[TIP] Extended Manufacturer Warranty vs Squaretrade, Etc.

[Appletax]

Got a Lenovo Legion 5 Pro laptop with multiple issues. It's on its way to Houston for repairs.

Approx. 4 days to get to the repair depot, up to 7 business days to repair, and then maybe another 2-4 days to get it.

The Legion Ultimate support is not that special. Very much inferior to Apple's support. Spoke with someone with an odd voice at Lenovo. She started reading what my issues were while we were on the phone - did not prepare at all for our conversation. She wanted to remote into it even though I am dealing with multiple hardware issues. She called right back and got approval to skip the remoting in and just send it into the repair depot.

I am not excited about getting back my laptop. I suspect it won't be repaired just right or that I will receive a refurb that someone else owned and scratched up.

Had a mid-2014 MacBook Pro with malfunctioning Shift key. Apple overnighted me a box, I sent it in, and they sent it back repaired perfectly in super fast time. And, I got to chat with an American that spoke excellent English. They took very good care of me.

I have an extended 2-year warranty through Walmart/Allstate/Squaretrade that includes accidental damage.

My understanding is that Squaretrade does not repair anything. They might cut you a check to replace your device if you are lucky.

Do they pay the full original price?

The big question: should I have skipped the much cheaper Squaretrade warranty and ponied up for 2 years of Legion Ultimate support with accidental damage?

Perhaps I should have bought a gaming laptop from a more obscure company - Eluktronics, Sager, Clevo, Xotic PC, Maingear, Origin.

YUGE fan of superb customer service, which I have only ever gotten from Apple for electronics.

Would love to build a custom PC, but GPUs are too hard to get and way too expensive.

I was interested in Mac Mini + GeForce Now, but pings times are higher than recommended and the Mini doesn't have HDMI 2.1 for 4K120Hz.

 

[britechguy]

Third-party extended warranties are just a YUGE racket, and manufacturer extended warranties are not far behind. They're cash cows.

In the land of computers, the overall pattern is either very early failure (while the original warranty would most likely still be in force) or failure years out, when even an extended warranty is unlikely to still be in force.

Accidental damage coverage is a different issue, and I guess if you consider yourself to be "accident prone" it could be worth it. For me, and most people I know who are either clients or friends/acquaintances, it would be a huge waste of money.

And this is not "just my opinion." Pretty much any consumer advocacy group you can name clearly states that extended warranties almost never get used and given how seldom they do that they are a very poor investment.

 

[cypress]

I always side prefer a client get a warranty directly from the manafucturer. Just had a client order an Dell Optiplex with the Dell Business 3 Year warranty next day on site. When I deployed half a dozen of those, half of them failed within the first 3 years with power supply issues and such and Dell came right out and fixed them and got them back up.

Had a client that I had purchased Square warranty for their HP laptop and they returned it for what was deemed a faulty video on the motherboard. When the client got it back the issue persisted. They are still working out the details to get a check cut as they decided it was best to just get another laptop.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

We do a ton of Lenovo.....but only their business grade models.
Some lesser models that were purchased with default "depot" warranty, typically it's within a business week in our experience of using it in the past few years. But we almost always (especially for our MSP clients)...quote and order Thinkpads and Thinkcenters with optional Lenovo 3yr premier support, and 5 yr on the servers. It's well worth it, Lenovos premier support is great. Part of our requirements for managed clients is they MUST keep their servers within vendor support. They send a tech onsite to your client to replace parts, whatever. Or just ship the part if you wish and you can replace it. Plenty of times we have the tech they'll send just come to our office to replace the part. We don't mind at all, costs us nothing, let them take apart a laptop to replace a mobo or screen.

Your Lenovo rep would have a spreadsheet they can send you on a regular basis (so you have updated models/prices) so you can order computers with the upgrade.

One of our guys who uses Dell for his clients...he does the same..always builds upgraded Dell support/warranties into his quotes/orders.

"accident protection"...nah we don't recommend those.

 

[nlinecomputers]

There’s a vast difference in service and quality between the retail side and the business grade side. Lenovo consumer retail Ideapad and legion series are not well built machines. Lenovo Thinkpads are some of best built laptops made and I always got an American tech on the phone when I have called in. You bought that system from Walmart that should tell you all you need to know about the quality of them.

 

[Porthos]

My understanding is that Squaretrade does not repair anything. They might cut you a check to replace your device if you are lucky.

Do they pay the full original price?

They just pay you what you paid for it, not including any shipping or tax.

Perhaps I should have bought a gaming laptop from a more obscure company - Eluktronics, Sager, Clevo, Xotic PC, Maingear, Origin.

If you can afford one of them.

 

[britechguy]

You bought that system from Walmart that should tell you all you need to know about the quality of them.

While I am not, repeat, not arguing that there is a distinct difference between consumer and business grade machines (in any maker's line), where you bought one (of the same make/model) should make no difference. The make/model does, though.

I don't know of a single manufacturer that makes a specific model number that isn't of "that model number's basic quality level" no matter who might be retailing it.

 

[nlinecomputers]

While I am not, repeat, not arguing that there is a distinct difference between consumer and business grade machines (in any maker's line), where you bought one (of the same make/model) should make no difference. The make/model does, though.

I don't know of a single manufacturer that makes a specific model number that isn't of "that model number's basic quality level" no matter who might be retailing it.

There you are completely wrong. It’s almost impossible to get Walmart to sell anything without they demand drastic cuts in price. The results are almost always cuts in the durability of the product. Worse is in order to meet Walmart’s low standards means that the margin is razor thin so these companies have to produce more product than Walmart will sell and that over production spills over into their competitor markets. Thus the same crap machines are sold at Best Buy, Staples, Amazon etc. if you are buying anything at staples or Target and you find out it is also sold at Walmart skip it for another more expensive item. It’s guaranteed junk be it a toaster, vacuum cleaner, or laptop. It’s how Walmart makes its margins.

 

[Appletax]

There’s a vast difference in service and quality between the retail side and the business grade side. Lenovo consumer retail Ideapad and legion series are not well built machines. Lenovo Thinkpads are some of best built laptops made and I always got an American tech on the phone when I have called in. You bought that system from Walmart that should tell you all you need to know about the quality of them.

Would love to own a Thinkpad X1 Extreme, but then I'm looking at $2,800 for something comparable to my $1,400 Legion 5 Pro.

Edit: the Fn key is where the Ctrl key should be lol.

That means I need to build a custom desktop because then I can get very good quality for a better price and much better performance.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Would love to own a Thinkpad X1 Extreme, but then I'm looking at $2,800 for something comparable to my $1,400 Legion 5 Pro.

Edit: the Fn key is where the Ctrl key should be lol.

That means I need to build a custom desktop because then I can get very good quality for a better price and much better performance.

You get what you pay for. Your complaints about poor quality and after sales service is what you lose going cheaper. And any desktop will be cheaper than a laptop because of the customized chassis that has to be created for a laptop vs standardized parts in a desktop.

 

[britechguy]

It’s almost impossible to get Walmart to sell anything without they demand drastic cuts in price.

Again, you are not addressing what I said. You are 100% correct in this, and there are many "Walmart Only" models of all sorts of products including computers, TVs, and more. The entire Gateway computer line that exists today is Walmart Only.

What I'm saying, and standing behind, is if there were, say, a Lenovo Brian1 model that is aimed at the business market, and you were to find it on the shelf in Walmart, Best Buy, Staples, or elsewhere (including online retailers) it is exactly the same make and model, with the exact same build quality. There could be a "lookalike" built cheaper, but it will not be a Brian1, it will be a Brian1WM or something like that.

Manufacturers care, very, very much, about their reputation and product cachet. They are not, ever, going to put out the same model number with wildly variant build quality. There may be a wide array of options for any model, but that model is that model.

And, in the case of Walmart, not every blessed thing it sells, particularly online, is the same as what is available in most of the brick and mortar locations.

 

[nlinecomputers]

Again, you are not addressing what I said. You are 100% correct in this, and there are many "Walmart Only" models of all sorts of products including computers, TVs, and more. The entire Gateway computer line that exists today is Walmart Only.

What I'm saying, and standing behind, is if there were, say, a Lenovo Brian1 model that is aimed at the business market, and you were to find it on the shelf in Walmart, Best Buy, Staples, or elsewhere (including online retailers) it is exactly the same make and model, with the exact same build quality. There could be a "lookalike" built cheaper, but it will not be a Brian1, it will be a Brian1WM or something like that.

Manufacturers care, very, very much, about their reputation and product cachet. They are not, ever, going to put out the same model number with wildly variant build quality. There may be a wide array of options for any model, but that model is that model.

And, in the case of Walmart, not every blessed thing it sells, particularly online, is the same as what is available in most of the brick and mortar locations.

Dude. How is this a contradiction to what I just said? If you find the same model in Best Buy that is sold at Walmart you should avoid it because it will be made to a lower standard. There’s a reason you can’t buy Thinkpads at Walmart.

 

[britechguy]

There’s a reason you can’t buy Thinkpads at Walmart.

Perhaps not, but you can find a lot of "non-consumer grade" stuff, on occasion, on Walmart.com.

My point is that the way you determine exactly what you're getting is to know the model number(s) you're looking for. If you find precisely that model number, regardless of where (and the seller is not misrepresenting that number) you have the same thing.

You actually can, on occasion, find some very good deals in places they'd never be expected to be found.

 

[Appletax]

You get what you pay for. Your complaints about poor quality and after sales service is what you lose going cheaper. And any desktop will be cheaper than a laptop because of the customized chassis that has to be created for a laptop vs standardized parts in a desktop.

For sure.

I am probably just gonna build myself a custom gaming PC. I built one in 2014 and it lasted me till 2021 and was still very fast. Just had to upgrade the GPU a few times to keep things strong for gaming.

Its specs: Core i7-4770K OC, EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3, Asus Formula mobo (overkill as it's made for water cooling), G.SKILL 32GB DDR3-2400MHz Trident X, SeaSonic Platinum 850 Watt PSU, Samsung 250GB 840 Pro SSD, Seagate 3TB HDD, lots of Noctua fans, Thermal Grizzly liquid metal, Cooler Master HAF Evo case.

Sold it for $1,350. Bought a gaming laptop with better everything but graphics. I don't take the laptop anywhere so it makes no sense to have one.

By building custom, I will have multi-year warranties by default. Like 12 years for the PSU (SeaSonic or EVGA), lifetime for the RAM (Corsair or G.SKILL), 3 years for the GPU (EVGA). And, it will last way longer than a laptop.

 

[Sky-Knight]

The warranties are expensive, 3 years + in duration? Take a peek at the price of it... I guarantee you that price is 100% the wholesale rate of replacement. The client is purchasing not one, but TWO machines and only taking delivery of one of them. Dell or whomever is expecting that most people won't need that 2nd rig and pocketing the difference.

So, if you're an individual that takes care of your stuff. The standard 1 year warranty is more than enough to handle any DOAs that show up. However, if you're a business and you want to control your budget over a fleet of 50 machines, the warranties start to look really good. Because you can simply bank on replacing the machines every 3-5 years and keep them all under warranty. You're never buying equipment out of band at that point, because things that fail are replaced "free" to you.

The warranty is a financial tool, like any other you have to do the cost benefit analysis on it.

Note, yes you do get better duration warranties out of the components, but you aren't saving anything using this. UNLESS you count your time as "free". So beware the hidden time sinks of your professional skills used on yourself, as well as the downtime involved when you're running your numbers. I'm not saying this is a bad idea, I always whitebox for myself too! But I know I'm in for it when the machine faults, and when it's new... they usually do on something. Once the shakedown period is over however, it's nice to have a machine just run for a decade plus. But that's because my skill is up to the task, and I consider that investment in myself worth while. But that's also why I don't generally sell white boxes anymore. People don't want to pay for my time in properly caring for them.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

What you will find at the "big chain stores" like Walmart or Best Buy, are...usually "unique builds specifically for them". The SKUs will usually be different than what you can purchase online direct from Dell/HP/Lenovo, etc.

Similar with other products at other big box chain stores....like kitchen appliances, or lawn mowers/tractors, or power equipment. The models available at Lowes/Home Depot are cheaper than if you go to better quality stores, cheaper in price, and cheaper in build quality. The John Deere Tractor you buy at Lowes...even if a bottom line "L" series....is crappier than an "L series" you'd buy (and pay a little more for) at some yard equipment stores. Same for things like Stihl chainsaws, Milwaukee power equipment, etc. Usually lesser quality warranty too.

 

[Appletax]

What you will find at the "big chain stores" like Walmart or Best Buy, are...usually "unique builds specifically for them". The SKUs will usually be different than what you can purchase online direct from Dell/HP/Lenovo, etc.

Similar with other products at other big box chain stores....like kitchen appliances, or lawn mowers/tractors, or power equipment. The models available at Lowes/Home Depot are cheaper than if you go to better quality stores, cheaper in price, and cheaper in build quality. The John Deere Tractor you buy at Lowes...even if a bottom line "L" series....is crappier than an "L series" you'd buy (and pay a little more for) at some yard equipment stores. Same for things like Stihl chainsaws, Milwaukee power equipment, etc. Usually lesser quality warranty too.

So annoying Hate it so much.

 

[britechguy]

So annoying Hate it so much.

Serious question: Why?

The usual situation is exactly as @YeOldeStonecat describes. Because of that, if it's something you wish to avoid, then you don't purchase via those outlets or you know you have more homework to do to make sure that, in a particular instance, it's not a "for this chain" model.

In our business, in particular, there is no shortage of manufacturer direct sales as well as outfits like Newegg and similar that are well-known, trusted, and that don't sell "for this chain" models. By using those, the entire issue is easily avoided.

I have nothing against choice, and for some the "cheap consumer grade" is just fine, and will last for years under its conditions of use. Like I've said in other contexts, having something that significantly exceeds "what you need" is just purchasing a dead asset.

 

[Appletax]

Serious question: Why?

The usual situation is exactly as @YeOldeStonecat describes. Because of that, if it's something you wish to avoid, then you don't purchase via those outlets or you know you have more homework to do to make sure that, in a particular instance, it's not a "for this chain" model.

In our business, in particular, there is no shortage of manufacturer direct sales as well as outfits like Newegg and similar that are well-known, trusted, and that don't sell "for this chain" models. By using those, the entire issue is easily avoided.

I have nothing against choice, and for some the "cheap consumer grade" is just fine, and will last for years under its conditions of use. Like I've said in other contexts, having something that significantly exceeds "what you need" is just purchasing a dead asset.

It bothers me that the $1,400 Lenovo Legion 5 Pro with RTX 3070 I got from Walmart may be built inferior to one purchased direct from Lenovo.

How would I know if it's inferior? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

Same goes with Black Friday electronics like TVs. Are they all built inferior? Or just some? There's no way to know.

Sick of inferior crap!

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Would love to own a Thinkpad X1 Extreme, but then I'm looking at $2,800 for something comparable to my $1,400 Legion 5 Pro.

Psssst....wanna know a secret?

Discounted & Clearance Lenovo Laptops | Outlet

Your daily destination for exclusive offers, overstocks and closeouts. Discounts on laptops, desktops, tablets and more. Get it before it is gone!

www.lenovo.com

Takes a while to view what's available....a little clunky to learn how to sort and narrow down the results filter to see what you want to.
But for the past....over 20 years, I've purchased a few laptops myself through here, as well as had a few "budget" clients use this link to purchase their own laptops. I recommend the models, and specs...and send them this link. I'd rather a client purchase some factory refurb Thinkpad T/X/P or even L models.....versus, Best Buy/Walmart 1 year grade crap. <==that I will not support.

My current Carbon X1 laptop, about 5 years old now, I paid around...oh, I think $860 for it, and it was MSRP new at around $1,750.00
You can get "still new in the box" computers, as well as "factory refurbished". And that $860.00 got me a laptop far superior to anything that could be bought from Worst Buy or WallyWorld.

Their stock changes nearly every day, so skim the pages every other day or so if you're looking for something.

Looking right now,
P15s Gen2, for $710, i5, 8 gigs, 256 M.2, Win10 Pro
X1 Carbon Gen8, $775, i5, 8 gigs, 256 M.2, Win10Pro and a Gen9 for $815
T480S, same specs, $775
X1 Carbon 7th gen, i7, 16 gigs, 512 M.2, Win10Pro, $935

I see an X1 Extreme Gen3, i7, 32 gigs, 512 M.2, Win10Pro, GeForce GTX1650...$1,445. So....just 45 bucks more than your Legion laptop...but...it's an "X1 Extreme"...the best..of the best...of the best....most coveted laptop, of all time!