Mac OS versions official end of life status

[Sky-Knight]

@phaZed, the problem with Android is the fragmented marketplace. Google really should be pushing updates themselves for their own OS. Having those updates filter via the phone manufacturers, and then further filtered by the carriers is preventing security patching from making to end points entirely. Apple's ecosystem on the phone side is superior. They havne't made the best use of it, but it is demonstrably superior.

And I like you make a regular habit of getting Windows / Linux based desktops and laptops last 10 years, it's not even all that hard. Which is funny to me, because the Apple people out here are usually the environmentally conscious people.... meanwhile my PCs generate much less ewaste.

 

[overburnz]

@phaZed, the problem with Android is the fragmented marketplace. Google really should be pushing updates themselves for their own OS. Having those updates filter via the phone manufacturers, and then further filtered by the carriers is preventing security patching from making to end points entirely. Apple's ecosystem on the phone side is superior. They havne't made the best use of it, but it is demonstrably superior.

And I like you make a regular habit of getting Windows / Linux based desktops and laptops last 10 years, it's not even all that hard. Which is funny to me, because the Apple people out here are usually the environmentally conscious people.... meanwhile my PCs generate much less ewaste.

again i still see many people with 10, 11 or even 12 year old imac's and macbook, eck i've seen a customer bring in his powerbook G4... the lifespan on any machine depends on the use you give/need from it...

 

[Sky-Knight]

again i still see many people with 10, 11 or even 12 year old imac's and macbook, eck i've seen a customer bring in his powerbook G4... the lifespan on any machine depends on the use you give/need from it...

And again, I addressed that. Older designs are essentially just regular PCs with parts that can be swapped and maintained. The current generation Macbook Pro has the RAM, SSD, and battery all soldered to the mainboard. Which means you aren't getting that kind of life out of current designs. Anything made after 2016 is garbage. No RAM and storage expansion sets a hard limit on machine life spans.

 

[overburnz]

And again, I addressed that. Older designs are essentially just regular PCs with parts that can be swapped and maintained. The current generation Macbook Pro has the RAM, SSD, and battery all soldered to the mainboard. Which means you aren't getting that kind of life out of current designs. Anything made after 2016 is garbage. No RAM and storage expansion sets a hard limit on machine life spans.

The battery isn’t soldered is glued to the top case and is swappable, original topcase and battery and you have some OEM batteries that you can purchase and swap by the original one, the ram and ssd I’ll give you that but if you don’t do anything like videoediting ou image and if you have 8 or 16 of ram and 512gb ssd why can’t it last 10 years also?!

 

[Sky-Knight]

The battery isn’t soldered is glued to the top case and is swappable, original topcase and battery and you have some OEM batteries that you can purchase and swap by the original one, the ram and ssd I’ll give you that but if you don’t do anything like videoediting ou image and if you have 8 or 16 of ram and 512gb ssd why can’t it last 10 years also?!

I suppose that's fair, it MIGHT make it, but no machine I've ever deployed has lasted that long without upgrading one or both of those capacities. My point is that you have to pay Apple's extortionate rates for a maxed out system now to do that, instead of paying pennies and a service call later for a cleanup mid life. The latter is vastly more cost efficient. Of course, Apple and cost efficient have never belonged in the same sentence so I suppose that's also fair.

 

[overburnz]

I suppose that's fair, it MIGHT make it, but no machine I've ever deployed has lasted that long without upgrading one or both of those capacities. My point is that you have to pay Apple's extortionate rates for a maxed out system now to do that, instead of paying pennies and a service call later for a cleanup mid life. The latter is vastly more cost efficient. Of course, Apple and cost efficient have never belonged in the same sentence so I suppose that's also fair.

No argue there lol

 

[Markverhyden]

All OEM's make machines like Apple's, soldered on RAM and SSD disposable. It's just Apple doesn't make as many different models. Personally I'm no fan of this appliance approach to computers. But not much we can do about it.

 

[phaZed]

@Sky-Knight, But there are some other points to consider.

The "fragmented marketplace" could be considered by some as "free market", you vote with your wallet.
"Android" and Google are not responsible for holding back your updates... carriers and handset makers are.

If you want "Google" to be responsible for the hardware, then go buy Google's own hardware, from Google:

These devices get the latest versions of Android directly from Google, usually within two weeks of the software's release—as long as you bought the device from the Google Store. Google-branded devices purchased outside the Google Store are not guaranteed to get updates on the same schedule, although Verizon has been issuing updates to its Pixel phones at the same time as Google.

This was a GREAT article that explains a good part of the situation..

ArsTechnica: With iPhone, Apple showed AT&T and Verizon who's boss (2017)

 

[Sky-Knight]

@phaZed screw that, the OS manufacturer is responsible to secure the device and patch it. Any other approach is demonstrably bone headed. Sure, that'll slow innovation a bit, but that's not a problem either. This every 2 years a new phone game needs to die in a fire. And $1000 smart phones? WTF?!? I can buy a well equipped desktop for that, or even a moderately equipped laptop and both simply do more.

All of the relative values in this entire reality are broken, but Microsoft, Linux, and all the OS vendors that came up in the 80s and build the present day have shown us exactly how the patch model should work. A phone is a computer, we need root access and patches, just like we do on everything else. Until then, all phones are useless, consumer garbage that have no place in our reality... except we're stuck using it... and trying to support it half heartedly with over priced under delivered SaaS everything.

 

[phaZed]

That's what I was trying to say.. Google *DID* patch it... The updates are being blocked by cell carriers and Handset makers. A Right-to-repair bill would help this situation.

Windows phone operated like Apple, in the sense that updates were pushed by Microsoft, not the carriers.. but the carriers blocked those updates, too.

Turns out, unless you have unlimited money to bribe a carrier with, well.. I won't go there.

 

[Sky-Knight]

@phaZed, the carriers don't control was moves over the data lines, especially if you're doing it over wifi on a non-cellular connection.

It's still Google's fault, for giving the carriers the ability to control root, and not giving it to the owners of the actual device. Owning a Google or Apple mobile device is like leasing something that you had to pay for. Right to repair yes... but that's not quite far enough, owning means owning, that means full control and responsibility. If you don't have root, you don't own it.

And I'm not talking about the ability to jail break the thing, I'm talking about root access provided out of the box. It's time we put our foot down on that one as a people. But the "people" don't care.

 

[timeshifter]

Someone recommended an app called MacTracker, which is a good reference. You can look up any model Mac and see what OS it came with and what the latest is also. It’s an app on the Mac, and I just checked and it looks like it’s an iOS app too.

 

[overburnz]

Someone recommended an app called MacTracker, which is a good reference. You can look up any model Mac and see what OS it came with and what the latest is also. It’s an app on the Mac, and I just checked and it looks like it’s an iOS app too.

Don’t relly too much on it, it’s not 100% accurate with the hardware upgrades in some models :/

 

[carmen617]

the ram and ssd I’ll give you that but if you don’t do anything like videoediting ou image and if you have 8 or 16 of ram and 512gb ssd why can’t it last 10 years also?!

Because what Apple charges for 16GB of RAM and a 512 SSD is pure highway robbery, and very few end users have the foresight and the financing to buy the current top of the line models. Apple typically supports (with OS upgrades) their computer products for 6-7 years. How much did 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD cost 6-7 years ago? Would you have paid for that then? Who knows what will be standard amounts of RAM and storage in 6-7 years?

By selling a very limited number of configurations, and making those products impossible to upgrade, Apple is ensuring these products will reach EOL well before Apple stops supporting them with OS upgrades. But those unsustainable business decisions might (I hope) bite Apple in the ass sooner rather than later.

 

[timeshifter]

Another Apple thread. Another religious war.

I'm shocked.

 

[carmen617]

Another Apple thread. Another religious war.

I'm shocked.

It's not a religious war for me - I support all products, and refuse to tell my clients which direction to go. I actually make a lot more money supporting Apple these days, as Windows 10 has cleaned up their act, and Apple people are always shocked and unprepared whenever anything goes wrong. Apple does a really good job of hiding the sausage making process, and their users generally have no idea of the first steps to take whenever things go south.

I don't think Apple's MacOS EOL decisions are bad. I tell my clients, if they are unable to upgrade their current hardware to the latest MacOS, then they should budget to replace it in the next 2-3 years, once Apple stops issuing security updates for their OS. I send out a well read monthly newsletter and that's the type of article I write, and I have clients call me and let me know it's time to upgrade, and ask me for help choosing a new system and then migrating from their old. It's all good business - thank goodness things reach EOL!

However, I do think it's rather wasteful of Apple to make $1500 - $2500 systems that should have an 8 year or so life, but can't be upgraded or repaired by a normal tech, and I would certainly never buy one for myself. Would you?

 

[overburnz]

Another Apple thread. Another religious war.

I'm shocked.

I believe that there are two types of person: the haters and the ones that see things as they are, and the haters just have to find things to talkdown on a product (being Apple or others) and also feel that they’re products are somewhat overpriced but i have an iPhone, Apple TV and a MacBook Pro and all of them work perfectly and I’m happy with them, as should others be with they’re product of choise but i (being an Apple fan) am also able to see the good and the bad in Apple as in other brands.... no system/brand/product is 100% without flaws or issues is just a case of what suits your needs

 

[overburnz]

And in today’s reality who keeps a computer for more than 3/4 years if they work in some area that requires highend hardware?
Who keeps a smartphone for more than 2 years when every year we’re bombarded with 3 top of the line models of every brand (Samsung, Apple, Huawei, Xiaomi etc) and inumerous mid range and low end... I know people that trade their smartphones every year just to have the latest features (that in reality are just a milisecond faster than the old one)? In computers being laptop ou desktop we see it changing constantly and after 2/3 years the motherboard doesn’t support the latest ram modules, cpu or even graphics card, so we have to upgrade and sometimes is cheaper to buy a new one because today everything is disposable not just Apple but all brands! It’s just a matter of how deep your pockets are and how bad you want this or that....

 

[Markverhyden]

Apple's not changed since the beginning. One would think their near death experience around the turn of the century would have given them the motivation to think and act differently. But it didn't. They've had this, in my opinion, crappy attitude about parts and repairs since the beginning. Customer's inconveniences are not a problem, at least in Apple's eyes. Especially in the B2B ecosystem, which is still very profitable.

As far as prices? You can't make it up in volume. So competing on pricing is a very difficult proposition. I'd be thrilled to have a smaller fraction of the market with those profit margins. It's called working smarter, not harder.

 

[sapphirescales]

I believe that there are two types of person: the haters and the ones that see things as they are, and the haters just have to find things to talkdown on a product (being Apple or others) and also feel that they’re products are somewhat overpriced but i have an iPhone, Apple TV and a MacBook Pro and all of them work perfectly and I’m happy with them, as should others be with they’re product of choise but i (being an Apple fan) am also able to see the good and the bad in Apple as in other brands.... no system/brand/product is 100% without flaws or issues is just a case of what suits your needs

Buying a Mac these days is like spending $100,000 on a car with tires that can't be replaced without replacing the entire frame of the car and rebuilding it in another frame. Oh, and $25,000 oil changes that only the car dealership can do. It's lunacy. People that dislike Apple aren't "haters." They're just not insane.