cut my losses or stick to my guns ?

[Big Jim]

I'll try to be as concise as possible

Took a job a few weeks ago in a café linking up 2 POS. The guy asked for after shop hours which suited me, arranged a callout on a specific day, rang him around 5pm that day to check he was at the café like we agreed and he cancelled as he was still on his way back from London.
I called back few days later and rescheduled for between 3 and 3:30pm on a Friday, I was running late due to another job and didn't call him until 5 to say I was 10 - 15 minutes away.
As soon as I walked in he said "what happened to 3 oclock" I jut said it has been a knightmare of a day and we proceeded.
I was trying to get this additional POS he was introducing to the café to work for 3 hours before I gave up and recommended he call the manufacturer to find out how to "master reset" it on Monday in the mean time I would order some network cable and call him when it arrived to arrange to go back, he claims that I said I would call back on Monday evening.
I called him on the Thursday when the cable arrived and he said he had got someone else in to do the job now as I hadn't called him when I said I would. I explained I would just invoice him for my time, he said something along the lines of "send me the invoice and if I agree with it I'll pay it"
I sent him an invoice for 2.5 hours labour and NO cable. explained 3 days payments terms.
surprise surprise 3 days later no payment.
So I called him today and he acts all surprised to hear from me and then proceeds to tell me how he doesn't agree with the invoice and would like me "to do something about it" I have already discounted it by £25 + no charge for the cable I ordered specifically for him
conversation goes back and forth for about 10 minutes neither of us wanting to back down, he thinks a 50% reduction in the invoice is a reasonable amount.
guy seems a bit weird to be honest
is making a big deal out of me running late and not calling him back on the Monday, and has apparently took offence at me double checking that he was going to call the POS manufacturer on Monday, he said something like "I thought it was weird that you had to double check, I am an adult I don't need telling what to do" he also said I was insulting him because after telling him multiple times that I was unable to call him at 3:30 and called I'm at the earliest convenience he still pushed the point I said "I wish I lived in your world where everything was so simple"

He said he wasn't aware of my hourly rate and was surprised by it as we didn't discuss it (which we didn't) however I checked with my Tech who took the initial call and he says he definitely did discuss the hourly rate with him.


anyway, I honestly get the vibe this guy is playing silly games, part of me wants to just reduce te invoice and get paid and get rid, but part of me doesn't want to back down to this a$$hole.

what would you do ?

 

[phaZed]

Sounds like the common con-artist type of person. I have met many of these and can spot 'em a mile away.

Try to collect. Stick to your guns. A reduced price is what he is after. Never do work for him again.

 

[Markverhyden]

While I usually agree to stick to my guns in this case I'd not try too hard.

Look at it from the customer's point of view, right or wrong. And I'm not one that believes that the customer is always right, just that they are the customer. Nothing personal but there are several "performance" related issues, from the customer's perspective, that you mentioned that could have been handled better.

1. For the second appointment you did not contact him until after the window. I, for one, will know that I will be late for an appointment at least an hour before the appointment, if not more. Unless there is something extraordinary like an accident, etc. A phone call, text message, email, etc needs to happen. If I agree to a window I will make that window. Personally I'll always give at least a one hour window.

2. The POS equipment and installation. Personally I'll always request specific information such as make and models. That way I can research it ahead of time. This is especially true if it's used, which sounds like the case here. If it's not new, in the box they always get a disclaimer that usually results in unforeseen delays.

3. The onsite work. When I arrive at a new site, that has not been surveyed in advance, I always perform a quick site survey. Usually takes less than 30 minutes. The customer is advised of this and I always lay out the unknowns. Given that network cabling was needed I would have never spent 3 hours trying to get the POS working. Maybe an hour tops. After all another trip is needed anyways.

4. Customer responsibilities. I learned a long time ago that telling a customer they need to do something without supervision is a waste of time. I take pseudo ownership. In this case I'd have told the customer that I'd contact the OEM to discuss resetting the POS . Customers tend to feel they have been abandoned they have to make technical calls.

5. Rates. If I'm responsible for the payments and receipts I always review the rates when I arrive onsite. Also tell them what the meter is reading when I leave after each trip. If it's a messy situation I'll even do that mid-stream.

 

[Big Jim]

While I usually agree to stick to my guns in this case I'd not try too hard.

Look at it from the customer's point of view, right or wrong. And I'm not one that believes that the customer is always right, just that they are the customer. Nothing personal but there are several "performance" related issues, from the customer's perspective, that you mentioned that could have been handled better.

1. For the second appointment you did not contact him until after the window. I, for one, will know that I will be late for an appointment at least an hour before the appointment, if not more. Unless there is something extraordinary like an accident, etc. A phone call, text message, email, etc needs to happen. If I agree to a window I will make that window. Personally I'll always give at least a one hour window.

2. The POS equipment and installation. Personally I'll always request specific information such as make and models. That way I can research it ahead of time. This is especially true if it's used, which sounds like the case here. If it's not new, in the box they always get a disclaimer that usually results in unforeseen delays.

3. The onsite work. When I arrive at a new site, that has not been surveyed in advance, I always perform a quick site survey. Usually takes less than 30 minutes. The customer is advised of this and I always lay out the unknowns. Given that network cabling was needed I would have never spent 3 hours trying to get the POS working. Maybe an hour tops. After all another trip is needed anyways.

4. Customer responsibilities. I learned a long time ago that telling a customer they need to do something without supervision is a waste of time. I take pseudo ownership. In this case I'd have told the customer that I'd contact the OEM to discuss resetting the POS . Customers tend to feel they have been abandoned they have to make technical calls.

5. Rates. If I'm responsible for the payments and receipts I always review the rates when I arrive onsite. Also tell them what the meter is reading when I leave after each trip. If it's a messy situation I'll even do that mid-stream.

very helpful and constructive post, I am a guy that at times that will always defend my position and there is nothing in your post that I can disagree with or try to defend to be honest.

I think my shortcomings are a lack of experience, I have never worked for anyone else doing computer repairs so occasionally run into a scenario where I have no prior knowledge to call upon on how to handle a particular situation.

The only reason I didn't ask for POS information up front was because I honestly thought I would show up weigh up the job have a quick look at the POS and software and leave. however I needed to look at the POS and the way it operated to know what I was getting in to and the software was so easy to use I gave it a go whilst I was there, I had it 99% working except for some unknown reason the table configuration wouldn't copy from one to another (POS software crashed every time we attempted it) as I kept digging I kept finding settings that could have quite likely affected it so I kept retrying to copy the setting and in the end once all options I could find were exhausted I gave up knowing that I would have to return to run the network cable.

 

[kwest]

You weren't able to resolve it. No charge because you didn't know how to complete the job.

I had a pos job that ended up taking 4 hours. Only charged two because I ended up conferencing the internet provider and pos supplier to figure out why it wouldn't work.

You didn't see it through so no charge.

 

[lan101]

I'd just take the 50 percent reduced rate in this case and then just block or ignore any further contact once payment is completed. I'd rather get payed something then nothing. Even though it feels like you're conceding defeat, at least it wouldn't be a complete waste of time. I've always looked at it from this perspective. It's one thing to get beat out of my time, it's another if I've got my money invested in it and then they screw me.

That's why most of the time I have customers purchase their own equipment unless it's a few hundred or under.

I'd just take the money you can get and run away.

 

[kwest]

I'd just take the 50 percent reduced rate in this case and then just block or ignore any further contact once payment is completed. I'd rather get payed something then nothing. Even though it feels like you're conceding defeat, at least it wouldn't be a complete waste of time. I've always looked at it from this perspective. It's one thing to get beat out of my time, it's another if I've got my money invested in it and then they screw me.

That's why most of the time I have customers purchase their own equipment unless it's a few hundred or under.

I'd just take the money you can get and run away.

I have no problem going back in and taking back product that they didn't pay for. Only had to do that a couple times. One guy wouldn't let me back into his house to get his router so I logged into it from outside and changed all the settings.

 

[Tech Savvy]

I agree, 50% is great considering all the hiccups and miscommunication. That way you're paid for your time (even though it's not the full time, it's still something, which the client probably thinks you don't deserve) so meet him halfway and but eat the difference. It's not worth it.

Also, good post mark. Really hit the nail on the head and then some. I think there's a lot to be learned in what you said.

 

[glennd]

I've got to agree with Mark. Take his comments on board and learn from the experience. The customer feels you didn't solve his problem so he doesn't owe you anything. No goods have changed hands so he doesn't owe you anything there and you've got network cable on hand for the next job! It's seems to be wasted time both for you and the customer. Oh well. I gather you have been self employed for a relatively short time? So maybe you need to examine your time management?

 

[cypress]

I'll agree the others that say take the 50% price and never deal with this client. Something right now is better than nothing later.

 

[NerdyBuddy]

Mistakes were made on both ends. I agree with the 50% option.

 

[nlinecomputers]

I too agree with Mark's assessment. From the clients pov you look pretty bad.

 

[callthatgirl]

Been there, done that. My call like yours was in the first year of business, I went to fix a network wifi connection for a client and I tried for 3 hours and could not fix. It was a laid back office and I was starting to show my frustration, while I thought I was funny, I think I annoyed the others in the office. I had to call in a tech to help, they fixed it in 1.25 hours. I sent them a bill for my time and they refused to pay it because I didn't fix it. They never called me again and afterwards, I was happy about that. They were the "rush rush" types that had to have me in their office all the time, crazy office ladies in a panic. If I had sent an invoice for an hour, I think that would have been ok. Learned since this one, get credit card, sign the agreement and know how to bill your time if you don't fix it.

edited to add: These crazy ladies had been through 3 tech support companies that year. Never think you will be their new savior lol

 

[Markverhyden]

As far as payment I'd be very happy with 50% if that had been my situation.

 

[sapphirescales]

Sorry bud, but you screwed up big time. Honestly I'd apologize profusely about all the miscommunication and for wasting his valuable time, don't charge him a dime, and pray to God he doesn't write you a bad review. Hey, stuff happens. I get that. But when you screw up, YOU eat it. Not the customer.

 

[gikstar]

I think my shortcomings are a lack of experience, I have never worked for anyone else doing computer repairs so occasionally run into a scenario where I have no prior knowledge to call upon on how to handle a particular situation.

My first job in the IT field that I applied for, the owner was thinking of hiring someone right out of school (high school, trade tech, or college - he never said) but he decided to hire me. I was a 63 year old, retired professional from a different field of work (accounting) who knew how to get to work on time and hold on to a job until early retirement became available (27 years with one company).
Being on-time and communicating/keeping your clients updated is of the utmost importance, it sets up the whole scenario with your client. If you arrive late without prior notification, you already have a black mark against you. Sometimes promptness and communication will overshadow your lack of knowledge.
For those looking to hire an employee and you aren't considering the older retired person, think about considering them. I for one love working on computers, know how to be on-time as I usually arrived early to work and was most often, the last to leave the office.
I did leave that company when I found that my social security benefits equaled my take-home pay. I chose to quit working for an employer and just help my son in his IT company for free.

 

[DonS]

This is a rough situation and you do not look very good to the client at this point. If you are still taking opinions, I would just call it a day and not charge him at all. As was posted above.. Your goal at this point would be to avoid any negative reviews anywhere. If you do not bill him and let him know this, hopefully he will consider it a done deal and just move on with his day to day. If you charge him, even though it's his offer, he may still have it top of mind and feel like he can leave negative feedback now if he is one of those guys - since he paid you and you did a bad job

 

[glennd]

One of the billing tricks we sometimes use in unfamiliar situations is to charge for how long it would have taken us if we were fixing the problem for the second time, not how long it actually took the first time. That allows us to spend as long as we need in order to understand the problem and solve it properly, but we don't penalise the client because we happen never to have seen their issue before.

Yeah i do that. Starting out, there's lots of things you don't know. I'll be honest with the customer and say this is new and I'm going to do some research before I tackle it (dial up TN and Google). I have to decide if I'm equipped to do the job (knowledge, skills, tools), if I can learn quickly enough to do the job in a reasonable time, the impact of getting it wrong while I'm learning etc. All the time keeping track of the time I spend doing different aspects of the job.

At the end of the job I'll look back over my notes and make a determination of whether it would be considered reasonable for me to know this stuff, how long it would have taken me to do the job had I known what to do etc...

I could spend 6 hours on a job that I'll charge 2 hours for because, as a computer tech, I should have known that stuff and that's how long it should have taken.

I find most customers are reasonable so long as you keep them in the loop. Most, not all. Some just make it a lifetime goal to be unhappy. It's a judgement call, you get better at that over time...

 

[Anson]

Regardless if this is a scam or not, that is the way it appears. I say cut your losses. No one is worth playing musical chairs with.

 

[ohio_grad_06]

A couple of things I see.

1. If you were on the other job and realized you couldn't make it, you should have called him slightly before the 3 pm window and just said hey, I'm still onsite at another location, ran into some issues that we didn't expect, I can be there about 5:15 or we can reschedule. That would have at least made him feel more valuable and not made him feel like he was wasting time.

2. On the cable that you ordered, you should have had him pay for that up front. The good news is that is a common enough part that you'll find other uses, but if you'd had a specialty part you'd have been stuck with it.

3. I totally get you were messing with it and trying various settings, but if you are an hour in and not making headway, that is a good time to stop for a minute and tell him "Here's where I'm at, we can't get X to talk to Y, would you like me to proceed? I'm personally lucky I have a couple of folks I can call and ask for advice when I'm not sure about something. But messing with it for 3 hours, I get it, but it does seem like by an hour in, you should have had an idea where you were.

4. I do agree with checking the specific unit you were having issues with, looking up to see if there were drivers, firmware, tutorials etc that may go with that.

Sometimes, time management is my biggest downfall as well, so I understand we have bad days, but had you at least called and said "Sorry, I'm going to be late", the client probably would have felt a lot better about it. As it is, I think you left a bad taste in his mouth by not even calling until 5 and being late, and also by not fixing what was going on.

I would say that if you can get part of the bill, that's up to you, as I don't think they'll be calling you anyway, rather the guy that fixed it the first time out. But you did have time into it. I don't know that you are going to salvage that relationship, hopefully the guy does not leave you a negative review, especially if you are first starting out.