Client questioning my intent

[OceanValleyIT]

Hi All,

I have a client who keeps coming to me with viruses on his computer (The System Tool 2011 and it's variants). The removal of the problem is fairly straight forward and the registry scanned and repaired as required etc. The computer leaves my office in 100% working order. I have checked my records and he has been returning every 4 to 6 weeks with the same problems (different variations) and now he has made suggestions that maybe I infect the computer with viruses with delay mechanisms so I continue to receive business (although not exactly in these straightforward terms). I have seen the search topics he uses and it's no surprise he continues to be infected, judging by the sites he visits. The thing is he is a respected man in the community and I just don't want to blow his cover and tell him straight out that if he stops visiting the streaming video sites that he does, his problems will be greatly reduced.
Any ideas on how to approach this.
FYI. His anti virus etc is all up to date

 

[Vicenarian]

I say, show him the evidence. It's not your fault he keeps getting these viruses.

 

[Ccomp5950]

"I can give you antibiotics to cure your venereal diseases, but I can't stop you from going down to the whore house every Saturday and banging 'Drippy Donna'."

 

[Xander]

I say, show him the evidence. It's not your fault he keeps getting these viruses.

Bingo. Pull up IEHV right in front of him and say,
"On this date, at this time, your computer was visiting this site. The virus has a time stamp of one minute after this point. Are you suggesting that I broke into your house and browsed to AsianClownPorn.com?"

Oh, and use IEHV's report feature to print him out a copy and highlight it for him. Don't shame him, per se, but don't back down from it either.

 

[Paul Rodgers]

Whatever you do be discrete. Tell him that it isn't your business, but he needs to change his browsing habits to avoid these problems.

 

[gikstar]

Who are we to determine what a person should be looking at anyway.

If you act like it's no big thing and without judgment I suspect the worst is that he feels a little embarrassed when you show him where the infections are coming from.

If he says anything you can always suggest that someone else may be using his computer without his knowledge.

 

[venist]

Just take the time to show him what keeps causing his troubles. If you haven't recommended a security suite that's suitable for his computer please do so to at least give him some more in depth protection. I know its difficult to deal with customers that keep coming back with the same issue, but all you can do is be honest and strait forward with them.

I have a customer that comes in the shop at least once every 3 months like clock work. The man is a pharmacist at a very well respected hospital in the area. He also likes to stock 40GB of porn on his computer, which of course is his business. But with that being said, he's been informed of the dangers and told how to be careful. Luckily I haven't seen him just yet, though I'm expecting a return soon. But again, do everything the best way you know how. And make sure you document the issues thoroughly and educate before they leave the store.

 

[vdub12]

Thank about it this way. If he doesn't trust you then why does he keep coming back to you.

 

[Xander]

Who are we to determine what a person should be looking at anyway.

It's not our place. At all.

But nor is it the customer's place to imply that we're causing it. The customer needs to grow a pair and accept that his own bad habits are the cause of his problems.

 

[K007]

Just by telling him the exact time of the virus being activated on the computer, he will understand immediately what he was doing before that.

 

[Cybjun]

This usually isnt a problem for me because I cover myself with a simple policy if a system comes back within 30 days of a virus removal/tuneup with a re-infection the only service I offer is a full reload and save data & I will not put data back on the PC without first scanning it with an anti-virus.

And when people ask about a warranty against reinfection I tell them 30 minutes or 30 feet which ever comes first.

I also prep them with the most common causes of virus infections today; i.e. adult sites, streaming, downloads, p2p, facebook, online ads, & leaving the computer on unattended.

I had a lady that was like your client ever 3 months the pc would come back with a massive infection. after a full reload of windows (the %windir% was deleted somehow) I loaded up her anti-virus (kaspersky) sold her malwarebytes and setup hourly updates and twice a week quick scans. then set her up with an opendns account that was set to block malware sites and p2p and other phishing sites (I used the app for dynamic IP address)

She came in after 5 months with no malware or issues and purchased 2 new laptops for her kids and had them setup the same way. (paid extra labor the the detailed configuration)

 

[16k_zx81]

he has been returning every 4 to 6 weeks with the same problems

Have you discussed using imaging products to back up and restore?
Have you discussed a dedicated machine for web surfing?
Have you discussed a VM running Linux?
Have you discussed VM's at all?
Have you discussed various incremental restore options like Returnil and Commodo?
Have you set up sandboxing on his machine?

If not, why not?

If its been going on for some time and is still going on, it seems to me that the customer's criticism of you for not providing a lasting repair is not entirely invalid.

Yes we all know that if people really want to get infected on a standard windows machine then our options are limited.

Thats not the same as having no options, and I dont see anywhere in your post that you have explored the possibility of these with the customer.

Excuse my criticism if you have, but you dont mention anything about it, and it is in all respects a service failure having someone come back repeatedly with the same problem without having had an adequate appraisal of his options, and the chance to explore solutions, which, if you dont mind me saying so, are abundantly available.

 

[GoHighVoltage]

Have you discussed using imaging products to back up and restore?
Have you discussed a dedicated machine for web surfing?
Have you discussed a VM running Linux?
Have you discussed VM's at all?
Have you discussed various incremental restore options like Returnil and Commodo?
Have you set up sandboxing on his machine?

If not, why not?

If its been going on for some time and is still going on, it seems to me that the customer's criticism of you for not providing a lasting repair is not entirely invalid.

Yes we all know that if people really want to get infected on a standard windows machine then our options are limited.

Thats not the same as having no options, and I dont see anywhere in your post that you have explored the possibility of these with the customer.

Excuse my criticism if you have, but you dont mention anything about it, and it is in all respects a service failure having someone come back repeatedly with the same problem without having had an adequate appraisal of his options, and the chance to explore solutions, which, if you dont mind me saying so, are abundantly available.

I think this may be a bit extreme, when you are not addressing the actual problem. Most home user situations wouldn't even remotely come close to going through all of the above. The moment you start suggesting all that technical solutions you listed, you will totally lose your home client, they will never understand what is going on, and I am sure they will not want to pay you to fully train them to understand how the items you listed works, etc.

Most of my home user clients that get a virus removed are just fine with a clean up, AV check, and MBAM or SAS. If they have reoccurring problems, then you need to explain/educate them on what causes it. Be up front and honest with them. If you have a report that shows viruses coming from "bad" websites, you need to tell them. There is no shame in this, it is your job.

Offer a simple backup solution, and move on. If they keep getting viruses, and it is because of bad websites, then nothing you install will cure there ignorance. The moment you install stuff they don't fully understand, they will be calling you non-stop with "conflicts" or how do I do this?, or ever since you installed this stuff, I am having a problem with this.. With these type clients, there is no real winning solution.

I have had clients come back a couple times. Once I educate them, and explain what is causing it, and offer simple solutions like creating a "limited" account for web browsing to help, they never have a problem again. Education is key.

 

[ittechsc]

16k Makes some good points. I offer a 30-day warranty on virus removal. If they get re-infection within 30 days I will remove at no additional charge.

I also explain that Infection Protection is like Seat Belts and Air Bags in a vehicle. For the most part they should protect you, but it's not 100%.
Most reasonable customers can understand this and will agree.

It's one thing if you didn't remove the infections properly. In that case, it's important to make it right as if you're charging to remove the infections you better make sure they are actually removed.

Also remember that you don't have to work with everyone. Certain people are just not worth doing business with.

 

[16k_zx81]

I think you are being a bit extreme. Most home user situations wouldn't even remotely come close to going through all of the above. Lets come back down to reality. The moment you start firing off all that crap

I dont really like the tone of your post.

You seem to imply that there is no solution for home users because they are too dumb to learn to use preventative measures adequately.

1. Any home user can learn to use disk imaging. Win7, for example, has it built in. I think the average adult "manage could grasp the concept". Its hardly sophisticated, especially with products like Easus etc in abundance and free.

Can we please take that off the list of "all that crap I fired off"..."that will never work for a (sic) average home user"

2. A dedicated machine for web surfing. Dont know how you figure thats too radical for a home user. A lot of homes have a second or third machine available. Hardly the realm of technical geniuses.

So possibly not "crap". Thanks.

3. We don't know the uses the guy has for the machine (other than the obvious), so a VM running Linux is hardly rocket science. "Click on the icon on your desktop to start the other desktop, then click on the firefox icon"

Really difficult? No.

4. see 3.

5. Comodo and Returnil are not "IT Professional-only" products. If the customer was interested in having a look, trial versions are available, and they have manuals if needed. No PHD required to use either, AFAIK. Or we could just assume outright that the end-user is too lazy or stupid. Thats one way of looking at it.

6. There are plenty of discussions in the community about home users being set up with sandboxing. Again, its an adjustment some people will take on because they are sick of infections. A choice for the customer to make based on quality of information (your reference - 'education'), in consultation with someone who knows what they are talking about. Im just talking about offering choices to customers. Again, not a radical concept I would have thought.

The moment you start firing off all that crap you listed, you will totally lose your home client, they will never understand what is going on, and I am sure they will not want to pay you to fully train them to understand how the items you listed works, etc

Im sorry, but I think you are either misunderstanding what I said, misunderstanding the methods I described, or just radically underestimate the intelligence of people who use PC repair services.

I did not suggest to "fire off all that crap" at anyone. I asked what other options had been explored with the customer.

All Im saying is that the customer has a right to explore options other than paying for a virus removal every six weeks. I would have thought a more robust antivirus solution would be the first step, and after that had failed, it would be time to explore further options to save him time, inconvenience and money. The objective being (as it always should be), quality customer service.

You may want to dispense with the shocked faces and claims of anything other than antivirus "will never work for a average home user", because, to be frank, its simply untrue, and if you dont mind me sayiong so, rather short-sighted.

 

[ATTech]

Why is it that we always say adult websites? Is there any basis to that, or is it something we've just regurgitated through out the years? Can anyone show any statistics that back that feeling up, or is it just society's if you touch yourself, you'll go blind sentiment that pushed us to that conclusion? I think most of us can agree that most infections come from unscrupulous downloads, or java/flash exploits, neither of which show any bias towards adult sites.

 

[GoHighVoltage]

My tone in my post is "fun" and "friendly", this is a forum among computer repair "friends". I guess it is all in how you want to read into it. No harm meant. My apologies, 16K, if you took my post the wrong way, my friend.

Most clients that I have, usually always have older machines with windows XP. Most do not want to upgrade their systems, and most do not have multiple systems in their home. There is clients that are computer savvy, but these clients typically are the ones you never have a problem with viruses, or reoccurring viruses.

The typical home customer, and maybe others can chime in here, have older computers with windows XP, and are "NOT" computer savvy. The average home user that has multiple infections and problems are the ones that are "computer" Uneducated. I don't call these people "DUMB", because they are not. Just like some people only know how to turn a key to start a car, and know nothing about how a car engine operates, these people are "lawyers, Surgeons, etc". They are not dumb, they just do not know about your specialty.

These clients, are the same clients that like "SIMPLE". The moment you stray from "SIMPLE", you will cause confusion, and future issues with them not fully understanding what is going on, or technical jargon.

I have been doing this, like you, for over 21 years. I can read people pretty good, and quickly find a clients limitations, so it is best to come up with a solution that will work for them, and not drive you crazy in the future. Education is key, and can prevent most problems from continuing. If it does, and they are ok with paying you repeatedly, then that is on them.

It really all depends on the client themselves. Which is why I think in this particular situation, you need to Address the actual problem with the customer, and educate them. This would be best.

Without Educating the client, and telling him what is causing it, it would be as ineffective as putting a bandaid on a cut, and the client go right back playing with razor blades.

If the client is very computer savvy, your suggestions are an excellent choice. Typically the computer savvy type clients, once you explain what not to do, they rarely ever have issues again.



Good luck! Cheers.

 

[venist]

I can actually vouch for the idea of running a VM. I have an elderly client who likes to use hacks for an online poker game. He would have us come over for an onsite to clean out the computer every so often and also have a reformat done once a year on his machines. But after messing around on teamviewer with the wrong people his computer was screwed over. I took the opportunity to recommend a VM to keep him safe and also upgraded him to 8GB of ram. After the job was done he went back to doing what I recommended not doing BUT its all in the VM now and cannot hurt the physical machine.

On a plus note, while dropping the machine off to set it up at his house and educate him on how to use the VM I sold him a slot for a security cam install around his house. So use that education time to your advantage you never know what added bonuses you may receive just for taking a little extra time out.

 

[Cornerstone Technologies]

Edited for clarity.

 

[GoHighVoltage]

I am glad everyone has some great advice and responses. I do think the first thing in this situation is to let the client know what is actually causing the problems, and then move on to other recommendations.