MIcrosoft 365/Old Apple Issue

[Velvis]

I have a client with an older Mac that can't run Monterey and they got an email saying after July they will only be able to view Office docs in the applications, and they will need to use the web apps to edit files. Is this the only solution? Seems a little weird than an old version of Office wouldn't just continue working on old hardware.

[td]We have an update about Microsoft 365 on one of your macOS devices.
Starting Ju‍ly 1‍3, 20‍26, a security certificate update is required to keep Microsoft 365 and Office apps current. On devices that cannot support this update, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, and OneNote will switch to view-only mode. You can still open and read all your files, but editing and saving will not be available on this device. Your files are safe.
Based on our records, one of the macOS devices linked to your account cannot run macOS 12 (Monterey) or later. This means it will not be able to fully support Microsoft 365 apps after Ju‍ly 1‍3. Your subscription is active, your account is unchanged, and everything you have saved in OneDrive is still yours. Here's how to keep going:[/td]

 

[Sky-Knight]

Nope... M365 licensing requires you to operate on supported software.

The customer can update to Monterey, or they can use web apps.

There is no "old version", M365 pushes you forward... which is what software subscriptions do. Out of support and out of date software are problems to be managed, not ignored.

 

[Velvis]

Nope... M365 licensing requires you to operate on supported software.

The customer can update to Monterey, or they can use web apps.

There is no "old version", M365 pushes you forward... which is what software subscriptions do. Out of support and out of date software are problems to be managed, not ignored.

Yeah, now that you say that it dawns on me she isn't using a purchased one time version of Office.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Yeah, now that you say that it dawns on me she isn't using a purchased one time version of Office.

Even if she was, it would lose the ability to connect to M365 online services.

 

[britechguy]

I think that Microsoft is really "missing the boat" in not releasing standalone, and completely "de-clouded and M365-ed" versions of Office moving forward.

I know of a lot of people who'd gladly purchase this once every few years because they want nothing to do with AI, subscription software, or "the cloud." Whether any of that is wise or not is beside the point, that demographic/those demographics (as its 3 circles of a Venn diagram with significant overlap) exist and are not small.

For myself, I much prefer M365, and if I ever wanted to walk away know of at least 2 office suites that are so close in look and feel to MS-Office that they're what I'd switch to.

 

[lan101]

I think that Microsoft is really "missing the boat" in not releasing standalone, and completely "de-clouded and M365-ed" versions of Office moving forward.

I know of a lot of people who'd gladly purchase this once every few years because they want nothing to do with AI, subscription software, or "the cloud." Whether any of that is wise or not is beside the point, that demographic/those demographics (as its 3 circles of a Venn diagram with significant overlap) exist and are not small.

For myself, I much prefer M365, and if I ever wanted to walk away know of at least 2 office suites that are so close in look and feel to MS-Office that they're what I'd switch to.

I just had someone purchase office 2019 license the other day because that's what they had and wanted it also on another computer. Just an older lady doing some basic word/excel docs here and there and some powerpoints for some membership thing she's involved in.

I feel like anyone can get along with word alternatives but most are very picky about excel or powerpoint. Is the other suites good for those folks that do more than the average home or small business user would use? Usually excel and powerpoint users just stick with what they know most of the time in my experiences.

 

[fincoder]

I think that Microsoft is really "missing the boat" in not releasing standalone, and completely "de-clouded and M365-ed" versions of Office moving forward.

They still sell this now, the Office 2024 suites, and they are fully supported for 5 years after the initial release (2029). In Australia we have retail packed versions and ESD (electronic software delivery - license key by email) from IT distributors and retailers. Is there any indiciation they're discontinuing the "perpetual" versions? *

Although they require registering the license key with an online Microsoft account, and the apps save to the cloud by default, they are ordinary standalone desktop apps that don't require cloud or 365.

* Maybe an indication: it appears the only suites available from my distributor are Office 2024 Home (non-commercial use of Word, Excel, Powerpoint) and Office 2024 Home & Business (adds commercial use license, and Outlook Classic if it's still able to be installed). So other Pro apps like Access aren't available in a 2024 suite.

 

[Sky-Knight]

Everyone can feel the way they want... Microsoft isn't missing anything. They're chasing the revenue, and there's no revenue in ancient out of support software. More to the point, there's very real risk in using it.

Office 2019 has HUGE vulnerabilities in it, and allowing it to be used especially with an elderly client is a material breach of trust and enables ID theft among other things... it's not a victimless process.

If you want something fixed and not cloud, you're not wanting Microsoft software, that ship has sailed. LibreOffice, OpenOffice, etc... the market has plenty of options... but you'll note they aren't terribly well supported, and maintained by either volunteers (FOSS software) or tiny dev teams doing work on the side. There isn't enough money in that market segment to support the action, which is why Microsoft stopped doing it.

Being cheap as a cost, SaaS solves the problem by putting the software online where it can be supported by ad revenue. Word is a TV station... because it is never "paid" for.

Office 2024 is the most recent perpetual release: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/office-2024
Office 2021 preceded it. Each release gets 5 years of life, a new release will show up when there's about 2 years before the cut off. So in effect, every 36 months, there's a new version of office.

Microsoft has not said they're going to change this pattern. There is no such thing as perpetual licensing... not really... it's just a 5 year prepaid subscription with no updates and crap service in that period.

Next version of Office is due to be out next year if the pattern holds, and it very likely will... so look forward to Office 2027.

 

[britechguy]

The year 2029 is not far away at all, so I wouldn't recommend Office 2024 at this point.

I have told clients that want functional equivalents of MS-Office to consider either LibreOffice or SoftMaker Office (Free, if their needs are basic). Both have the equivalents of Word, Excel, and PowerPoint.

But I see what's coming, and Microsoft will have tons of people using out-of-support standalone versions of Office (which they won't, and shouldn't support) and many others who will go to alternatives who would not otherwise have done so. They are giving up a market segment of not inconsiderable size that would be easy to keep captured.

I also don't agree that using out-of-support Office is dangerous in all cases. I know people using versions of Office all the way back to 2013 for simple word processing, looking at spreadsheets, and similar. I have no idea how anything would or could be stolen from anyone using any office suite where no login or connection to cyberspace is necessary.

I'm sure @Sky-Knight would die of apoplexy if he knew what's actually going on, and has been going on, for decades now (literally) as far as the software in use for years after end of support in both the residential and micro-business environments. That's not going to change anytime soon. It's just a fact of life. I push all my clients to get onto software (of any type) that's in-support rather than ever using out-of-support software. Many will not do so.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@britechguy I know exactly what's going on. I just don't excuse terrible decisions anymore. I'm done with that... I almost lost everything I own playing nice with it... that part of my life is over, forever, dead and gone.

If you can't keep up, get out of the market. There are options that aren't Microsoft branded that will work, and have support paths. If you're broke, go FOSS... but you're going to have to learn to fix things on your own. That's how the world works... time... or money... you're going to spend one or the other, usually both.

The hunk of my life that supports home users died because I did exactly that. Shortly after one of them tried to sue me for "not warning him" when his insurance failed to pay out when his ID was stolen via malware thanks to an ancient version of Outlook he wouldn't give up.

You can keep being nonchalant about this... but the hammer is already falling.

 

[britechguy]

@Sky-Knight

I'm not nonchalant, I'm cold-eyed realistic. I don't get to make every decision for my clients (nor, for that matter, do you).

I have to deal with the circumstances I am presented with. I can (and do) give best-practice advice. Whether someone listens or not is their choice, not mine. But I don't actively support (as in provide direct support for) anything that's out of support, whether it's hardware or software. But I can't, won't, and should not think it's my place to remove anything from a computer that's not my own. The best I can do is "not touch" it, which I don't.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@britechguy Oh I'm aware, I've just made the decision that I simply will never accept payment for work on anything that has unsupported software on it. My liability is supposedly limited to the dollars that passed hands... but I won't accept even $1 for that work... on advise of my attorney.

 

[lan101]

@britechguy I know exactly what's going on. I just don't excuse terrible decisions anymore. I'm done with that... I almost lost everything I own playing nice with it... that part of my life is over, forever, dead and gone.

If you can't keep up, get out of the market. There are options that aren't Microsoft branded that will work, and have support paths. If you're broke, go FOSS... but you're going to have to learn to fix things on your own. That's how the world works... time... or money... you're going to spend one or the other, usually both.

The hunk of my life that supports home users died because I did exactly that. Shortly after one of them tried to sue me for "not warning him" when his insurance failed to pay out when his ID was stolen via malware thanks to an ancient version of Outlook he wouldn't give up.

You can keep being nonchalant about this... but the hammer is already falling.

That's wild that someone would sue for a not warning him about an outdated software. What's to say you didn't warn him verbally and he just didn't take the advice. Crazy world we live in lol.

 

[Sky-Knight]

That's wild that someone would sue for a not warning him about an outdated software. What's to say you didn't warn him verbally and he just didn't take the advice. Crazy world we live in lol.

Clarification:

A former client sued me despite the fact that I had explicitly warned him about the risk. He ignored the warning, suffered the consequences, and ultimately lost the case but I still had to pay legal fees to defend myself.

I had written documentation proving that I warned him; the warning was included directly on the invoice he paid. His claim was that I did not “emphasize strongly enough” the severity of the risk. The judge rejected that argument.

Because of that experience, I no longer work on any system that contains unsupported software. If I encounter unsupported software, I immediately stop work and notify the customer. They may choose to remediate the issue at that moment, or they may take the system back in its current state and leave.

If they decline remediation, I formally refuse service on the spot. I also require a signed liability waiver and provide written notice that service has been terminated.

As you can imagine, this basically but the final nail in what was left of my residential facing business. Not that I care, that market is made out of cell phones and tablets now, and my eyes just can't handle that tiny work anyway.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Looks like a scenario for alternative 3rd party office productivity apps, like Star Office (not sure if their Mac version is still free), LibreOffice, Apache Open Office, etc.

Old computers with outdated operating systems suffer from more than just loss of connectivity to Microsoft 365....there are other pitfalls...your old browser won't connect to your online bank account or medical online accounts, insurance company portals, etc etc.

 

[timeshifter]

I have a client with an older Mac that can't run Monterey

Look how far back Monterey is.

Apple macOS

Check end-of-life, release policy and support schedule for Apple macOS.

endoflife.date

Other things are going to break, like their browser and or access to online banking. You're not helping them by trying to come up with a solution that doesn't include a new Mac.

 

[lan101]

Clarification:

A former client sued me despite the fact that I had explicitly warned him about the risk. He ignored the warning, suffered the consequences, and ultimately lost the case but I still had to pay legal fees to defend myself.

I had written documentation proving that I warned him; the warning was included directly on the invoice he paid. His claim was that I did not “emphasize strongly enough” the severity of the risk. The judge rejected that argument.

Because of that experience, I no longer work on any system that contains unsupported software. If I encounter unsupported software, I immediately stop work and notify the customer. They may choose to remediate the issue at that moment, or they may take the system back in its current state and leave.

If they decline remediation, I formally refuse service on the spot. I also require a signed liability waiver and provide written notice that service has been terminated.

As you can imagine, this basically but the final nail in what was left of my residential facing business. Not that I care, that market is made out of cell phones and tablets now, and my eyes just can't handle that tiny work anyway.

Yeah there's an endless amount of counter arguments that could be made in these cases. I don't see how any client would ever win a case like that...but yeah it sucks because it was still a waste of your time and money to have to show up to defend yourself.

 

[britechguy]

I had written documentation proving that I warned him; the warning was included directly on the invoice he paid. His claim was that I did not “emphasize strongly enough” the severity of the risk. The judge rejected that argument.

And, for myself, were I you and if I knew this, and you did, the countersuit seeking damages would have been instantaneous.

That client's suit was without merit. A countersuit in light of that and the facts was not.

If I'm going to engage an attorney in a situation like that one, I will make sure that a lesson is taught.

Given the client demographic I serve, and given my unwillingness to take your stance (which is just fine), I continue to serve folks with their systems "as is" when it comes to routine fixes, which is what I usually do. My scope is the job, and only the job, and nothing more. And, luckily, my invoices are generally more detailed than some people's reports are, so what I did is generally covered in more than adequate detail to put lie to the idea that I said or did anything else.