or at a hefty hourly rate) When you speak to them again, ask if the friends son will be available 9-5 mon-fri (or whatever their business hours are) to provide on going support. When they inevitable tell you that he won't be (thats why they want you) Let them know you can't support what another tech does, and don't want to get into the "finger pointing game". If they don't trust your technical expertise and aren't willing to pay your rates, they should just have the friends son take over all IT for the company entirely.

To me, it sounds like this isn't the type of client you want. When a company relies on IT, yet doesn't want to spend any money on it, its a problem. If you make concession after concession, they will continue to abuse it (I know from experience). You need to put your foot down as a professional. I can understand if your slow and need the work/money. But even then, these things tend to snowball quicker than you'd expect. If it was me, I'd probably send a bill for the time you spent planning out this project anyway. Your time is valuable, and they need to know what that value is.
 
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