Post-Bitlocker Blues

[britechguy]

I’m not fond of them.

I'm fond of some, not of others. Just like has been the case with each and every new Windows version since the first new Windows version.

As @Porthos has pointed out, during the early days of any Windows version clever folks out there find the ways, where possible, to make tweaks to make things work "more like I'm used to" and, very often, Microsoft is making exactly those same sorts of changes based on user feedback not far behind.

But I say the following universally, "What you, the individual user, do and do not like is entirely irrelevant. Operating systems are not now, and never were, bespoke pieces of software tailored to your individual tastes. They are designed to be Swiss Army knife type affairs meant to allow diverse demographics to do what needs doing and where every one of those demographics will have things they love and things they hate. If you're staying with any operating system, you take what the maker gives you and customize it within the capabilities of doing so."

We really need to disabuse people of the idea that their personal like or dislike of any given operating system's design idioms is what should be the primary factor in selection. Those design idioms change, but if you have time and effort (often years of it) invested in a given ecosystem you can and should "go with the flow" as a matter of logic, reason, and in the case of businesses, sound business practice.

 

[NviGate Systems]

I always use diskpart from install media to blast any partitions, why boot from multiple media when the tools you need are on the install media?

I think more techs should get comfortable using diskpart, I fear it's not understood enough and some fear it just because it's text based.

 

[Sky-Knight]

I always use diskpart from install media to blast any partitions, why boot from multiple media when the tools you need are on the install media?

I think more techs should get comfortable using diskpart, I fear it's not understood enough and some fear it just because it's text based.

It's not like it's hard either!

List disk
Select disk
List part (to confirm)
clean

I don't usually partition from there, but nuking disks from orbit is easier with diskpart than it is with diskmanager.

 

[britechguy]

It's not like it's hard either!

Amen!

And, for certain things, and this is one of them, one of my favorite old IT quotes applies:

A GUI is to a command line as TV is to a book.

Certain things are just so much simpler to achieve with the command line and this is one of them.

 

[fincoder]

This system ships with Win 11 home.

@Erick should try with a Win 11 install USB and see if the drive is visible. If so then get back to the client and tell them it's going to cost more in labour due to needing to slipstream storage drivers just to install Win10, and other potential driver issues after the OS is installed (unless Win 10 drivers are listed on HP's driver page).

The good news is that, from my experience, Win 10 install will pick up the Win 11 license and activate OK.

 

[Erick]

Ok so its an 11th Gen CPU and chipset. Win10 isn’t going to have drivers for it. You will have to download the IRST drivers from intel or hp and place them on a USB drive and use the load drivers button to slip them in the install. Changing to. ACHI in bios might also work.

It worked like a charm.
For the sheer sake of getting this stupid behemoth of an AIO off of my bench I thank you for your help.

 

[NETWizz]

It worked like a charm.
For the sheer sake of getting this stupid behemoth of an AIO off of my bench I thank you for your help.

If you don't see the drive, regardless of the Windows version, you need to add the storage drivers.. You click Load Driver, point at a USB stick and then point it at the storage driver.

Your storage driver is here https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...indows-10-64-bit-for-nuc8i7hnk-nuc8i7hvk.html

 

[NETWizz]

By the way, it is NOT Bitlocker that is confusing Windows whatsoever. It is lack of storage drivers

I have an All-In-One on my bench that came in with Bitlocker enabled.
Customer said to wipe it and install Windows 10.
Booting from Windows 10 install media doesn't show the drive even after deleting partitions.
I can boot from Hirem's Boot CD and see the drive and use DISKPART, EaseUS Partition Master and even Disc Manager to delete partitions, format, etc.
However for the WIndows 10 install media? Nothing. No drive there.

I just want to let you know it was never Bitlcoker. It was lack of storage drivers. Back in the day we used to have to press F6 to install SCSI or RAID drivers (SATA too).

It looked like this

What you have is a newer Intel chipset than existed when Windows 10 came out. Most likely if you download the latest build of Windows 10 and make a brand, new memory stick it is very likely to work.

==>Another option is to go into the BIOS and turn off Intel RAID or whatever it says and set it to AHCI and try again.

 

[britechguy]

Most likely if you download the latest build of Windows 10 and make a brand, new memory stick it is very likely to work.

As a side note, and I'll probably be castigated (again) for saying so, this is the very reason why I make fresh copies of the Windows 10 (and it will be for 11, too) installation media once every couple of months, at a minimum, if I'm doing a lot of fresh installs/reinstalls.

At periods of transition (and the transition for what varies) there can be substantial differences in the ISO files and the install media constructed dynamically, too.

I find it impossible to believe that Windows 10 Version 21H2 install media will not have all the drivers, or the ability to download them on the fly at install time, that Windows 11 has for the same hardware. The source is the same, the hardware is the same, and in the land of stupid things Microsoft might do, I don't think that would include not using the drivers necessary for the hardware being installed on when that hardware existed prior to when the install media came into existence and where they have those drivers in The Great Microsoft Driver Library in the Cloud.

 

[NETWizz]

As a side note, and I'll probably be castigated (again) for saying so, this is the very reason why I make fresh copies of the Windows 10 (and it will be for 11, too) installation media once every couple of months, at a minimum, if I'm doing a lot of fresh installs/reinstalls.

Agreed. That and to not make a recent copy as soon as each new build comes out i.e. 21H2, or 22H1 (whatever we are at now) is almost negligent because after a clean-install the first thing to then do is an in-place upgrade. Hence, it is best to just make new media just like you said. I completely agree 100%

At periods of transition (and the transition for what varies) there can be substantial differences in the ISO files and the install media constructed dynamically, too.

Yeah. I am sure they update drivers too. Personally, I always use a memory stick now otherwise a PXE boot. Even computers from 18 years ago can boot to USB, so it kind of obsoletes ISO files for the most part. About the only thing the ISO is good for is mounting to a VMWare or Hyper-V box. I mean personally, I do not even have an optical drive in any computer anymore though I have a USB 3.0 Blueray burner somewhere as a legacy crutch.

I find it impossible to believe that Windows 10 Version 21H2 install media will not have all the drivers, or the ability to download them on the fly at install time, that Windows 11 has for the same hardware. The source is the same, the hardware is the same, and in the land of stupid things Microsoft might do, I don't think that would include not using the drivers necessary for the hardware being installed on when that hardware existed prior to when the install media came into existence and where they have those drivers in The Great Microsoft Driver Library in the Cloud.

Agreed Windows 10 almost certainly has all the storage drivers Windows 11 does if you get a recent build. In fact, Windows 11 is still Windows 10 with a re-skinned Interface as far as I can tell.


Even Microsoft lists it as Windows 10.0.22000

 

[britechguy]

About the only thing the ISO is good for is mounting to a VMWare or Hyper-V box.

Au contraire!

I use the ISO primarily for two things:

1. Doing a repair install (if the version is the same as the one already running) or offline feature update (if the version is newer). No need for media, just mount the ISO with File Explorer and you're ready to kick off setup.exe and go.

2. Actually creating USB media when I need it. I like downloading once (or at least infrequently) and not keeping a "dead thumb drive" if all I need install media for is to do an odd machine. Once that install is done, the thumb drive goes back to other uses.

I haven't used optical media for anything for ages now, though I do still want an optical drive so I can rip CDs as I backfill my music library, often with CDs I come across in thrift shops. I'll probably be doing that for years to come. Luckily, even if the optical drive built-in passes from this earth, I already own an external CD/DVD drive to cover that eventuality.

 

[Sky-Knight]

That 2nd bit is going to be a bit annoying since you have to disable secure boot to use Rufus. And with Windows 11 that's a bit of a problem. So far I haven't had a problem installing without Secure Boot, and then flipping it on when I'm done. But I'm not sure how long that's going to sick with this new world Windows 11 is bringing.

But I too keep an ISO library full of stuff that I "burn" to USB as needed via Rufus. It's much faster than using official tools that do a download per drive.

 

[britechguy]

disable secure boot to use Rufus.

Not since Version 3.17 came out. From their main page, changelog section:

• Version 3.17(2021.10.23) [BUGFIX RELEASE]
  • Fix MBR not being properly cleared
  • Fix commandline hogger not being deleted on exit
  • Improve ReFS handling for platforms that support it
  • Update UEFI:NTFS to latest and remove Secure Boot notice since this version is Secure Boot signed
  • Update Grub4DOS to latest

 

[nlinecomputers]

As a side note, and I'll probably be castigated (again) for saying so, this is the very reason why I make fresh copies of the Windows 10 (and it will be for 11, too) installation media once every couple of months, at a minimum, if I'm doing a lot of fresh installs/reinstalls.

No need to do that, usually, as they only update the media on build releases. I say usually because there two maybe 3 exceptions where the roll out build had a serious bug and they rolled out a replacement. All other updates are in the cumulative updates. So if you connect to the internet during the installation you will have that download and slipped in during the install.

For example 21H2 the current build has not been updated since it’s release. If you download it today the checksum hash would be the same for both.

 

[nlinecomputers]

That 2nd bit is going to be a bit annoying since you have to disable secure boot to use Rufus. And with Windows 11 that's a bit of a problem. So far I haven't had a problem installing without Secure Boot, and then flipping it on when I'm done. But I'm not sure how long that's going to sick with this new world Windows 11 is bringing.

But I too keep an ISO library full of stuff that I "burn" to USB as needed via Rufus. It's much faster than using official tools that do a download per drive.

I use the Windows 7 iso burn tool. It still burns iso just fine.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Not since Version 3.17 came out. From their main page, changelog section:

• Version 3.17(2021.10.23) [BUGFIX RELEASE]
  • Fix MBR not being properly cleared
  • Fix commandline hogger not being deleted on exit
  • Improve ReFS handling for platforms that support it
  • Update UEFI:NTFS to latest and remove Secure Boot notice since this version is Secure Boot signed
  • Update Grub4DOS to latest

Very nice! I missed that!

@nlinecomputers I could do that, but Rufus is vastly more flexible.

 

[NJW]

1. Doing a repair install (if the version is the same as the one already running) or offline feature update (if the version is newer). No need for media, just mount the ISO with File Explorer and you're ready to kick off setup.exe and go.

2. Actually creating USB media when I need it. I like downloading once (or at least infrequently) and not keeping a "dead thumb drive" if all I need install media for is to do an odd machine. Once that install is done, the thumb drive goes back to other uses.

Or:
3. Add the .iso file to your Ventoy USB drive for the best of both worlds – you can still mount the .iso directly in Windows for a repair install or boot into the Ventoy menu and subsequently into the Windows .iso, including Secure Boot support*.

*The Ventoy docs suggest that Secure Boot support is 'not perfect enough', so it is optional (default: off), but I have had good results with it.

Or add it to an iodd drive, of course.