Help me choose a Dell Windows server for my training lab.

Choppie

Choppie

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Boca Raton, FL USA
My goal is to break away from the home user and move into servicing in the small business environment, (small office with maybe 5 to 15 users)

1) I guess the first place to start is my budget.
I would like to keep it around $2,500, (for the server/OS only, I already have some nice cisco business class switches). If it takes more to get what I need, then so be it.

2) Based on what's out there now, and in service, and where things are headed, what is the best Windows Server version I should have to practice on?

3) What I would like is to buy the whole thing, server, os installed, COA sticker on box and install media included so I can (blow it up/nuke&pave) until the cows come home.

a) Should I buy a dell box on ebay and somehow get the os another way via MS Subscription, which is more money?

b) Should I look for the whole thing complete? I have seen them on there but the listings state activated or no COA or what ever....

4) At some point I would want to use this as my real business office server, legally, and not have to worry about the stupid key giving me trouble.

5) What I was looking at on ebay: (I do have a nice rack to put it in)

Dell PowerEdge R710 2U, 6X HDs

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerE...997754?pt=COMP_EN_Servers&hash=item2ec71c047a

OR

I like to have fun too....so was looking at this as well (for a nice looking novelty in my rack)

Dell Google PowerEdge R710

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Google...108948?pt=COMP_EN_Servers&hash=item27cd2e9e14



(have no idea what config. to get, but I do know I would like SAS or SATA drives to keep the cost down when upgrading to larger drives, and this is only for training...for now.) I do not need 15k rpm scsi drives……. (please advise me on these)

6) Is this over-kill, or under-kill, (would like it to last me a while.)

I have many more questions but I'll stop here and let you guys guide me, and I'm sure it will lead me to more questions later, more relevant ones...

Thanks.

...C
 
Well...looking at the 2 of them, I'm sure you realize that the first one is the better purchase. Because it comes with lots of RAM, lots of hard drives (300 gig 15k SAS hot swap), redundant power supplies, a quad port NIC.

I don't see rails for it...that may or may not be important for ya.

Yeah the Google Appliance is fun to look at...for a minute. Once it's in a rack, you only see the yellow front. And I don't see any drives, or much else. It's rather incomplete. Much less RAM.

The top one is a decent purchase. Would make for a great learning lab. Getting replacement drives (like from serversupply.com) won't be that expensive. Hot swap is good. You can learn about replacing drives (hot), rebuilding RAID volumes, expanding RAID volumes, reconfiguring.

Would make a great virtual host so you can learn ESXi and Hyper-V.

Probably came with iDRAC of some flavor..so you can learn how to remote access the hardware (outside of the OS) to manage it.

I highly encourage purchasing Action Pack. Anyone doing IT for a living should get that subscription. You get to work with pretty much all of Microsofts products that pertains to businesses...including about all of their server suites. It's the materials for your lab, for you to work with and learn, install, play with, mess up, fix, reinstall, reinstall, learn through repetition.

Is the above box a little overkill? Yeah...a bit. But heck it's stuffed to the gills. But if you're being budget aware, you could pickup a decent mid-ranged model with a few less HDDs in there, for probably under a G. I do highly recommending getting SAS drives and a higher end RAID controller..stick with a good model server like this one. You could just probably save a little money if you got one with a little less RAM.
 
Awesome reply!

Thanks for a great reply...you just took out about 15 of my questions I had in my keyboard buffer...haha

I was reading a thread you were chatting in with another guy, something about his wife sez he's obsessed with his dell servers....haha. Basically he had the same question but was going round and round and round with this and that. Kinda like coming at you with boiling peanut oil to extract your secrets...:)

I will try to be less painful;

Got it about the Google server....makes sense.

And nice to hear about lowering my budget...so lets say I can go $1,500 max, and put the rest towards a MS subscription.

So to cut to the chase;

1) What is the best MS subscription for my case? (what price with install DVDs)

2) What is required of me in order for me to subscribe?

3) Can you drop me a few eBay links of what you would buy if you were me....would save me hours of what you can do in 15 min.....and I so appreciate your time...I promise, I will look at them, and make a choice and go with it....no boiling peanut oil for more information...:)

Side NOTE: I am taking some college classes, and was able to make two downloads of software of my choice for unlimited use, I downloaded MS Server 2008 Enterprise / Small Business server and also Adobe CS6. Both have keys for unlimited use for non commercial use. (I still want to do the MS Subscription for the other stuff...would love to learn SQL and some others...)

Thanks so much...

...C
 
Here's a good dealio....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerE...575364?pt=COMP_EN_Servers&hash=item2a2af8cec4

Dunno what your location is, shipping would certainly factor in.

Also scan for some 2950 III servers....they're about 5 years old by now, but hey for a learning box, can find one for well under a grand, even 700 bucks. Pretty much the model before the 710 family.

Warning..this model is LOUD..she's a screamer, so depending on the location of your server....

Example...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Powere...681821?pt=COMP_EN_Servers&hash=item43b9e6399d

In my opinion, a 2U model would be best for a learning box. Primary reason..allow you to configure at least 6 HDDs in varous RAID configs...and you can get some budget friendly hot swap 3.5" drive models.
 
Awesome,,,,,I'm on it. I see that's a starting bid but only 8 hours left. I have it on my watch list and will maybe make that guy an offer if it runs out. I will also look at those specs, and look for one like it maybe for a buy now... My rack is a bitch to roll around so some rails would help....or I can just buy a set so its not a deal breaker...

Will get it down to a few choices, and post links for stamp of approval...then go for it...

Thanks so much....

...C
 
You should also really think about looking into VM's. Small businesses may not get into that but it would make much more efficient use of your hardware for training/testing/validation purposes. If you have a machine with at least 32GB of RAM you could setup VMWare's ESXi.

A real server has it's RAID configs handled by the RAID controller so there is no OS involved so the setup is the same no matter what the OS is. The only time when an OS gets involved is when it's one of those "fake" RAID's like the Intel Matrix.

ESXi has a very low overhead. You would be able to store a whole bunch of images, server and desktop, and spin them up as needed for testing/validation purposes. A Microsoft Technet Pro subscription will give access to a whole host of OS's and apps including enterprise level. You also get access to M$'s elearning materials also.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
With rails, not too far from ya
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-POWERE...427045?pt=COMP_EN_Servers&hash=item19da67efa5

Only a pair of drives, but you can pickup additional drives to slam in there pretty cheap, at your leisure.

Example....73 gig drives, 10k ...45 bucks. 15k...55 bucks.
http://serversupply.com/MFGR/DELL/HARD DRIVES/SAS-3GBITS/

Or if those are 6gig drives....about twice as much...but still not bad.
You'd want to check the HDD part numbers....
Click to expand...

Crazy, I just put that top one on my watch list before you posted...looks good. also found this one. not TOO much more but has 6 x 1TB DRIVES and its a buy now price and the guy has 10 in stock....I'm not worried about shipping price...all in the same ball park and its really not that much.

One of these two....gonna pull out my card this weekend and make a choice.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

I think this is the one....my finger is starting to do that twitching thing over the enter key.....:)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-POWERE...427045?pt=COMP_EN_Servers&hash=item19da67efa5



Now one last choice..this is back up there by my original price range but it has everything....COA....install media...and windows server 2008

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-POWERE...805731?pt=COMP_EN_Servers&hash=item4ac1c9c4e3


...C
 
Thought you wanted to keep it under 1500.

SATA drives in those....aka desktop drives. Granted...you're just using this for a "lab" to learn on..so you're not concerned about performance. But if I'm paying over a grand (not to mention 2 grand) for a server, I sure as hell don't want cheesy SATA drives in there.

If you want to learn about servers...stay with server hardware. Once you experience what 15k SAS drives are like, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Even 10k SAS drives.

But 72 hundge SATA slugs...nah, pass.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Thought you wanted to keep it under 1500.

SATA drives in those....aka desktop drives. Granted...you're just using this for a "lab" to learn on..so you're not concerned about performance. But if I'm paying over a grand (not to mention 2 grand) for a server, I sure as hell don't want cheesy SATA drives in there.

If you want to learn about servers...stay with server hardware. Once you experience what 15k SAS drives are like, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Even 10k SAS drives.

But 72 hundge SATA slugs...nah, pass.
Click to expand...

You know what, that first choice you picked for me...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-POWERE...427045?pt=COMP_EN_Servers&hash=item19da67efa5

I think I'm gonna go for it this weekend. I just called the guy and he can set me up with a few more drives, maybe 4 x 164G and that will be absolutely perfect.

On the other one... I saw those 6 x 1TB drives and my stupid brain started drifting....@$#%.....^#%$....boy oh boy....!@$#%...could I fill those up with all the music I have laying around on about 30 different drives here and there...

Ok, I'm sold on that one for around 1,500...

Do these servers come with the drive caddys or are the drives sold already in a caddy....

Reason I'm asking is, where I work, we install kaleidescape server systems for high end home theaters. If a drive goes bad, it reports back to the main servers at kaleidescape, and a replacement 1TB drive can be over 300 bucks, and its nothing more than a Seagate consumer grade sata hdd...but it has to be in THEIR drive caddy...
 
Choppie said:
Do these servers come with the drive caddys or are the drives sold already in a caddy....
Click to expand...

The hot swap drives are typically purchased already in the caddy. The server just has a big gaping drive bay which is hungry for drives to be slammed in there. Comes from the factory with plastic "filler caddys" in there just to make it look full. When you purchase from ebay, you may get a server with the bays totally empty, not even the plastic fillers.
 
You can buy Dell and HP caddies all day on Amazon for about $10 to $15. Just make sure you get the right part number. Keep in mind these are aftermarket, usually Chinese, so, once in a while, you may get one that doesn't fit without a fight, or maybe the LEDs don't work.
 
You guys are awesome..

I just started looking for a server yesterday, and I suck at searching ebay.

I'm about to buy one of these servers :)

Esxi ftw

thanks guys!
 
angry_geek said:
Keep in mind these are aftermarket, ...so, once in a while, you may get one that doesn't fit without a fight, .
Click to expand...

That's why I hired an assistant that knows how to use a sledgehammer!
:D

14az9qu.jpg
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
The hot swap drives are typically purchased already in the caddy. The server just has a big gaping drive bay which is hungry for drives to be slammed in there. Comes from the factory with plastic "filler caddys" in there just to make it look full. When you purchase from ebay, you may get a server with the bays totally empty, not even the plastic fillers.
Click to expand...

Ok,

Finally did it, I should have them Monday or Tuesday...

Just over 600 each

2 each

DELL POWEREDGE 2950
2 x QUAD CORE E5335 2.0GHz
16GB RAM
8 x 146GB 10K SAS
2U SERVER w/RAILS"
MANUFACTURE- DELL
PROCESSORS- 2 x INTEL XEON QUAD CORE E5335 2.0GHz
HARD DRIVE- 8 x 146GB 10K SAS 2.5" HOT PLUG HDD
MEMORY- 16GB MEMORY
RAID- PERC 6i SAS Controller with Battery Backed Cache
CONTROLLER- DELL REMOTE ACESS CARD (DRAC5)
NETWORKING- Dual embedded Broadcom NetXtreme II 5708 Gigabit7 Ethernet NIC
OPTICAL DRIVE- DVD
POWER SUPPLY- DUAL REDUNDANT POWER SUPPLY INCLUDED
RAILS : With Rails/Face Plate
CONDITION- REFURBISHED
WARRANTY- 30 DAYS DOA

It will take some time setting them up in my rack, and looking for a reasonably priced TrippLite with 4 sockets.

The reason I went for the cheaper one is of course the price, and so I can get two. I want to practice playing with having a copy of the AD on DC2 and promote one and demote the other and vice virsa...should one get trashed or go down. Not sure if anyone has seen the TrainSignal globomantics.com training videos for the Server 2008, but I was able to get them and they go through building two servers, DC1 and DC2 for backup. And also importing user accounts using an excell file.

Anything I should know about loading these up while being on the network and or allowing them to connect to the internet.

Yes, I know not to use a .com domain, and make it local.....

Hope I did good....waiting for full report..

...C
 
Sounds like you got a good deal. All this discussion of servers has started me looking again. I built my own 3 years ago. But did not get a real RAID card so I am limited, such as I cannot setup a proper ESXi with RAID'd drives. I found the following which looks very tempting. Waiting to hear back if they have a PERC installed in them.

Link

As far as setting up. A properly setup DNS is an absolute requirement for all of the services to work correctly. Make sure you have that down first then the rest will be much easier to deal with. You could cut corners by using SBS, which does it automatically, but that would be a mistake since M$ is discontinuing that product.
 
Sweet deal man!
Yeah they're older servers...but they're good. Only drawback..like I mentioned..they're screamers! Most 1U servers have "agents" you install into the OS which throttles down the fans once the OS boots up. These won't..they stay full bore.

But for learning, these will be great for you. Great lab for learning!

I recommend doing some bare metal installs of the OS on one....install Windows Server, learn how to install 03 and 08 and 12, learn how to run DCPROMO on them, learn how to install the server management agents, RAID controller utilities, stuff like that. And then wipe....and do it again. And then wipe..and do it again. While a server is running....yank a hot swap drive right out of there, using the RAID utility within the OS, see how it behaves as you slam another drive in there and it rebuilds. Learn how to do online RAID expansions. Learn how to do it in the BIOS too, not just in the OS.

Take the other one..skin it with ESXi....and then learn how to slice up the pie and install some guests. Install a server...keep it running, install another server..keep it running, join the domain of the first server. Install a desktop OS...join the domain. Play play play.

Go back to the first server....install ESXi on it too....manage them with V Center. Move a guest from one physical server to another. Learn how to do "P to V's"...importing an OS from a physical computer into a virtual guest.

Wipe one clean and skin it with Microsofts Hyper-V...repeat the same above steps on it.

Enjoy!
 
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