SBS 2011 & 3TB backup drives

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drjones

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Hi guys.

Went to install a 3TB, USB 3.0 Seagate backup at a clients SBS 2011 box & could not get it to work; kept getting a pop-up saying that "backup failed due to device I/O error."

So a little google-fu uncovers that it may be an issue with the sector size; apparently these huge drives have 4096k sector sizes and SBS 2011/Server 2008 doesn't play with that.

Is there any workaround/fix, or just get a smaller drive?

I had the same issue with the portable (2.5") 2TB backup they want to carry offsite, but was able to remedy it (I think; didn't want to sit for hours for backup to complete) by formatting it with 512k sectors. I'll know tomorrow if backup was successful.

I did read on TechNet that in some cases, with certain drives, even if the backup says it's successful, data restores can fail... ugh, scary.....

Thoughts?
 
Home users: external drives, thumb drives etc... have a place, and only then if they are redundant, but when "server" is mentioned, personally I would never use such a setup. Tape backup is best.

That being said, when you say "it doesn't work," can you plug the drive in and do any type of file copy, OR does the fail come from using "backup" software?

fooTunny
 
Tape Backups are extinct!
SBS2011 doesn't even support tape drives...Microsoft retired support for them.

It's about image based backups now, and newer versions of SBS like to backup in image format...VHD files. Which currently do not support large sector size of certain external removable disks...but support for it should be out eventually.

Most WD drives work fine..they have an XP emulate mode to show 512 byte sector size.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2510009

You can wrestle with the Seagate...try removing the disk, slave it to an XP rig, play with blowing away partitions on it and creating new partition tables ' n stuff..put it back together, see if the server will see it.

Or swap it out and get a WD drive...WD has tools to format in old 512 XP emulate style.

Or get 3rd party current backup technology software like StorageCraft.
 
Well no need to be ugly, but now that you posted out of line, perhaps tape backups are extinct in your world, but in ours, LTO automated library units are still the choice for protecting critical systems, do notice thet I said "me personally" so perhaps consider that before you reply to anyone so abrubtly as this again.

Again me personally, I would never use disks (unless as I stated, redundancy is used) for enterprise solutions.

Still waiting on your reply drjones on if you can simply place the unit and use windows to move around data, OR does it fail on soem backup application you are using.

fooTunny
 
fooTunny, you may have taken YeOldeStonecat's response a too personally. I felt he replied with good intentions and provided useful and accurate information given the OP's context.
 
Too be fair, maybe I did, and I offer my apologies, just hate knowing that a technology as strong as tape backup would ever be considered "dead" I have dozens of sites (never rely on MS to control anything) using SAS, SCSI etc... along with high end archive software to run and protect their critical data.

Not bad mouthing drive backups, I just keep them at the home level AND if I were ever to sled them out on a server, again I would use some form or redundancy as RAID levels etc... to ensure loss of data would be minimal. New here and do not wish to get off on a "what a jerk that guy is" relationship :)

Look forward to a long and fruitful sharing of the knowledge.

fooTunny
 
LOL if you think me saying "tape backups are extinct" is some kind of personal, ugly attack, and out of line...wow...I dunno what to say.

It's a comment about a device...an inanimate object, not a person. I don't see what can personal about that.

The industry moved away from old school tape backup methods as a trend quite a few years ago.

Backup has been replaced with Disaster recovery, specifically in many industries that demand "uptime", has taken over, it's about image based backups that can be rather immediately restored to new/different hardware.

Amount of data has grown, tapes are slow, take a long time, takes a long time to restore data, requiring someone onsite to swap tapes, inventory, etc. Now think about when a server crashes. Restore time. Order new hardware...rush it onsite, install the base OS....now cross your fingers and play the restore game. Hope the tapes are good. And god forbid if the client had a differential/incremental backup system instead of a full backup each night...holy cow...sweat it out and hope every single tape is good so the chain isn't broken. So you're restoring tapes...how many days later after the server crash? Amount of hours put into the disaster recovery so far?

Newer backup methods for server....industry has moved to image based backups. Demands from boards, from audits, from the industry, HIPAA, etc...it's all about speed of recovery, getting services back up online as fast as possible.

Image based backups, stored locally, synched offsite. Safe, secure, zero physical interaction required with the server.

Disaster strikes....server blows up, image can be restored to different hardware quickly and easily. On better systems....the backups are kept on an X86/X64 based NAS unit that can boot up the virtual image based backups and run them as a "stand in" server until the new server hardware arrives. This gives you less than 30 minutes downtime!

Restoring data...done incredibly easily and quickly via web access. Just a few weeks ago I was out on an island doing work at one client...putting up a wireless network at a summer day camp. A client on mainland, an accounting firm, called..and needed data from one of their accounting programs restored from a couple of days ago..she wasn't sure when she did something that sent the database for this one client incorrect. I remoted in and restored from one morning...in about 15 minutes..it needed to be restored further back she said...so I restored from the afternoon day before that..still wasn't good, went back to that morning..all good. All done in less than 20 minutes. Without being able to go onsite...all done remotely, nice 'n easy.

It benefits us techs in the IT world too. Brutally fast, reliable, easy restoration. Cuz we know (esp those of us that have been in the field long enough to tell tons of war stories).....when a server tanks, when something bad happens...and you're hunkered over a clients server(s)...those clients are hanging over your shoulders asking why, when will it be ready, I need it NOW, hurry please, etc etc. In the old days..with pokey tape backsup, I hated those moments. These days...I don't even break a sweat, because I know it will be done quickly...and surprise them with "Hey..it's all back, go ahead and log back in!"
 
Honestly anyone that is so old school to recommend tape drives I would have to question their ability. Tape is too unreliable and slow to be used in TODAY's server environment. In 2002 sure but in 2012 you need image backups.

My clients all have drive backups. Drive units are swapped out daily and one taken offsite. Just like you'd do with tapes.

One of my clients backs up to a NAS unit and that is then backed up to an external drive taken off site. There is no way tapes could handle any of this and be affordable or fast.
 
Check out the WD Nas units, running a full server OS online backup available full image based with 20 licenses, FANTASTIC!!! and running in full raid obviously with WD black drives!
 
Some how I doubt anyone enterprise sized data center archive tape library is going to see much use for clients with Small Business Server. How about offering up a realistic solution?
 
This is the last I will say on the subject as this is just becoming a flame war. I am amazed you and others can quickly dismiss LTO technology in data protection. If you come to Nashville I can show you many companies who still use it. Disk I am sure has its place, but to say that I and others who still very much utilize LTO are old school and that our abilities should be in question is very unfair. LTO is still a viable solution!

fooTunny
 
fooTunny said:
This is the last I will say on the subject as this is just becoming a flame war. I am amazed you and others can quickly dismiss LTO technology in data protection. If you come to Nashville I can show you many companies who still use it. Disk I am sure has its place, but to say that I and others who still very much utilize LTO are old school and that our abilities should be in question is very unfair. LTO is still a viable solution!

fooTunny
Click to expand...

OK, I'll let you do a sales pitch for tapes....give me a few line items of advantages of spending money on tape systems, versus image based backups to NAS 'n offsite, with local virtualization recovery options.

For the amount of money you coaxed out of your client for that Oracle storagetek unit you linked above...I can't help but to wonder which option you client would have chosen if a solution like Dattobackups Siris was proposed.
 
All these big ass toys are cool but what about the Small single server that is usually the case with SBS. You know what the OP was asking about to begin with?
 
nlinecomputers said:
All these big ass toys are cool but what about the Small single server that is usually the case with SBS. You know what the OP was asking about to begin with?
Click to expand...

Solution provided in my first reply in this thread, plus...the fancy backup I was talking about...they do have smaller Siris units for single servers..I have lots of clients that use a single SBS box using that backup product.
 
I wouldn't use a single drive that large for any kind of important backup, they have way too high of a failure rate. I have replaced quite a few older tape systems with quantum RDX drives, its an easy transition for those clients who are used to taking tapes offsite nightly and cost effective.
 
firststatepc said:
I have replaced quite a few older tape systems with quantum RDX drives, its an easy transition for those clients who are used to taking tapes offsite nightly and cost effective.
Click to expand...

I was using lots of RDX drives around 5-6 years ago as our first step in moving away from tape drives. The RDX units are excellent. Actual manufacturer is Tandberg, Dell sells them as the RD1000. HP sells them as the RDX.

2.5" removable SATA drives (basically laptop hard drives in a cartridge instead of tapes).

Fast
Long life... no need to purchase new tapes every year, so in the long haul the return on investment is good.
No cleaning cartridges..save money there.

Need to ensure backup product that client uses or will use supports them though.
 
firststatepc said:
I wouldn't use a single drive that large for any kind of important backup, they have way too high of a failure rate. I have replaced quite a few older tape systems with quantum RDX drives, its an easy transition for those clients who are used to taking tapes offsite nightly and cost effective.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone was advocating that. All my clients use multiple drives 3 or more rotated daily and off site.
 
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