[REQUEST] How to protect yourself with large purchase

[fencepost]

Something like this:

You've requested a quote for some specific items, may I ask how you came up with that list? In my/our experience, the particular items you've chosen don't always work well together or the configuration you've requested raises some red flags that make me very concerned that you have a very high risk of losing data. If you had expert advice or specific reasons for these choices then we can meet your requests, but part of the service we offer is advice on configuration and equipment choices that work well together. If you were simply advised that you need products that meet X, Y and Z specifications and chose these from a list of 'best products' then we can likely configure something that will work better for you and may even cost less.
We always want to make sure that the equipment and configurations we provide are the best possible because failures reflect badly on us even if they're not caused by any errors on our part - and problems that you encounter in systems we provide may mean that we don't get the opportunity to sell you additional equipment in the future.​

 

[Markverhyden]

Pretty much need to quote them what they want. If it's feasible.

As far as which drive OEM? That's a tough one. Not like there is a lot of data for 12 tb drives from places like backblaze. BB introduced them Q3 2017 and only have 20 12tb's but do have 1220 10tb's. No failures yet. But they are seagates. And you can see that some of the worst performers Seagates. Maybe they got a great deal on them! HGST seems to have the best stats at BB over time and do make a 12tb with similar specs. My preference is with them but if it's Seagate or WD partners then I'd probably go with WD.

 

[HCHTech]

Backing up is another story.

That's easy - you just get to the bottom of their quote and multiply it times two! Then put a little asterisk saying something like "Customer agrees to provide dedicated fibre connection between main location and backup location."

Kidding, of course, but it's probably not that far off from the right answer!

 

[Markverhyden]

That's easy - you just get to the bottom of their quote and multiply it times two! Then put a little asterisk saying something like "Customer agrees to provide dedicated fibre connection between main location and backup location."

Kidding, of course, but it's probably not that far off from the right answer!

I was involved, for a little while LOL!!!, in a big SAN project couple years. They started with me via the Apple store but it quickly escalated way beyond my experience level. Video production looking for something like 200TB using Xsan and Promise V-Trak. Backups were brought up and they were just like, we'll copy finished stuff to Thunderbolt disks and take them offsite. LOL!!!

 

[E Bell]

Anyone in the DFW area looking for some business? This is the latest communication received from the "potential" customer:

We are getting other options, so we can compare the bid. As soon as I have any updates, I will let you know.

 

[bdeustis]

No way in hell I'd take this deal unless it was paid via ACH....

And cleared into another account after hitting first ACH.

In a prior life: one of our Client Managers, Jeff, was put on (pressure) point to collection $40k in fees long overdue. Wires hit by about 10am. It hit and Jeff was rejoicing. Client boss discovered payment had been made and called his bank up to have the wire transfer rescinded. Next day transfer was gone. Lesson: sweep wires to alternate account -IMMEDIATELY

 

[Alexey]

I can't comprehend that kind of capacity and 12TB drives with only RAID5. They might as well just do RAID0, because with 12TB drives if they lose one there's a decent chance they'll lose a second during a rebuild process hammering all of them, and then the array is gone.

That's not actually correct. What you are saying is equivalent to the statement "if I write a 12TB data onto the drive, there is a decent chance I will lose the drive if I try to read it back".

 

[fencepost]

The problem with RAID5 (and 6) is that to rebuild from a failed drive, you don't have to just read intensively from one other drive - you have to read intensively from all of the other drives in the array to rebuild the information for the missing drive. In this case, it becomes a question of "Can I read a Petabyte of data with no single-bit errors?"

In addition there may be a factor of "Can I read all that data with no errors from a large array of drives from the same lot as the one that just failed?"

 

[Alexey]

Assuming no common mode failure, the read required for a rebuild is exactly one full drive from each live drive, for a total of one full usable array capacity. And you can read petabyte with no single bit errors, that's not a problem. One normally expects to fill the storage and then to be able to read it back, routinely and multiple times, otherwise the data storage would be pointless. Moreover, the concept of a single-bit error is not applicable to a block-based device; there are no single bits in a hard drive.

Common mode failure a-la 7200.12 will bring the entire disk pack down in less time than is needed for rebuild, so it does not matter which RAID level you use.

 

[Adept PC Repair]

Wow. If I won this bid it would be knuckle biting

 

[mstoveken]

Have they gotten back to you after "getting other options" yet? I feel like they are looking around for a sucker who is gullible enough to do the deal on terms alone and you looked like an easy mark with your uncomplicated website.

Edit: No offense about your website, its just that anytime you see PC Tuneup you think small time and all of the other assumptions that go along with that.

 

[E Bell]

@mstoveken - Yes, the mentioned they "decided to go a different way".

I've asked for additional information to see if they chose another vendor for their solution. Now that isn't out there I can fill you all in on additional details.

The customer (La Moderna out of Mexico) reached out to me requesting information regarding Synology's RC18015XS+. They just opened a plant in North Texas (Cleburne, TX). This unit was going to house their backups and needed to "offer 1 PB total capacity".

Mexican pasta maker La Moderna is opening up a $50 million production and manufacturing facility in Johnson County Tuesday.

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott, Mexico Secretary of Foreign Affairs, Luis Videgaray, and officials with La Moderna attended the grand opening ceremony Tuesday.

The 150,000-square-foot factory took three years to build and is being touted as one of the most technologically advanced factories in the Western Hemisphere. It's the first American property for the pasta maker.

"This is the most modern plant we have. We have six plants in Mexico and the new one is this," said Carlos Monroy, director of production and administration for La Moderna.

The solution I presented was the RS18017xs+"

2.RS18017xs+ is a newer solution that has a faster processor, 2 x 10GbE LAN ports and 4 1 GbE Lan Ports. You are not limited to 10 TB hard drives and could go with the 12 TB drives to limit the number of expansion bays. This unit is designed to work as a standalone (no need to purchase the second unit). With that in mind there would be no built-in high-availability; however, another RS1801xs+ solution could be purchased for redundancy. The RS18017xs+ will need to be used in conjunction with the RX2417sas to reach the 1 PB storage solution you are looking for.

Let me know which solution (1 or 2) you are interested in and I will work on getting the numbers together for you.

With both solutions you are limited to a maximum single volume size of 200 TB. There is an application available called PetaSapce that combines the capacity of multiple volumes into a larger volume group. There are some limitations to this solution regarding services supported.

One of the benefits of working with a Synology Partner, other than making sure you are ordering the proper setup, is the possibility of writing up a Case Study for this solution similar to what can be seen on their website: https://www.synology.com/en-us/company/case_study.

As you all know...you win some, you lose some. Have a great weekend.

 

[mstoveken]

Wow, this sounds like it could have been really nice for you had the deal gone through. From your description it still sounded like a possible scam. It's hard to tell a legitimate business opportunity from a scam/waste of time these days. I hope you don't kick yourself too hard for missing out on this. I'm wondering if they went with another provider and used your quote as a base or used a completely different vendor instead of Synology altogether. I'm sure you would have pursued them a bit harder if you had been more sure it wasn't some type of scam. Did you ever talk to them on the phone?

 

[E Bell]

Yes, it could have. You are corrected about telling the legitimate from the scams.

One of the benefits of deal registration is Synology "protects" their partners from others. With that being said, it doesn't protect you from a reseller that does't register the deal nor protect you from other online stores (Amazon, Newegg, etc.). So, I am interested in hearing whether they went with another vendor as well or purchased from Amazon...as I knew he was shopping prices. Another benefit is special pricing to help you match or beat those online prices.

Regarding pricing, not only was the Synology devices a concern, but the price on the hard drives. With the number of hard drives in play even a dollar difference added up.

I did spend a bit of time researching a solution, but that is all part of the game and would have to admit I've done the same. Contact Vendor A for solution and shop their specs for the cheapest. This is where the relationship with the vendor hopefully pans out. Again part of the game.

 

[E Bell]

Again, I want to thank you all for the comments, concerns, complaints, criticisms, complements and compliments regarding this post.