Untangle charging for WireGuard VPN.

[gpg]

I know everyone needs to make money and the cost of good programmers is expensive but now Untangle has decided to charge for open source apps like WireGuard VPN. I was very excited to start using WG for VPN access as it's much faster than OpenVPN. Now I have to somehow explain to the boss that it's going to cost much more for VPN access. I will have to call our Untangle rep and see what it will cost. Just venting as one of the main reasons for me choosing Untangle was the cost factor.

gpg

 

[britechguy]

Serious request for clarification: How can any private entity charge for open-source software? Under open-source licensing that would generally be a violation of terms of use/redistribution.

It may just be a matter of phrasing here, but I'm trying to understand exactly what you mean.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Technically Untangle isn't selling Wireguard, they're selling a GUI they built that's cloud accessible that happens to configure Wireguard AND support for it.

There's a massive difference.

But yes, there is a ton of online whining that Untangle isn't giving away all that work. The only way to get it is via a Complete sub too, which if you already have you just GET this module. (Unless you're using the residential HomePro sub in a business setting, in which case BAD BAD Panda!)

So you aren't paying as it is... and expecting new toys? How does that work?

Also, the GPL says nothing about selling software, and no this isn't any sort of license violation even if they were to do so. Free doesn't mean free forever, in the GPLs case it just means code you write for the project must also be released as such. And Untangle's is, on their github. Source is right here: https://github.com/untangle/ngfw_src/tree/master/wireguard-vpn

So you're free to compile and sideload the module yourself if you wish.

To be clear, I'm annoyed they didn't release this module to the free portion of their platform too. I'm also annoyed they continue to sell the IPSec module which is ALSO built on "free" VPN projects. The justification is the support costs, because Untangle provides "free" support for the "free" installs, they incurr cost based on those tickets.

My solution would be to sell support tickets for people that don't have complete subs, stop all free support for them, and leave the modules free... but that's me. In the meantime, how dare Untangle monetize their product shame on them!

 

[gpg]

It may just be a matter of phrasing here, but I'm trying to understand exactly what you mean.

I mean WG VPN is open source software and now baked into the Linux kernel. Untangle has WG included in their apps option but now requires a Complete subscription costing way more money than before. I understand that they need to pay the programmers to write the nice GUI but at least offer a la carte to purchase needed apps.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Complete did not increase in price vs last year... Heck it hasn't changed in five years.

So what are you comparing it to? An unlicensed Untangle server you've been using for free? The value in that platform hasn't changed either.

 

[gpg]

how dare Untangle monetize their product shame on them!

You are correct, they have every right to monetize their product and work that they do. I have no argument with that. My point is they offer OpenVPN for free and other apps for free. This just feels like a bait and switch ploy. So I will just stay with OpenVPN. If I were to go with the complete package I am looking at over 10K/year. Not going to happen. I would switch to WG if it was offered a la carte. If Untangle decides to charge for OpenVPN and their other free apps then I will go with another UTM. OPNsense is a contender.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Yes, and OpenVPN support tickets the last I heard were almost HALF of their total support load. OpenVPN was free, then they bolted in IPSec and made it a premium module siting support costs. Expecting them to do differently for Wireguard is silly.

I'm also rather curious as to how large your network is where you think complete is going to cost you $10g a year... Since that's the 1000 device sub. I support a few schools that big, but no one commercially uses the platform at that scale that I'm aware of. Still, if you try to compare Checkpoint, Palo Alto, or Cisco's offerings in that space you're in the same money pit... so I don't understand the problem here.

OPNSense isn't a UTM at all... but it does tick several functional boxes. It has certainly matured a fair bit, and does offer a fair alternative. But, you buy it with no support, and reports that are to be frank... crap.

And just so you know, no... Untangle will not be offering Wireguard a la carte... or at least if they will it doesn't appear to be in the plan. As of Nov 20th, the only two modules that will be a la carte are Web Filter and IPSec, all other modules will be unavailable for purchase outside of complete.

But Untangle has an employee on the forums dropping hints that makes me think something might be changing... who knows. It's been a strange year.

*Edit* No wait you have free Untangles all over the place doing OpenVPN things and you wanted to update them all to Wiregard didn't you? I feel your pain... I'm right there with you.

To that end, I've recently discovered that Untangle runs LXC, so I'm currently researching putting a custom container on Untangle that could operate PiHole, or a dedicated Wireguard instance to get around this precise problem.

 

[phaZed]

It's a garbage, but not illegal decision by Untangle, IMO. The market will decide... and Untangle may or may not have to adjust their strategy here based on that.

GFI, then Solarwinds, now LogicNow - their prices kept going up and nickel and diming me - I had over 400 clients on it at one point, now I have 6 left and can't wait to transition them out... how's that nickel and diming going over there at LogicNow? Cause you just lost over $1K/mo. on the hopes you could inflate my costs by hundreds every year (seemingly) by adding features I don't want and didn't ask for.

Plenty of UTM firewalls out there.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Yeah... like Sophos? SQL injection vuln in their local admin login prompt in 2020...

Untangle is many things, but it's not priced poorly for what it does. Though it IS expensive for MSP ops, Meraki is cheaper in some ways.

The solution doesn't fit all molds, which is why I play with OPNSense and Sensei. It's no where near as good, but it might just be "good enough", and the price is right at the bottom... but then scales to stupid just like Untangle does.

 

[phaZed]

I've been using pfSense for years and for the last year or so I've been looking at OPNsense.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@phaZed I too was a long time user of pfSense... until they threatened to sue me. No joke... got a cease and desist order from simply mentioning my hardware supports their software.

OPNSense exists precisely because the people behing pfSense are bigger pricks than Oracle. It's basically the same platform, heck you can almost restore a pfSense backup on OPNSense.

The only real problem with both of them... they're BSD based. I love me some BSD, but it's just not a supported platform. Intel supports Linux directly, so the Debian based Untangle is vastly easier to get new hardware to work with... But if Untangle doesn't get their collective heads out from their posteriors... even I may have to jump ship. OPNSense with Sensei is the closest thing I have to a direct replacement.

 

[Porthos]

Technically Untangle isn't selling Wireguard, they're selling a GUI they built that's cloud accessible that happens to configure Wireguard AND support for it.

There's a massive difference.

Exactly. Even Malwarebytes VPN uses WireGuard.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Since we're an MSP, supporting business clients, we sell the complete package to our clients.
We don't go looking for "free" products to install and support at our clients.
If it wasn't Untangle....it would be something else like Sophos UTM....or Sonicwall (yuck)...or Fortinet, or whatever. None of those are free. Don't want free stuff.

Free/open source *nix distros were a big hobby of mine many years ago (decades ago). Back before I discovered Untangle (it just hit version 5 back then), I played with tons of *nix firewall distros, IPCop, m0n0wall, Smoothwall, Copfire (a quasi UTM add on for IPCop), PFSense (back with its very first version), ClearOS, etc etc and many more. I used to download/install a new one every month or two at home to play with them.

But for business use, went with Untangle back around version 5 and always focused on the paid verisons. To get support, and to get all the bells and whistles. We did a bit of PFSense about 15 or so years ago for some clients with heavy site to site needs...but it wasn't a lot. We're in the business to make money. Untangles subscriptions are flexible (annual or monthly)..and profitable (high margins)....so it's nice recurring revenue to fit into MSP bundles.