Need to get up to speed as quick as possible

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brandonkick

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So at my part time job, I feel they are in need to go with a proper server setup.

I'd like to, if reasonably possible, set up and manage it myself. I have some "high level" ideas of how some things work, but I am in no way at a state where I am capable of designing, setting up, rolling out, and supporting this.

The main need, is file sharing / backup. When I first got there, they had no proper network sharing or backup plan in place. I had a "better" solution set up at first, a few years ago and then about 1.5 years ago or so I got them set up with a synology nas, 4 x 2 TB drives in RAID 10. Migrated most people to use the data directly off the machine, for redundancy and also to leverage file sharing permission which are better then what windows desktop os (non sever) has to offer.

Now they are running into an issue where work is "rolling back". They will work on files, shut them down, double check them before they leave, and then randomly they come back in and some portion of yesterdays work is rolled back partially. These are auto cad files and excel files mostly, that we have noticed. This has to be stopped ASAP.

For now, I am blaming the synology since it's happening to everyone who uses these files. I thought at first it was just one user, and was thinking it was some configuration on his software or his machine causing the issue. Since it's doing it to multiple people, I'm really suspecting the synology. Although it is possible it's the software itself, but these are the newest versions of autodesk autocad and microsoft excel. I'm just at a loss, so I've temporary routed the files that just this department uses onto a workstation and shared among those four machines directly. The original files still live on the synology, and will get "synced / backed up" with syncback on a nightly basis.

I'm really thinking it's time to get a proper server setup, and I'm not looking for someone to write a step by step guide but either provide the bullet points or maybe guides that can help get me started.

We have 15 machines currently, 3 of which are laptops. Most are dell optiplex that were all ordered at the same time around 4.5 years ago. Three are iBuyPower desktops. One is an ASUS. The laptops are all dell laptops. In a perfect world, I'd like them to all be the same make / model. That's really not in the budget.

All but two machines are running windows 7 PRO. Two are running windows 10 PRO.

There is wireless access that the laptops use.

Almost every user has his / her own printer.

There's a comcast cable internet connection, and a comcast gateway. Following that it goes up to a 24 port switch (D-Link?) and that drops into a room with 4 people in it with an 8 port Cisco small business switch. All switches are unmanaged. Wifi is provided with a linksys access point. I do have in my office a Ubiquit Unifi AC PRO. I'm the only one who connects to that, long story... but yeah it's there.

So the goals are:

Redundancy / Backup (and stopping this "work rollback")

A cleaner / easier way to manage users and their permissions

Possibly VPN access for employees when they are home or on the road


Can this all be accomplished with one physical server:

This machine with handle active directory.
This machine will be a file server.
This machine will probably also be a print server.

Which server OS best suits our needs? I was leaning towards some flavor of Windows Server 2012.

Do you configure software installation on the client machine, or does the workstation become a thin client and all software is actually run from the server? If it is optional, I'd tend to think that changing the workstations to thin clients will cause us licensing issues? It would be easier, in the long run, for these workstations to become basically thin clients.


Their needs aren't super complicated, as I see it. I just need to get my feet wet fast. If they are willing to pop on this, I probably have maybe 6-8 weeks tops to learn what I need to learn. I know the first though most are going to get is to hire a pro to come do it, and I'm not 100% against it... but if its even partially reasonable I can learn enough to get this going in the time frame stated, I'd like to try. Even if we do go with a pro, I'm going to need to learn enough to provide basic support. I'm definitely not trying to go out charging business to support their networks, but I'd like to get these guys on a better setup and learn how to setup and manage it if possible.

EDIT:

Also, I do not mean to come off in an offensive way... I realize I will still have much to learn, even if I am able to work my through getting this rolled out in 2 months time. Not trying to suggest I can become well versed in that time frame.
 
It's definitely doable to get up to speed in that time frame. Focus on the backup/sync strategy, everything else is pretty basic and just a matter of getting familiar with it. I think you are in the best position to choose a strategy for the company, not an outsourced tech that knows how to setup AD (no offence).

You talk about thin clients, does that mean considering running an RDS server? That means more licencing, and using software licenced for it, and I can't imagine using autocad on a RDS server would be enjoyable for them.

I take it they are accessing files across the network? So it sounds like when they work on a file, it's not actually saving to the file on the network.

I think you should take a step back and look into a version control strategy. Have you looked into AutoCAD Vault?
 
The files are kept on the synology and they are accessed from there. I have folder shares mapped on the individual workstations back to the synology. So when a CAD file is opened, it is pulled from the Synology machine. When you say the files are not actually on the network.... do you mean that a copy is pulled locally onto the workstation? They open and save, as it appears, directly to the synology.

I'm just not sure how the software conifguration worked, exactly, when it comes to the software they used... like autocad and excel. I figured the software installs were maintained on the client workstations, and not the server, just wanted to be sure. Sounds like the approach of trying to load all the software to the server and running it from there isn't a good fit for the types of software they use.

I have not considered AutoCAD Vault. I think the confusing thing is that it' something that is going on overnight. They work on a file say from noon to 5 PM, close it and open it to verify all their changes have persisted and everything looks good before they leave. They come in the next morning, open up a drawing or excel file, and all of a sudden some or all of the previous days work is gone. Doesn't happen to every file, doesn't happen every day. But it does happen on say drawing files where no one out side of the drafting department has the ability to edit those files. They know it's not a case of someone doing it on purpose or accident, by directly messing with the drawings. It's a very strange problem. It's random, and just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
 
brandonkick said:
The files are kept on the synology and they are accessed from there. I have folder shares mapped on the individual workstations back to the synology. So when a CAD file is opened, it is pulled from the Synology machine. When you say the files are not actually on the network.... do you mean that a copy is pulled locally onto the workstation? They open and save, as it appears, directly to the synology.

I'm just not sure how the software conifguration worked, exactly, when it comes to the software they used... like autocad and excel. I figured the software installs were maintained on the client workstations, and not the server, just wanted to be sure. Sounds like the approach of trying to load all the software to the server and running it from there isn't a good fit for the types of software they use.

I have not considered AutoCAD Vault. I think the confusing thing is that it' something that is going on overnight. They work on a file say from noon to 5 PM, close it and open it to verify all their changes have persisted and everything looks good before they leave. They come in the next morning, open up a drawing or excel file, and all of a sudden some or all of the previous days work is gone. Doesn't happen to every file, doesn't happen every day. But it does happen on say drawing files where no one out side of the drafting department has the ability to edit those files. They know it's not a case of someone doing it on purpose or accident, by directly messing with the drawings. It's a very strange problem. It's random, and just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
Click to expand...

Is the offline file cache enabled on the mapped drive?
 
It sounds like an offline file cache issue to me. If offline cache is enabled, then they very well could be working on 100% local versions of the file that are not being synced back.
 
Sorry for my scattered posts, I really want to help you out, but I was having a scattered day.

Originally I was thinking there must be some way they are opening it and not saving it. But if they are definitely saving it then the only thing that makes sense to me is an offline file syncing issue. The thing is, just setting up a Windows file server instead of Synology wouldn't necessarily solve that issue.

The thing is, a typical small business server setup isn't that much different from what you have going on now, just more centrally managed.

To make sure user's files are backed up their documents,desktop folders are redirected to be on the file server. With Offline sync enabled (which it is on redirected folders by default) users can then work on the files while not connected to the server, and they get uploaded back to the file server when back connected. If the file has been changed since the user had contacted the server last, it creates a sync conflict and the user had to decide which file to keep. If they don't notice the conflict (or ignore it) then the file is not synced. This all sound pretty good, since most of the responsibility for a file being backed up resides on the server rather than the client. However Offline files can be a hard mistress, and if there are problems with the file cache on a client, you can get into a world of hurt. Basically the same as you're describing above.

Another option for backing up users in a small business is a sync client installed on each computer syncing the users' files the file server (which has a backup with versioning). You don't need a Windows Server for this, and Synology has their own sync client. However, last I checked there was no way to automate the deployment of it, you would have to set it up on each computer (which would be unfeasible in larger organizations). The upside to this method is that the source files reside locally, so users can access them faster than over the network. The downside is that the local computer has more responsibility for making sure those files get to the server.

BTW Synology's Hyper Backup is awesome for file backups and versioning for the file server.

Active Directory is never the wrong answer, the problem is that central management can cause some processes to leave the place where work is done. For example, a new handoff is created where HR now has to go to IT in order to get a new employee setup. Things that change frequency for departments shouldn't be left for IT to centrally manage. IT should only be doing things that are set it and forget it. (well, and fix it too) The fastest way to make a user who can't figure out how to do anything on their own is to make it so users can't do anything on their own.

Some Synology NAS can now be an AD server, personally I would rather have it installed separately from the file server (just create a Samba DC on linux) but the benefit would be some support from Synology.

As for a printer server, I wouldn't do a full print server. With everyone having their own printer, they can manage their own print queues. A full printer server would add the extra step of having to contact the server every time before printing, instead of printing directly to the printer. You can however set it up so printers will install automatically, but the clients will still communicate directly to the server.

Also, there's no reason why you can't keep your Synology file server even if you get a Windows Server.
 
I thank you for all the effort you have put into helping me!

I'm just really going to be curious if the offline file caching is disabled. I'll have to check each workstation. I'm worried and thinking that I'm going to find it's not enabled on any of the machines. This really is a real PITA type problem to fix, especially if my suspicions are true.

It just baffles me that they leave, and all of a sudden their files are rolling back. And it's intermittent to boot.

Thanks again for all the help though!
 
Offline cache isn't something you usually use on mapped drives. When you do folder redirection of certain user library folders...it can happen.

Files are kept on the server (or NAS)..and you work with those files "across" the network, the programs installed on your workstation, open/edit/save the files "over there"...on the server.

The rolling back issue with the current setup is odd, shouldn't happen. The NAS just holds files for the network. I'm thinking somehow maybe people are working with files from redirected Documents folder, and the offline file sync occasionally breaks?

Most design software has some vault/data management option...it may be time to add that option.

How much "storage" do you current have in use? As in...how much data right now?
ANY other software to be hosted on the server? What about accounting?
 
Most software doesn't need to be on the server. The one software I'm thinking maybe could go on
there might be quickbooks. That's what they use for accounting.

Total data usage on the synology sits at 589GB used out of 3.57 TB total (4x2TB which really comes
out to be 1.82TB each when formatted). Raid 10

I'm 99% sure there is no folder redirection going on. I'm sharing everything directly from the NAS.
I've never set it up myself, and I'm the only one who would have unless it happens by default somehow.

Yeah all our files live on the synology, at least for drafting department and they are opened/edited/saved
directly to and from the synology.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Offline cache isn't something you usually use on mapped drives. When you do folder redirection of certain user library folders...it can happen.
Click to expand...

Users should be able to turn on the offline cache for certain folders themselves. It's always been disabled in my domain (except for redirected folders who's offline cache isn't disabled when the offline cache is disable through the GPO)

Maybe someone got tired of the slow opening of files across the network and learned to enable the offline cache and taught some of their buddies? And it was long enough ago without issues they can't recognize the connection to the current issue?
 
They could...it's not there by default. But letting end users have such free control, can lead to problems like this, if it's the cause. As we all know, offline files isn't the most reliable thing in the world.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
offline files isn't the most reliable thing in the world.
Click to expand...

I once quoted a medical office (this was pre-HIPAA) where they had setup offline files on each of 3 doctors' laptops for the main patient file directory on the server -- Just in case the doctor wanted to review a file when they were home or travelling. They must have had 40,000 files or so (!) I don't think it was ever not syncing. I'm kinda glad I didn't get hired.
 
I'm really, really doubting anyone did turn it on... but it is possible I suppose. They normally do not muck around. They tend to stick just to what they use.. the browser, excel/word, autocad, outlook....

I will check tomorrow, wasn't able to spend a lot of time there today.

This was happening and then seemed to go away, or at least clam way down once I moved everything onto the synology. Then one users workstation was having really bad issues and we I ended up having to set him up with an SSD and fresh reinstall of everything. That was maybe two or three months ago. Now it's starting to creep back in, although yesterday they report no incident. We have temporarily moved away from the synology to prove if or not it's contributing to the problem... one day just isn't long enough to tell anything.
 
So, as I've learned, 4 of the 7 machines that regularly access these files DID have offline file caching enabled.

Really scratched my head to figure out why the other 3 didn't and why I couldn't click the "Manage Offline Files" link
or why the service was missing. Well that's because those 3 are Home editions of windows. This feature isn't available
there.

I turned it off on all the machines that had it enabled.

Now we play the waiting game. After a week or so, maybe two, I'm going to move the files back to the synology. Here is
to REALLY hoping this works out.


In the regards of the server stuff, I have found that Eli the Computer Guy has a lot of great windows servers videos on his
youtube channel. Learning a good bit from them!
 
Yeah... thanks again.

I'm still not 100% sure that is what was causing it, but it was suggested by you and stone cat so there is a high chance that was it. Hopefully the problem doesn't come back.

And yeah, I was quite alarmed to find machines with home versions of windows, but the ones that have it were machines I didn't select for usage. So if we do go full blown sever (if the problem stops we most likely won't) then I will remember to factor in the need to upgrade those.
 
Main reason it surprises me is that, well for one, all of the other machines are Dell business grade
optiplex machines and they all have pro versions of windows. These three, iBuyPower machines,
they all have windows home... again wasn't involved with their purchase a lot but I guess it was
surprising to see an upper end OEM machine ship with windows home premium.
 
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